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How Much! What the hell is paint made from?


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#31 OFFLINE   chaseracer

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:24 PM

How does standard one cost gloss paint stand up to being on a vehicle?

Asking for a friend who also has a battered van, like ;)

 

A mate used to 'refresh' his 2CV van in this way every couple of years, using Dulux and a roller.  Looked fine, from 10ft away.  Which is more than good enough...


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#32 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:27 PM

Thinking on its a funny old thing how we spend so much time and money over car paint. We overthink it it really. Because it was painted with solvent paint or waterbased we assume we have to follow suit.

A car is made of metal.any metal paint can paint a car but we pay for the good car stuff

Yet we paint our doors,gates,garage doors,skirtings and window sills with Dulux!

Eitherway it still needs the prep but do we really have to use the fancypants paint?


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#33 OFFLINE   tooSavvy

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:28 PM

ToMM© has a nice 'gifferesque' patina...

Several dings have been rubbed and sprayed with nonmatching shade of BlooMet.

I'm sure the rear 3/4 are fairly pro resprayed, but no wobb I can find.

It kinda makes me feel less agitated by the local scum who (seemingly) manage to cut 'belt stud' torville+dean circular scratches all over the doors and flanks... As if giving a biker-girl a good sausage :(

F...F...S... :( :(


Ah well...

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#34 OFFLINE   Captain Furious

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:30 PM

Its one of things you have to either be all in or all out ie go all in on an immaculate paint job or rattle can it on your drive and don't give any fucks.  Its one of the primary reasons I sold my 205 GTi, even if I could have fixed all its mechanical gremlins (I couldn't, because it was being a right twat) it really needed a full respray which, even on a car as small as that, i'd been quoted £2k "m8s r8s" 

 

I just didn't love it that much.


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#35 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:33 PM

I've paid for a cheap respray before. I would not recommend it at all.
It looked ok for about a year, after that it started to micro blister, react, a few areas even peeled and the whole thing didn't wear well and quickly began to look a right mess. Don't do it! All that will end up happening is you'll pay for a cheap job then in a year or two you'll end up forking out again to both put the old job right and then get new put on again.

Personally I've got no problem spending good money on a high end paint job to get a great long lasting finish but I appreciate not everyone is able to do that.
So,
If you simply don't want a top notch finish then I'd strip it down and prep and prime the car myself. Then spend a bit on some quality coach paints (or similar) and good quality brushes. Paint the car then once it's dry and hardened go nuts wet flatting it back until it's smooth and flat then give it a really good polish up.
Loads of people used to do it with really old cars and it always looks the part without being a show winning type finish. Solid colour paint should be even easier.
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#36 OFFLINE   HillmanImp

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:38 PM

I took an Imp for a respray in 1996. Not bare metal but they did all the prep, removed all the trim/windows, levelling and filling all the imperfections etc and it cost me £550. Got a couple of cars that I need to paint at the mo but can't justify the amount I need to stump up.

 

Signed up to do the spraying course at Leeds uni a few times but it always got cancelled due to lack of uptake.

 

Have been wanting to give it a crack for some time but life keeps taking over. Prep wise, my plan is to follow the advice of Mick and Keith and paint it black to show up any imperfections, get them all sorted and then paint it the colour I want.

 

Or

 

I will just get a loan and pay some other fecker to do it. After all, the value of my cars is so much now compared to when I bought them the respray can be sort of soaked up by the resale value....if I ever sold them.


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#37 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:54 PM

Just a thought but the car was Silver I have thought of Smoke Grey?

Grey seems to be making a comeback and it would be like a non metalic relation to the original colour ;)

Its either Grey or Blue as the interior is very Blueeeeeee and not much else works with it :(


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#38 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:56 PM

How does standard one cost gloss paint stand up to being on a vehicle?

Asking for a friend who also has a battered van, like ;)

My Volvo had a bottom half paintjob in one coat gloss about 10 years ago.  It was in primer when I bought it and the gloss was slapped on there as a temporary measure to protect it.  It's still there and has stood up pretty well considering.


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#39 OFFLINE   chaseracer

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:20 PM

Thinking on its a funny old thing how we spend so much time and money over car paint. We overthink it it really. Because it was painted with solvent paint or waterbased we assume we have to follow suit.

A car is made of metal.any metal paint can paint a car but we pay for the good car stuff

Yet we paint our doors,gates,garage doors,skirtings and window sills with Dulux!

Eitherway it still needs the prep but do we really have to use the fancypants paint?

 

Nope.

 

;)


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2003 Citroen Berlingo 2.0HDi - buggering on regardless
1995 Peugeot 205 Inca 1.7D - working
1982 Citroen Dyane 6 - hiding...

AS Midland Massiv - in chod we rust...


#40 OFFLINE   Datsuncog

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:23 PM

Red oxide primer?

 

Capri 1 red oxide.jpg

 

primers-gmc-truck.jpg

 

VW sc3n3 connotations aside, I kinda like the look... and can be done on the cheap with rattlecans or a basic spraygun. A friend did his MX5 in this manner, and it looked surprisingly good. I believe it cost him all of £20 for the paint, and the spray gear was borrowed.

 

 


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#41 OFFLINE   eddyramrod

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

Here's a thought Jo... whatever you decide to do about the paint, I realise you'll be doing any DIY element (including actual painting) outside on your driveway, so DO NOT ATTEMPT BETWEEN SEPTEMBER AND APRIL!  In fact if you can take a couple of weeks off in July that would most likely be the best time to do the whole lot.  Of course the moment you make that decision, it'll do nothing but rain until you're back at work, but you know....

Practice on a wall, gate or something to get a good brush technique, then go and look at the colours available in B&Q (other outlets are available) and pick the one you like.  Choose a weekend, or preferably a week, when there's no rain due and it'll be warm even overnight.  Give the entire car a light rubdown using your hands to feel for imperfections.  Take off any brightwork that's relatively easy to remove, mask up the rest and the windows and lights, and be prepared for a happy day of brushing.  Then don't touch for 24 hours.  After that, cast a critical eye over the finish and if you think it needs to be redone, redo it.  It'll take patience but should turn out to be quite satisfying.

Then transfer the skills to your newly-amassed collection of models!


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#42 OFFLINE   Felly Magic

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:58 PM

In my miss spent youth, I paid £750 for a respray of my MG Maestro, which was going reddish brown instead of black, got the car back filthy inside and within a couple of months the door bottoms were going rusty again, so I sacked the fucker off, that was a cheapo job 20 years ago. As many have said, it all boils down to man hours, sanding between coats, filling imperfections, the time soon adds up, and places do not want jobs to come back to them with endless faults that cost time & money to sort, so they do it right. I rememer the FSM Syrena the fat & orange one had done, that cost £1500, and it had runs in, and was blistering after a few months, and that was 'trade' rates. I've seen paint jobs cost upwards of £5k, so £2.5k seems pretty cheap these days


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#43 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:13 PM

You can make a surprisingly good job by hand doing a panel at a time.
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#44 OFFLINE   dave21478

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:26 PM

re materials costs....its not "just paint" though is it? its primer, thinners, hardener, masking tape, masking paper, lots of sanding discs, tack rags, filler, finer sandpaper, more tack rags, gunwash, mixing cups and so on..... that stuff doesnt grow on trees.

 

The last full respray I did was the Mini van and I got the paint from Jawel paints on ebay, but spent way more than the paint costs on all the consumables.

It was two-pack done in a wee shed with a compressor and a supposedly two-pack safe facemask which in reality probably knocked a few years off my life expectancy.

 

I dont know what I did wrong....but it came out with hellish orange peel all over. I managed to get a decent finish but it took several days of wet sanding as 2pack isnt easy to sand....you need the finish to be perfect straight out the gun.

 

DSCF0003.JPG

 

DSC00470.JPG

DSC00467.JPG

 


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#45 OFFLINE   steveo3002

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:28 PM

all the talk of mine blistered cus it was cheap...thing is cheap paint jobs usualy come with half arsed prep too 

 

cheap paint doesnt blister , its painting and priming in the damp /parked outside while being worked on that does the damage 


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#46 ONLINE   Junkman

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:31 PM

Do not paint.


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#47 OFFLINE   puddlethumper

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:51 PM

Agree with Dan about coach paints. I've done two cars with it and they came up really good.

 

A mate did his Viscount and I was impressed enough to do my Ventora.

 

Painting is best done early when the air is still, less shit flying about, and minimal insect life. I started mine as soon as the sun was up. 5 o'clock If I remember. Best put on a cool car so it doesn't start drying as you're doing it and you then get brush marks. Best to use really good brushes, Hamilton or Purdy pure bristle and you'll need 1, 2 and  three inch brushes.

Roof, bonnet and boot is done best with a gloss roller then brushed out. Keeping a wet edge is vital for blending it in and brushing towards it stops what is called shut marks. If any beasties get on it don't be tempted to pick them off until the paint dries, then after at least 24 hrs get the polisher out and you will be pleasantly surprised. Mind you I'm a Painter and so was my Viscount mate, which helps. A lot.

 

As an aside, I did an Austin 7 for a bloke who went to shows and he wanted it coach painted coz that was how they did them originally. Did a really nice job and he complained he couldn't see the brush marks ffs. He wanted other show types to know it was brushed ,so I did it again, at his expense, with a shit brush and he was happy. It was only the bonnet and boot that was sprayed originally I think.


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#48 OFFLINE   jonny69

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:03 PM

Don't use cheap paint from the likes of Jawel Paints. I've used their 2K twice - it takes AGES to cure, it shrinks and the gloss retention is terrible. It goes on ok initially but it shrinks back in time and it never really hardens properly like a 2K should. Spend a bit extra on something like Max Meyer or PPG and it'll make your life easier in the long run. I think it's probably what happened to ^ davetwentyoneforhundredand70eight there.


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#49 OFFLINE   steveo3002

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:05 PM

Don't use cheap paint from the likes of Jawel Paints. I've used their 2K twice - it takes AGES to cure, it shrinks and the gloss retention is terrible. It goes on ok initially but it shrinks back in time and it never really hardens properly like a 2K should. Spend a bit extra on something like Max Meyer or PPG and it'll make your life easier in the long run. I think it's probably what happened to ^ davetwentyoneforhundredand70eight there.

 

was that the non iso /air dry 2k?  heard thats a load of shit


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#50 OFFLINE   Wack

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:05 PM

Yup I get that :)
I am thinking more of grabbing a leccy HVLP and 1k or Enamel?
I still cant get over why car paint the paint itself is such a silly price? aferall its just paint..........................
Or????????????????????
I could just leave it as it is?
Everybody says they seem to like it Flat Black........................


£1000 for paint is BS, £120 on eBay for a car trade pack

I've used these guys for paint when a mate painted my defender in a tent , came out OK , not as good as a £2500 respray but acceptable, I did all the prep , it's only flatting the original paint off , masking takes time to do right though.

https://www.ebay.co....y0AAOSwr~lYrZGB
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#51 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:12 PM

Do not paint.

:lol:


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#52 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:05 PM

all the talk of mine blistered cus it was cheap...thing is cheap paint jobs usualy come with half arsed prep too 
 
cheap paint doesnt blister , its painting and priming in the damp /parked outside while being worked on that does the damage


Very true. I'm fairly sure mine blistered because they sprayed it with moisture in the air lines! It looked fucking awful too.
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#53 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:31 PM

Do not use household or coach paint on a car of any value that you want to look nice one day - they are synthetic or oil based. That is for the sort of rubbish that will never receive a proper paint job.

 

After you've rollered or brushed this shit on, another painter will have to spend a lot of his time and your money bare metalling it because 2 pack will not go on top - it will just react instantly. If you must DIY, you need to use fast drying cellulose to get the bulk of the paint on and make the mistakes. Then it can be wet flatted and painted again on a nice warm dry day in slow drying cellulose. You'll need a good gun, and a filter to catch any moisture. The moisture inside the compressor is what freezes and causes micro blistering.

 

Good prep takes forever. Very few amateurs can get filler right and the crucial stage is getting primer filler on and blocking it back after guide coating.

 

Either do a decent long winded DIY cellulose job or nothing at all. The minute you start painting it with a brush, roller, Rustoleum etc the car is scrap short of a very, very expensive bare metal paint job. You try getting a painter to sort that out for £2500.

 

No painter I know does cheap jobs. The ones I know turn out nice work and charge accordingly, and they have a reputation to think about.

 

£2500 for a decent job is entirely reasonable.


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#54 OFFLINE   AlabamaShrimp

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 05:44 PM

I've done prep on hundereds of cars for my dad to spray and it all came done to how facny and right* you wanted it to look in the end.

 

What i mean is if you dont care really what it looks like, as in the paint isn't 100% flat, but also not coverd in runs or oragne peel. then just go for it yourself as both those problems can be fixed with rubbing it down again. Use someting like T-cut or G3 stuff and although it takes ages you cant really mess it up.

 

Some People put too much emphisis on the finish of the car when relly any paint is better than none. Does the car look shit? So what at least it's getting used.


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#55 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:35 PM

Now where is that 5 litre of Wilko Gloss White? Couple of those Tommy Walsh paintbrushes from poundland and I could respray the car. Probably best to do it on an evening when there's a bad frost forecast.

#56 OFFLINE   cort16

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:41 PM

My mate who is a painter has done a few cars in white tractor enamel paint. It always comes out looking great, is really tough and polishes up to a great shine. It's not expensive either.

 

https://www.ebay.co....id=161313349028

 

Anyone who's ever done any bodywork will know it's a black art. I used to do quite a lot and a few times had to get my mate to re-do it. Now I just get him to do it. It's not easy!


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I estimate this car needs £3000 maybe £4000 spending on it to get it rite and when this is done it will be wotrth about £1500!!


#57 OFFLINE   Pillock

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 07:44 PM

I read a blog about a guy who used foam rollers and enamel paint to do a whole car. It seemed to have some sort of self levelling ability and didn't sag or run. Needed polishing but also less masking prep as you're not throwing all the paint at the wind.

#58 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:04 PM

My mate foam rollered a Skoda Estelle, in gloss black, didn't mask it or anything, rang the breakers to fetch it before the paint had dried. You use rollers to paint walls and other slightly roughened surfaces quickly.

#59 OFFLINE   Barry Cade.

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:21 PM

Did my X1/9 in basecoat then 2k laqquer in a weekend, in a 1.5 width garage. Basecoat is cellulose, and pretty forgiving- most paints, even solids are clear over base now. Cost about £200 in materials.

 

NewImage.jpg

 

12.jpg

 

myxfinished.jpg

 

10.jpg

 

White X1/9- Ford diamond white at a tenner a litre, less than £100 in materials...It was my £500 project- get the car running,MOT'd and dependable for less than £500.. We have an Autopaint branch locally and they are brilliant, painting is just practice and confidence, if you get a run, or orange peel you can rub it down and do a panel, or the whole car again.. even take panels off and do them one at a time. Even if you run to 5 or 600 quid in stuff, you've learned a skill, and will have enough left for touch ins or repairs down the line.  Some places have a DIY garage which will hire out a spray booth for a few days too, with a pro on hand to keep you right.

 

x3.jpg

 

x9.jpg

 

P8210046.jpg

 

 


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#60 OFFLINE   Isaac Hunt

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:49 PM

Taught myself to paint in my teens. It was all cellulose back then, maybe single pack acrylic 'knacker lacker' if you wanted a blow over and a shine from the gun. I never liked the single pack, thought it was shit.

Cellulose was fab but it is all in the prep. Spend hours getting the base right, prime, cellulose, wet flat 1200 grit or finer then hand cut and burnish to a real gloss. I painted a car in a mates single garage and when it was finished his next door nabour who owned a body's repair shop offered me a job "come and see me first thing Monday" he said, want you working for me. I didn't as I was already on a separate career path.

It's hard work though. No diff to modern paint, be it the two pack or water based. You have to get the prep right. Putting the paint on is the easy bit if you know how to handle the gun. The problem is with the modern stiff it isn't as forgiving as cellulose and you need a load of extra kit for it.

Try flatting a fly out of water based base coat abefore putting the lacquer on, not as easy as flatting it out of cellulose and polishing.

There is a guy over on Retro Rides that painted a white Fiesta in a garage at home using two-pack I think (with some 'appropriate ish dust extraction and fresh air fed mask, looks the dogs bollocks.

Someone else I knew was told to buy the best mask he could buy, paint the thing quick in two pack and piss off outside in the fresh air quick but personally I don't fancy that.




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