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Saab 93 - nearing the end of the road

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#121 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 05:39 PM

Tried putting a jumper cable between the engine block and battery negative terminal? Makes a nice chunky ground path.

 

 

I don't know if I said it earlier but check the alternator is earthing to the engine correctly too. I had that once years ago & took me ages to find.

 

 

Did all this back in March when the problem first appeared, cleaning up and adding an extra earthing strap between body and engine block did fix the problem. My jump leads are on loan at the moment to my brother, who quite conveniently lives 80 miles away. I'm going to try adding another strap direct from alternator exterior to a nearby grounding point, along with a chunky cable between B+ and battery +ve.

 

Only things on that main positive feed line are alternator, starter, EMU and battery. Going to disconnect each one in turn and see if any resistance along the cable changes. If this makes sod all difference then it's pull out each of the many millions of fuses isolating a circuit at a time to see if there is a change in voltage.

 

Don't have any more car tinker time this evening as have guests for dinner who are due any minute and I'm still yet to get showered.


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#122 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 06:22 PM

Bollocky bollock fuck shitbags.

 

Trying to track down this loss of voltage between the alternator is doing my nut in. Borrowed a set of jump leads to test for dodgy earths.

 

Earthed the engine direct to battery. 12.4v

Earthed the alternator direct to battery. 12.4v

Did the same of the above to the chassis with a known good earth point. 12.4v

 

Earthed alternator to engine. 12.4v

 

Direct alternator feed B+ to battery +ve. 12.4v

 

Removed battery and its mounting box, traced the battery cables to where they distribute around the engine bay. Everywhere had good continuity.

 

Front bumper off, unplugged engine control box connectors, so I could trace the L terminal connecter at the alternator, eventually found it - high resistance. Waggled wire at alternator, and resistance dropped. As the eyelet connector was in good order I nipped back the wire a couple of mil at a time until I found a break. New eye terminal. 13.1v at the battery with the engine running. Superb.

 

So I thought.

 

Went for a drive. Got diesel, came home again. 20 yards from my house dashboard goes haywire and no charge light on again. 11.9v at the battery, and 14.1 at the alternator B+

 

Save from pulling the fuse from each circuit in turn and seeing if that makes a difference or getting another verdict on the condition of the battery, I'm pulling my hair out.

 

Just went out to see if car starts - battery is now flat. A fucked battery or a faulty component really does seem the most likely culprit.


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#123 OFFLINE   jonathan_dyane

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 06:43 AM

Can't you just run a nice new wire between the battery and alternator?

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#124 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 07:34 AM

Can't you just run a nice new wire between the battery and alternator?


That’s my next job which I’ll probably do tomorrow morning once I’ve got the battery fully charged and retested.
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Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#125 OFFLINE   Finlandia

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 01:43 PM

Does the car have a "Battery Main Switch" attached to the positive terminal? Black box with a yellow reset button, meant to cut power in a collision. Not all cars have them, but corrosion causes high resistance in the main battery - solenoid cable. They're not cheap new, but can be easily bypassed if desired. Also check all the fusible links/ Maxi fuses corrosion can cause all sorts of excitement too.

 

More

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https://www.saabcent...ad.php?t=252100



#126 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 04:09 PM

Does the car have a "Battery Main Switch" attached to the positive terminal?

 

 

 

Unless it's hidden away in a fuse box or something, there's nothing that looks like a switch on the +ve battery terminal, I'll take a photo later on. It's just got a battery terminal clamp with 3 wires coming out of it. Next to this there is a push switch with thin wires coming out of it. I think it's something to do with the alarm, but I will check the book of I have checked the 4 in-line fuses on the side of the battery box, one was extremely corroded so gave it a clean with some sandpaper and it now has continuity.

 

The maxifuses in the engine compartment fuse box are all good - tested them this afternoon after I whipped the battery out to charge it. All the minibuses in the engine compartment fuse box are also good. Not tested any relays, and I've yet to go through all those in the boot and passenger door fuseboxes.

 

That's about as far as I got today. It's threatening to rain, I'm tired and hungry.


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#127 OFFLINE   Finlandia

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 05:50 PM

Switch is really obvious, part of positive terminal, so you wouldn't miss it. Looks like this

https://www.eeuropar...witch-12791308/

 

Push switch will be the alarm bonnet switch.

 

Certainly sounds like a high resistance in either the main earth cable or the main battery- solenoid- alternator cable. If the terminals are all clean, then is it the actual cables and/or terminal crimps themselves?

 

Not that it helps you, but last week I was asked to look at a SAAB that wouldn't turn over. The negative lead looked OK, but swapped it for one off another car & it fired up straight away. Corrosion in one of the crimps?

 

Can't remember how the later 9-3s cables split at the battery, but I have seen a few older SAABs (c900 & 9000) where two cables are crimped into the battery terminal, and corrosion in the crimp itself caused problems. Also at the solenoid where the ring is crimped into the middle of the red cable, then sleeved, so difficult to see the corrosion.



#128 OFFLINE   Finlandia

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 11:10 AM

I've re-read the whole thread, and looking at the picture in post #15 you don't have the main switch. Plunger next to + terminal is indeed the alarm/bonnet switch.

 

You look to have two cable terminals bolted to the + terminal. One will go to the fusebox main terminal, other (thicker?) to the solenoid and then alternator. The wiring diagram from SAAB's WIS that SIC posted #103 shows a 25mm cable from battery to solenoid, and 16mm solenoid to alternator. Voltage (drop) checks you've done suggest a possible break  or resistance in one of these cables, which from memory are part of the engine main loom, not separate cables. 

 

Can you check voltages at the alternator, solenoid and battery, and any differences between the three? Differences may help suggest where a possible break is?

 

Alternatively, can you bypass either both leads, or each one in turn, with either a jump lead or (better) a proper battery cable? Like this Halfords one.

https://www.halfords...y-cable-76cm-30

 

SIC's also posted from WIS about earths, and in post 37 you seem to have had some success with a replacement body-engine earth. From the battery negative terminal there should be one cable to the engine earth (G25 in SAAB speak), and one to the main body earth (G2) on the inner wing. There should also be a third earth cable (SAAB "redundant") between the body & gearbox. Has the engine or 'box been out or in bits and one of the earths left off? Or broken/dirty?

 

Looking again at SIC's wiring diagram, the alternator connects to the warning light via the "control module" and the I-bus & P-bus. This is way beyond my knowledge, and I'd usually refer you to a local SAAB specialist with Tech2. I'm in Lancashire, so not local at all...

 

Hope this helps.

 

I could tell you the tale of coming back to an automatic c900 in a car park many years ago. The starter was turning over with the car locked & key in my hand.  Long story short, but the main alternator-solenoid cable (permanent live) ran in the loom next to the ignition switch-solenoid cable, round the back if the turbocharger and the loom had been mis-routed too close to the turbo, cables had melted, and the starter was turning (locked in park fortunately). Full SAAB service history FTW. 


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#129 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 11:58 AM

Think I've found the issue. I'll get a second opinion at the West Sussex chod assembly this afternoon.


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#130 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 04:51 PM

Many thanks for this Finlandia, Stanky very kindly plugged his box of tricks into the ODB port and this revealed a couple of electrical faults, one of which was "Open circuit or short circuit on A/C system." removed the relay and this made no difference so some investigations to do here. Going to whip the engine bay fuse box out to have a look and do some poking around.

 

Also when I put the battery back on this lunchtime, I checked the security of the alternator connections. The B+ lug which was tight the other day was now slightly loose. Nipped the nut up finger tight, felt a little resistance, and then it slipped, so I think there is a knackered thread on this terminal. Couple of new nuts and a shake proof washer or 2 should sort this. Kill or cure. If it makes no difference I'll run another lead direct from Alternator to battery (I hope 16A cable should be sufficient), then again for £5.69 that's probably better than sodding about making one. Might be able to get this done tomorrow.

 

I will in due course check the solenoid terminals for any voltage drop. 

 

Stanky, many thanks for plugging your machine in at the gathering this afternoon. Gives me a lead on what to check for next time I get tinker time, or run out of electricity again. If you need a hand with anything please let me know.


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Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#131 OFFLINE   Stanky

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:04 PM

No problem at all DD, glad it helped at least narrow things down a bit. Though odd that the issue didn't follow the relay when we swapped them around.

 

If you need use of the delphi thingy again just shout, happy to pop over as required.


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2003 Toyota Yaris

2004 SAAB 9-3

1998 Toyota Celica ST

 

1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)

198? Jago Geep (Now resideing chez red5)

368728.png

 

Yeah yeah, another blog. Why I use silly hardware to mine cryptocurrency: https://piminer.home.blog/


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#132 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:17 PM

I think the issue may be in the fuse box or wiring to the pump. Given it more thinking this evening and with "Open Circuit or short" could be the relay low current side isn't going to earth when it gets a 12v feed so the relay doesn't click on, especially as when the high current side was bridged with wire the compressor started up.

 

Going to get a handful of M8 nuts and suitable shake proof washers tomorrow and a generic battery lead just to go direct from alt to battery. Hopefully that will restore reliability and chargeables. Will go a bit belt and braces. Will still check the voltage at the starter solenoid terminal as the drop could be between the alternator and solenoid.

 

The MAF sensor could be a cause of the smoke, along with the shagged swirl flaps. Just wish the latter wasn't a manifold off job, as I hate doing cambelts even on simple engines like Pintos.


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#133 OFFLINE   3VOM

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:10 AM

If it makes no difference I'll run another lead direct from Alternator to battery (I hope 16A cable should be sufficient), then again for £5.69 that's probably better than sodding about making one. Might be able to get this done tomorrow..

If you mean a second cable OK, but if you mean a replacement then 16A will be too small.


What's the retail on one of those plumbed in fire extinguisher systems?


#134 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:40 AM

It will be an additional cable to keep the other ones company and reduce the load off them


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#135 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 03:02 PM

Just an update now I have fixed the charging system with a kwalitee* repair. No EML on either for a while now having checked over the MAF sensor wiring and cleaning the connections. Still not taken over 50 miles in a single run yet so still time for it to come on and bugger up my journey.

 

List of jobs:

  1. Limp mode - faulty accelerator pedal? Also read somewhere it could be swirl flaps - Hasn't come on for a while.
  2. Fault with MAF sensor circuit - wiring from this in loom hasn't been hacked and appears not to have any breaks. Will order new one.
  3. Excessive smoke - clean the manifold, EGR & turbo? Could also be MAF sensor
  4. Headlamp washer jets piss water everywhere when washer reservoir is full - inline valve for pipe has arrived, fitting this afternoon (subject to weather)
  5. Ditchfinder rear tyre.
  6. Dashboard mounted cupholder is broken (this is high on the wife's priorities, not mine, but worth mentioning)
  7. Few bits of interior trim missing.
  8. Sluggish starting, though possibly caused by not having had a good run for at least a month now and glow plugs are kaput.
  9. Air Con buggered - Stanky's magic box diagnosed an open circuit on the wiring, now just to find where (it's not the relay). Shorting high current side of the relay socket makes air-con switch on and work quite nicely.
  10. Exhaust is boomy when hot - coming from exhaust manifold where swirl flap isn't seating properly.
  11. Need to find which ABS sensor is causing the system to register a fault every now and then.

 

One question I do need to ask - will removing the swirl flaps, cleaning out the EGR & manifold reduce the smoke, especially when cold?

 

I do really like this car and want to keep if at all possible (or replace with another). When it works properly, it does give me many smiles per mile, but in a different way to a chuckable little car like a 205 or a Mini.


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Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#136 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 09:13 PM

EML light came on today. I put £20 of weasel in the tank after work and drove to Southampton and back just to road test her. 60 miles in before we got limp home mode. Before this we had a few kangaroo moments before the light came on.

 

This sounds very much dieing MAF sensor to me, so that's defo next thing to buy.

 

The run did it some good though. Did a massive regeneration on the journey down, to the point of proper glowing smuts coming out the tailpipe. Then NO SMOKE. none at all even making the turbo spool up under load in too high a gear. WIN.

 

Still need to sort out the flap problem, unless I win Cavcrafts 107


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#137 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 09:15 PM

I'd read the codes before buying parts to throw at it. Cheapo code readers are so cheap these days its daft not too


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#138 OFFLINE   Stanky

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 09:18 PM

No MAF related codes came out when we ran it through my Delphi a few weeks ago - at least I don;t think any did. There were a couple of codes, but none engine-related.

 

DD, if you're over this way again give me a shout - more than happy to plug it in again and see what its telling us now!


  • dozeydustman likes this

2003 Toyota Yaris

2004 SAAB 9-3

1998 Toyota Celica ST

 

1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)

198? Jago Geep (Now resideing chez red5)

368728.png

 

Yeah yeah, another blog. Why I use silly hardware to mine cryptocurrency: https://piminer.home.blog/


#139 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 09:20 PM

My code reader was under £5 & gets engine codes ok off my Saab, probably cheaper than driving to Stanky!


Opinions expressed are those of this cunt, not any other cunt. They do not represent the views of those responsible for this forum.
Like any true Englishman I'm never unintentionally rude. If you're offended by this post, good as that is what was my intention.

 

Champion cunt in the cunt count 2018.


#140 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 09:35 PM

I'd read the codes before buying parts to throw at it. Cheapo code readers so cheap these days its daft not too

 

 

Stanky did that for me at the Sussex meet up last month. They were:

 

ABS sensor intermittent fault x2 - think it's both rears.

Something intermittent fault.

Short or open circuit air-con circuit

 

I've bought 2 cheap code readers in the last few months that have been DOA. Thankfully I can clear the EML by removing the warning light wire from the alternator then going for a 10 minute drive.

 

 

No MAF related codes came out when we ran it through my Delphi a few weeks ago - at least I don;t think any did. There were a couple of codes, but none engine-related.

 

DD, if you're over this way again give me a shout - more than happy to plug it in again and see what its telling us now!

 

 

There were 4 faults altogether, I can't remember the 4th one though! Got a lot on for the next couple of weeks or so but when I got a spare afternoon or something I'll drop you a line  :grinning-smiley-043:

 

There's an 08 plate Vector Sport Wagon TiD in a local breakers and they've said I can have the MAF sensor for a tenner. It's a rear collision write off - wondering how much he'd take for the whole engine as it's only got 93k on the dial by all accounts.

 

Did you see my recommendations re: home-brew on the what are you drinking thread?


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#141 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 09:42 PM

It'll have stored a new code now the light is back on, that's why I said read them again. You might be right on the fault, but it helps prevent guessing.

 

I've got https://www.ebay.co....DQAAOSwhHFbMI72 although mine is an earlier version (which SiC said is better). Links to an app on my phone


Opinions expressed are those of this cunt, not any other cunt. They do not represent the views of those responsible for this forum.
Like any true Englishman I'm never unintentionally rude. If you're offended by this post, good as that is what was my intention.

 

Champion cunt in the cunt count 2018.


#142 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 10:05 PM

It'll have stored a new code now the light is back on, that's why I said read them again. You might be right on the fault, but it helps prevent guessing.

 

I've got https://www.ebay.co....DQAAOSwhHFbMI72 although mine is an earlier version (which SiC said is better). Links to an app on my phone

 

 

Possibly a new code, but the symptoms are the same as when it came on beforehand - a bit of a cough & splutter, some kangarooing, go like shit off a shovel, then limp mode after 15 mins. Will try this reader, what app do you use for it? And does it connect to a Sinclair Spectrum 48k?

 

Meanwhile, on Bookface marketplace, there's a nice looking Hyundai Matrix locally by the look of things for a couple hundred quid. I need a car with the indicator on the correct side of the wheel, fed up with putting the wipers on all the time.


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#143 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 10:06 PM

I've got an app called 'piston' on my phone it connects via bluetooth


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Opinions expressed are those of this cunt, not any other cunt. They do not represent the views of those responsible for this forum.
Like any true Englishman I'm never unintentionally rude. If you're offended by this post, good as that is what was my intention.

 

Champion cunt in the cunt count 2018.


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#144 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 10:11 PM

I've got an app called 'piston' on my phone it connects via bluetooth

 

 

Nothing for the spectrum then?  :shock: It's as advanced as my computer skills get TBH


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Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#145 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 07:50 PM

Since my last post I've had 3 months of trouble-free motoring with this old heap, albeit with the ABS & ESP fault lights on, until Xmas eve.

 

Monday evening, driving along the M26 to the Wrotham hill turn off en-route to visit family, ABS & ESP lights went off, EML light came back on and limp mode was enabled. It's also done 4 DPF regens in the last 2 weeks, which to me seems excessive given the DPF is about a year old and it only gets used for the family's long runs.

 

I have asked the fitter at work if he has any ideas why one fault should clear and immediately a new one develops. He said unless coincidental, then the ECU is probably shot. He's going to read the codes for me tomorrow if he doesn't have too many breakdowns and defects to attend to. Given the occasional mechanical knock I'm going to cut my losses with this car at MoT time. Shame, as until I had the Alternator incident a year ago it was completely reliable.

 

There'll be plenty* of roffles between now and then I should imagine. 


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#146 OFFLINE   Stanky

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 10:01 AM

Sorry to hear that DD, when's the MOT due? Have you got long to sort out an alternative? 

 

Let me know if it is being bridged and you're open to the idea of picking some bits off, I need a few little things and would be happy to exchange beer tokens for them if you're amiable to the idea

 

(also sorry to sound like a vulture)


2003 Toyota Yaris

2004 SAAB 9-3

1998 Toyota Celica ST

 

1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)

198? Jago Geep (Now resideing chez red5)

368728.png

 

Yeah yeah, another blog. Why I use silly hardware to mine cryptocurrency: https://piminer.home.blog/


#147 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:28 PM

MoT is up in early May, so it gives me plenty of time to find something that is a little more stepdaughter insurable. I still have a pushbike to get to work, or a pair of working legs. Hoping a smoll vehicle with a smoll engine comes up on here or locally for a decent price.

 

Fitter plugged his reader into it and it came up with 19 different codes, cleared them all, 8 came up on restart, cleared them, and there are still about 4 that won't clear. And I had limp mode again on way home from work.

 

I'll let you know nearer the time before I get rid of it, see if you still need anything, or indeed the entire car for spares.

 

Time to transfer the plate beckons....


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster


#148 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:21 PM

Which 9-3 is it, the 2005 onwards type?


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Offended? Oh dear. What a shame. Piss off.

 

 


#149 OFFLINE   dozeydustman

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 03:05 PM

Yes RBJ, it's a nov 2005 model. 2006 model year I think. For what it'll cost to get back to good and proper, I can get another one. There are tonnes of later Saabs round here in Chichester.


Dream shite.

Talbot Sunbeam - Shove-it - Viva HC - Samba - Triumph Dolly - Triumph 2000 - Avenger - Pug 205 with a suitcase engine - AEC Mammoth Major - Hillman Hunter - Allegro - another Simca would be nice as well - Pug 309 with a Poissy engine - Routemaster






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