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MOT Changes 2018


The Moog

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Surely a 555 timer would be the cheapest option if you wanted to add circuitry

555 timer requires more parts to get working and less configurable compared to something like a Atmel ATTiny. If you can find a regulated 3.3v-5v supply on the back of a dash, that's all it needs to run.

 

Or maybe just fix the fucking thing ? Jeez !

Oh yes definitely if it can be reasonably easily. However some cars want to defy having their EML off easily or cheaply.

 

I can personally think of an experience with a 2004 Golf 1.6 FSI with a dodgy downstream special wideband sensor. It used it so it could run the engine in an ultra lean stratified burning mode. The sensor picked up the accumulation of NOX in the Catalytic converter and when it got to a certain point, it would change its operating mode to conventional homogeneous lean for a bit to flush out the cat. It only operated in that lean burn condition for short and very well limited conditions - mostly crusing.

 

Most cars of that era didn't do that and quite easily met emissions. The Golf would still be conformant to the standards even if it didn't enter this fuel saving stratified lean burn mode.

 

Because of this NOx build up in the cat, it used a special calibrated downstream sensor - replacement cost ~£500. If the NOx monitoring aspect failed, it still run the engine to emissions (just without the ultra lean burn fuel saving mode) but throws up the EML. It didn't even save that much fuel and 2 years or so later, VAG ditched the stratified lean burn on the engine.

 

So a £500 part would now need changing just to satisfy the man from the ministry, while not helping reduce emissions.

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Fault codes dont always tell you which part to change. Need to be diagnosed properly . Quick plug ins are not diagnostics. The only one thats a pita is the P0420 cat efficiency code which jap cars love to flag up . Still as clean as a pin on the emissions test but cat isnt quite as good as it should be. However it will take 50 odd miles to come back on so just reset before test. 

 

When i was learning my old boss would always say "prove it " when I said a part was faulty . 

How would you go about diagnosing a fault that was throwing up an EML without using the fault codes?  Other than trial and error obvs?

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How would you go about diagnosing a fault that was throwing up an EML without using the fault codes?  Other than trial and error obvs?

 

Look at live data and see whats out of spec but eml without a fault code is usually an internal ecu error , wiring/ bulb holder for the light ( some twat tried to bypass and fucked it up) or you are using the wrong scan tool. 

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I've heard* that you can wire up the EML to the oil pressure light which of course goes off when the engine started and reaches oil pressure?

Not condoning such activities of course but truthfully I suspect it has* happened in the past.

 

I did hear**once that someone sorted his bas/ESP lamp on his Merc to the abs lamp to pass the last ten years of Mots due to a stupid intermittent fault that never affected it's driving but again, it's all hearsay.

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Look at live data and see whats out of spec but eml without a fault code is usually an internal ecu error , wiring/ bulb holder for the light ( some twat tried to bypass and fucked it up) or you are using the wrong scan tool.

A lot of times people replace sensors with the cheapest shittest ECP crap and wonder why the fault reappears a few weeks/days later.

 

I find often for lambdas etc that using a second hand or even a cut and shut OEM one yields far better results than buying a cheap shit one.

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Modern car lectrics are shit

 

Last batch of eml and limp mode stuff on the Jaaaaag was down to a fucked battery, replaced it, topped it up to 12.6v and found that one upstream lambda was dead. fixed and mot paaased

 

I have a bluetooth ODB realtime sender. and an app on my phone to receive the data, helps understand whether things are within spec

 

egr is going to be an irritant to many landie owners

 

as will be oil leak

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The focus EML light comes on occasionally, its due to an indifference between the O2 sensor readings, just slightly out of spec, the car passes the emissions and runs perfect, like hell am I going to go swapping bits until the light goes out. Its a £500 car... I'll just knock the lamp out the night before the test, usually stops out for at least 2-3 weeks.

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Agree with all that.  Use OEM sensors or branded even secondhand.  Look at live data.  Always.  I use Opcom and it will download data to a spreadsheet so that the car is being data logged.  You can see the fuel trims going up and down.  

 

My old Zafira, when I registers a fault code, will then register a load of others.  So when the MAF sensor went, I had auto gearbox codes, ABS light on, all sorts.  Ignore the lot and concentrate on the data.

 

I'm an amateur, total, but been interesting learning about it.  Shed loads on you tube.

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Wont people just scrap low value cars if the eml is on with a vauge emissions related code?

 

*Sucks through teeth* well sir, it might be the cat, might be you 02 sensors, or your maf, or something else. Parts and labour is probably come out at more than the cars worth and I still cant garuntee that the light will go out.

 

Best of scraping it m8

 

Unfortunately this seems to be the unwritten intention.  I don't have any problem with the other changes (and I also admit to not being the most fastidious with brake fluid changes) but the eml light rule would appear to be just another ruse to get old cars off the road.  Fortunately there are old cars and older cars. and mine fall into the latter category and have no idea what an EML is.

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Doubt it somehow. Scrap car or just knock EML out for test?

 

Probably a better use of time and money would be failing these cocks that drive about with stretched tyres and these self proclaimed 'dirty diesel' brigade that fuck about with the ECU to create plumes of smoke on boost. Or removed the plate and put it in the window to avoid anpr.

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Doubt it somehow. Scrap car or just knock EML out for test?

 

Probably a better use of time and money would be failing these cocks that drive about with stretched tyres and these self proclaimed 'dirty diesel' brigade that fuck about with the ECU to create plumes of smoke on boost. Or removed the plate and put it in the window to avoid anpr.

The latter two things would fail the MOT now never mind from May

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Doubt it somehow. Scrap car or just knock EML out for test?

 

Probably a better use of time and money would be failing these cocks that drive about with stretched tyres and these self proclaimed 'dirty diesel' brigade that fuck about with the ECU to create plumes of smoke on boost. Or removed the plate and put it in the window to avoid anpr.

 

Totally agree with paragraph 2.  And the time and money spent doing it doesn't just have to mean at MOT.

 

Not always possible (by a long chalk) to get an EML to stay out long enough to have confidence it will survive the MOT.  Plus many people won't even think/know it's an option; as WW's post suggests they'll just take the garage's advice.

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Balls...will need to move finding a new ECU for the Lada up the list then.  The check engine output is actually dead on the ECU so it never lights.  Have done quite a bit of reverse engineering and ascertained that the offending transistor is buried within a custom chip, so it's not a repairable fault.  New ECU time...

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Unfortunately this seems to be the unwritten intention.  I don't have any problem with the other changes (and I also admit to not being the most fastidious with brake fluid changes) but the eml light rule would appear to be just another ruse to get old cars off the road.  Fortunately there are old cars and older cars. and mine fall into the latter category and have no idea what an EML is.

 

I would imagine it could spell the death knell for low value cars for people that arent attached to them.

 

Garages arent going to guarantee that a £30 will fix the issues (rightly so) and will often try to give a worse case scenario so that when it is less than that they look good. 

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I hope they do, I'll happily give £150 for an otherwise running fine Focus with the EML on.

 

If you are that stupid to chuck it away without thinking your way round it, theres absolutely no hope for you. I'd suggest remaining seated in it when they load it into the baler.

 

You obviously haven't met 99% of modern society then

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I would imagine it could spell the death knell for low value cars for people that arent attached to them.

 

Garages arent going to guarantee that a £30 will fix the issues (rightly so) and will often try to give a worse case scenario so that when it is less than that they look good. 

 

I wasn't having a dig at garages; obviously they can't guarantee anything.  They will offer suitable advice and as you (and WW) say the end result will be the customer not risking the worse case result.  It's the pointless inclusion of it in the MOT which will lead to this occurring which I am criticising.

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I wasn't having a dig at garages; obviously they can't guarantee anything.  .

 

Nor me. They cant win sometimes, quote the top figure and get accused of quoting stupid prices; quote lowest price and get complaints about being over charged 

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Surely a 555 timer would be the cheapest option if you wanted to add circuitry

 

That's exactly what I was thinking - the good old 555 timer chip, 1001 uses! Much used by electronics magazines back in the day. Takes me back to college days. 

 

If actually fixing the problem is not an option (difficulty/expense etc)) then this would be easy to do, trigger the timer to start when switching on the ignition and switch on the MIL bulb for a specified time (about 5 secs?) then reset & bulb switches off. 

 

Not an issue for me as none of mine have such a modern thing!

 

 

As for brake fluid, I personally hate having dirty fluid &/or a dirty reservoir so don't have a problem with this. As others have said, I think it's more of a prompt for people to think about doing something about it rather than ignoring it. 

 

Checking oil leaks is going to be a challenge in many cars esp diesels with the extent & size of undertrays many have as I'm sure they won't be removing them. 

 

I don't know about anyone else but I'd rather see a test that cracked down on the major safety related stuff and alot less on the silly bits and pieces the MoT now seems to be hung up with. 

 

 

Also - not been across the changes but is the threatened 40 year old exemption coming in? (or as I've seen elsewhere - is it pre 1970?).

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p01lytpk.jpg

 

I say, there's a chap on the phone talking about engine management lamps Mr.Clomondley-Warner.

 

What is the vehicle concerned?

 

I can't pronounce it, some Johnny Foreigner make if you ask me.

 

In that case Grayson, it is to be failed and scrapped immediately. Tell that chap to buy an Austin. 

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don't know about anyone else but I'd rather see a test that cracked down on the major safety related stuff and alot less on the silly bits and pieces the MoT now seems to be hung up with.

 

Also - not been across the changes but is the threatened 40 year old exemption coming in? (or as I've seen elsewhere - is it pre 1970?).

 

40 year exemption is unfortunately a fact with effect from 20th May.

 

I agree with your sentiment about MOT mission creep though.

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While I appreciate some will be in favour of this, personally,I'm not, I was fairly happy enough to wear the pre-1960 exemption but this 40 year one (presume it's a rolling date?) is fundamentally a bad idea.

 

Why? Because:

1) It will be used as a weapon to restrict usage  - just look at London emissions zones for a taste of this. The wheres and indeed the whens of where we can use 'Old cars' will then be under scrutiny which I'm not happy with. 

 

2) The first accident with which an exempt car is involved in that causes loss of life/maiming - whether it was their fault or not - will be seized on by the hysterical usual suspects in the Daily Fail/Daily Excuse readership who will immediately loudly demand a ban on anything more than ten years old.

 

3) Insurance companies will start to either up their rates on these cars or demand garage bills etc to prove maintenance. Mind you, getting an MoT in the first place would be easier and cheaper so defeating the exemption! 

 

4) What's the problem with getting an MoT anyway? FFS it's not that difficult to pass one, if the vehicle is so shit it can't meet the standard then either fix/renovate it or move it on or scrap it. Nothing's for free in this life, you have to work at it, if you CBA to get your old car to standard then here's an idea - buy a newer one and stop fucking up the old car hobby for the rest of us. 

 

Sorry if this last comment is unpopular but it needs saying (probably not to most on here to be fair) and selfishly, I want to continue jacking with old stuff as I enjoy it!

 

Rant ends.

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I hope they do, I'll happily give £150 for an otherwise running fine Focus with the EML on.

 

If you are that stupid to chuck it away without thinking your way round it, theres absolutely no hope for you. I'd suggest remaining seated in it when they load it into the baler.

 

Aye, thats brilliant. Tell that to the single mother with an old focus worth £400. All she needs to do is become proficient in auto electrics, buy a few hundred quids worth of tools and parts and then just fix it. :roll:

 

Jesus, I see this time and again on this site....just because you and others on here can fix stuff. Remember that we are the tiny, TINY exception and 99.999% of folk cant diagnose and repair an EML light problem, and probably half of those dont even know how to open the fucking bonnet. These people are all at the absolute mercy of whatever garage they take the car to, where very often it plays out as someone said above..." yeah, we can change the sensors, but there is no guarantee that will work, then it will likely need a new cat which will probably sort it, maybe,  but again no guarantee."

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This thread is rambling about a bit, but I guess that's ok.

 

I lived away from home recently for a while, and was next door to a garage.  Seemed to me that all he wanted to do was service cars, change oil and filters and charge something generally reasonable for it.  He had plenty of work, so was happy enough.  Whenever anyone took anything complicated in, and I don't mean that complicated, he'd suggest that it wasn't worth fixing and scrap it.  OK, I am generalising, but I could see his point of view.  Servicing is so easy, and if you have enough work to pay the bills, why do anything else?  

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