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Best estate shite ever made?


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#181 OFFLINE   cros

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:18 AM

I nearly had an Avenger estate once (only nearly though) and was amazed how big it was inside. Considering the Avenger was aimed at the Escort market, the estate was easily a match for the Cortina.


I delivered a last-of-production Avenger Estate when they looked like a raddled old tart and were utterly despised by the motoring press. It drove really well and was a practical roomy car; that grill was horrible. I'd have one.
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#182 OFFLINE   spike60

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:47 AM

I delivered a last-of-production Avenger Estate when they looked like a raddled old tart and were utterly despised by the motoring press. It drove really well and was a practical roomy car; that grill was horrible. I'd have one.

My recently departed old Pa was part of the design team for the Avenger in late 60's, working for Rootes Group IIRC. He was long gone from the car industry by the raddled old tart phase though.


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#183 OFFLINE   cros

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:58 AM

Your Pa did a good job then. I believe money was very tight for the Avenger but simple underpinnings were made to work very well.
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#184 ONLINE   Talbot

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:31 AM

My main thought is that anything sold as a load lugger MUST have self-levelling suspension. Given it only seems to work on Citroens, it's starting to look like I need another Citroen.

 

Or Merc S124 / S210.  My utter-heap-of-shite S210 has a similar self-level system on the back as the S124 (although clearly more cheaply made) and it works very well.

 

But if you're towing, the big Citroen wins.  Mainly because the ratio of wheelbase-to-rear-overhang is better.  The S210's rear axle is too far forward, so a trailer pushes it about more.  Look at a CX safari.. the wheelbase is massive and the rear overhang is tiny.  Absolutely brilliant for towing.

 

Part of the reason why a Classic Range rover / Discovery 1/2 is not the awesome towcar that people think it is... they all get pushed about by the trailer too much.


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Current fleet:  Mercedes.  Xantia.  Berlingo.  Discovery.  Forward Control.  Nova. Historic shite.

#185 ONLINE   Talbot

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:36 AM

Speaking of which...

 

These:

Mercedes_Benz-E_Class_Estate_S210_mp35_pic_76684.jpg

 

Are about as cheap as they will ever be now.  Sub-£1000 gets you a decent one.  RWD, Self-levelling rear, absolute cavern inside, 7-seats, and you can even get an AMG E55 version (athough not for £1000) which is blisteringly fast.  The E300 OM606 is also extremely veg-friendly too.  Just wish the headlamps didn't look quite so silly and dated now..


Current fleet:  Mercedes.  Xantia.  Berlingo.  Discovery.  Forward Control.  Nova. Historic shite.

#186 ONLINE   Tadhg Tiogar

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:10 PM

.... if you're towing, the big Citroen wins.  Mainly because the ratio of wheelbase-to-rear-overhang is better.  The S210's rear axle is too far forward, so a trailer pushes it about more.  Look at a CX safari.. the wheelbase is massive and the rear overhang is tiny.  Absolutely brilliant for towing.

 

Part of the reason why a Classic Range rover / Discovery 1/2 is not the awesome towcar that people think it is... they all get pushed about by the trailer too much.

 

Before 4x4s became a sine qua non, what did people tow their horse trailers with? Well, er, cars.... So if it's cars, it might as well be a CX.


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F*ck your Honda Civic, I've a horse outside,
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And f*ck your Mitsubishi, I've a horse outside,
If you're lookin' for a ride, I've got a horse outside

#187 OFFLINE   spike60

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:44 PM

My E39 530d estate has air bag self levelling suspension, in the 30k it's been with us it went wrong once when an original bag split at 255k miles. It was an easy £35 repair.



#188 OFFLINE   willswitchengage

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:02 PM

That Micra reminds me of the Honda Jazz estate which is obviously called the 'Honda Fit Shuttle'.

 

Very similar to the 206, Clio and Fabia mini estates that were popular here.

 

56.jpg


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#189 OFFLINE   willswitchengage

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:05 PM

...and on the subject of Peugeots, I love these, even if it was almost like they handed the development and styling of the estate modifications to the intern:

 

Peugeot_407_SW_rear_20080523.jpg


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#190 ONLINE   3VOM

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:30 PM

That Micra reminds me of the Honda Jazz estate which is obviously called the 'Honda Fit Shuttle'.

 

Very similar to the 206, Clio and Fabia mini estates that were popular here.

Jazzes are Fits in lots of other markets.


What's the retail on one of those plumbed in fire extinguisher systems?


#191 OFFLINE   forddeliveryboy

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:31 PM

But if you're towing, the big Citroen wins. Mainly because the ratio of wheelbase-to-rear-overhang is better. The S210's rear axle is too far forward, so a trailer pushes it about more. Look at a CX safari.. the wheelbase is massive and the rear overhang is tiny. Absolutely brilliant for towing.



Yes, I agree. But it wasn't just the massive wheelbase and lack of overhang, the back axle was huge and hugely strong, with stiff little aluminium trailing arms pivoting within it, no squishy rubber bushing anywhere other than between the monocoque and substructure. I've never seen anything like it on a car or light commercial.

Add to that the extra tyre grip associated with the hydraulic suspension and a huge towbar which was sprung in the vertical axis and took the horizontal load to the back axle through large tubes.

It's the only car I've ever driven which felt capable of bending the laws of physics, whether a 75hp na diesel estate or Maikonics Turbo with 250hp.

005.jpg
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#192 OFFLINE   NorfolkNWeigh

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:41 PM

I was trying to remember what the Matchbox estate with the sliding roof was, it just came to me ; Studebaker.image.jpeg image.jpeg

Apparently they leaked, so a fixed roof became an option and was more popular, the step is a neat idea , not so much for loading but to use as a viewing platform.
Fun fact: the 8 seat version had no spare wheel so was fitted with 'puncture proof' tyres.
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#193 OFFLINE   Vapeswagen

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:59 PM

Some estate shite I haven't seen posted;

 

photos_volkswagen_passat_1991_1.jpg

 

Pisshat B3 VR6, apparently. Looks mega

 

 

18157933_1296857270429656_81358310254094

 

The almighty Ford AU Falcon


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Tesco self-service tills are the work of an utter cunt. 

 


#194 OFFLINE   DSdriver

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:51 PM

My mum had one of these with a tuned Cooper engine, It was unspeakably rapid if you could control the wheelspin.

mattlausersmini_resized.jpg

 

Since then I have had an ID19 Safari, a Mk3 Cortina estate, two 2.4 litre CX familiales, several Volvo 740/940 estates, an XM estate (still in this parish) and a DS21 Safari

6137459975_070f542429_z.jpg

Citroen DS21 Safari by Jean-Pierre Declemy, on Flickr

 

My favourite? Probably the CX estates because Diravi powered steering meant you could park a 16ft car in a 17ft gap totally effortlessly.


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JohnF said:
"I have to say, I don't really like the styling of Citroens.

But I just love the fact that they exist."

#195 ONLINE   Tadhg Tiogar

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:32 PM

..... it wasn't just the massive wheelbase and lack of overhang, the back axle was huge and hugely strong, with stiff little aluminium trailing arms pivoting within it, no squishy rubber blushing anywhere other than between the monocoque and substructure. I've never seen anything like it on a car or light commercial.

Add to that the extra tyre grip associated with the hydraulic suspension and a huge towbar which was sprung in the vertical axis and took the horizontal load to the back axle through large tubes.

It's the only car I've ever driven which felt capable of bending the laws of physics, whether a 75hp na diesel estate or Maikonics Turbo with 250hp.

attachicon.gif005.jpg

 
That's because it does bend the laws of physics. You drive over the potholes and bumps and it feels like they're just....not there.
 
I bought one, and I feel vindicated. I'm going to give it a jet wash tomorrow and then give it a lengthy spin.
 
IMG_20170916_162846.jpg
 
display.jpg

..... Diravi powered steering meant you could park a 16ft car in a 17ft gap totally effortlessly.

 
You know all those recent car adverts which show the driver taking his hands off the wheel whilst the car parks itself? DIRAVI / Varipower sort of got there first.
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F*ck your Honda Civic, I've a horse outside,
F*ck your Subaru, I have a horse outside.
And f*ck your Mitsubishi, I've a horse outside,
If you're lookin' for a ride, I've got a horse outside

#196 ONLINE   catsinthewelder

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:59 PM

I haven't used it much this week as circumstances handed me a modern estate (Ford Connect Tourneo) but despite all Vauxhalls being shit this makes a brilliant daily drive.

 

IMG_20170601_080915600.jpg

 

The best bit is the length,  I took a 3M length of guttering out and tried to put it in a Discovery,  it didn't fit by quite a lot.


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96 Disastra Estate in Vulgalours hat purple
94 Peugeot 405 Estate
93 Land Rover Discovery 200TDI

#197 OFFLINE   forddeliveryboy

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:46 AM

Before 4x4s became a sine qua non, what did people tow their horse trailers with? Well, er, cars.... So if it's cars, it might as well be a CX.



I remember loads of safe/default choice Volvo 1/245s used by the more boring and class-conscious English middle classes, a few battered Landy 109s, the odd titled or wealthy sort in a Range Rover or big Citroën and quite a few mad Matra Ranchos. But most just used their everyday larger (and less so) cars and just got on with it - Triumph 2000s, Dolomites, Avengers, Solaras, Marinas, bigger Renaults (seem to remember 20s and 30s were popular with horsey sorts) and Peugeots, Granadas, Cortinas, Carltons, Landcrabs, Cavaliers, Toyota Crowns, Jag XJ6s, Rover P5, P6s and SD1s and even a few strange Germans with painted metal interiors.

Lifestyle once meant a fitting a towbar, throwing wellies and warm clothes in the boot as well as your horse/sailing gear then getting on with your activity rather than trying so hard to look the part. The Rancho was a sign of things to come.

matra-simca-rancho.jpg
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#198 OFFLINE   cros

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:55 AM

∆∆∆ Still looks better that most of this genre.
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#199 ONLINE   Spottedlaurel

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:57 AM

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but obviously I'm going to say Camry.

 

34494848865_3581b5a186_c.jpg

My Toyota Estates by Spottedlaurel, on Flickr

 

Both the ones I've had have been the 2.2 4-pot, and TBH I reckon they drive nicer than the 3-litre V6 (but that's an option for sound/complexity/higher spec). All the ones sold here are 7-seaters and they work brilliantly as a proper estate. Difficult to say if it's significantly bigger inside than my Avensis Tourer, but being older and tattier I don't really worry about what I chuck in it and the tailgate is almost vertical so it's more useable as a loadcarrier.

 

1990s Toyota build quality is very good - the switches have a much better feel than the Avensis. Despite being fairly big and heavy it has an incredibly light feel to the way it drives, and for a multivalve 'four' the engine does a good job of combining torque and revving freely. I'm probably going to go back to a petrol daily when I replace the Avensis, but I bet it'll feel a bit weak after the Camry.

 

Difficult to know why anybody would choose not to get an estate - they're usually the same footprint as the saloon/hatchback but far more useful.


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The home of one previous owner Japanese cars:

1973 Datsun 1200 B110 2dr; 1980 Laurel 2.4 C230; 1988 Sunny 1.6 LX N13
1992 Camry 2.2GL (definitely just for spares now); 1993 Camry Estate 2.2GL on the road again!!

And a couple of modern Toyotas


#200 OFFLINE   Wingz123

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:53 AM

Queen drove past me in this Jag about 2 months ago as we walked down the long walk in Windsor.
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2013 Toyota Prius 1.8 Hybrid

2003 Kia Sedona 2.9 CRDi

2010 Ford Focus Estate 1.6TDCi Ecomotive

2000 BMW 328ci E46

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#201 OFFLINE   DSdriver

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:10 AM

Queen drove past me in this Jag about 2 months ago as we walked down the long walk in Windsor.

Didn't stop and offer a lift? Tsk...toffs :)


JohnF said:
"I have to say, I don't really like the styling of Citroens.

But I just love the fact that they exist."

#202 ONLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:33 AM

Before 4x4s became a sine qua non, what did people tow their horse trailers with? Well, er, cars.... So if it's cars, it might as well be a CX.


I once saw some woman, a horsey type, towing a big horse box with a Capri! It looked absolutely stupid tbh!
Seemed to be doing the job well enough but certainly wouldn't have my first choice for the job.
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#203 ONLINE   Tadhg Tiogar

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:38 AM

... The Rancho was a sign of things to come.

matra-simca-rancho.jpg


I suppose today's Rancho equivalent would be something like the Škoda Yeti.
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F*ck your Honda Civic, I've a horse outside,
F*ck your Subaru, I have a horse outside.
And f*ck your Mitsubishi, I've a horse outside,
If you're lookin' for a ride, I've got a horse outside

#204 OFFLINE   Nibblet

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:36 PM

Here's another worthy estate, the humble Nissan Prairie. Was watching an episode of Morse last night and the protagonist was driving one and reminded me of them. There's a giffer example around here in the same colour still going despite the rampant rot.

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1972 Volvo 164 (quite nice)
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#205 ONLINE   Tadhg Tiogar

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:42 PM

....Difficult to know why anybody would choose not to get an estate - they're usually the same footprint as the saloon/hatchback but far more useful.


You've reminded me of a car sticker I used to see in the 1980s, which read:

"They said I'd inherit an Estate. This is it!"
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F*ck your Honda Civic, I've a horse outside,
F*ck your Subaru, I have a horse outside.
And f*ck your Mitsubishi, I've a horse outside,
If you're lookin' for a ride, I've got a horse outside

#206 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:54 PM

I'm having that for the vectra

Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi - the boring modern 

Fiat Ducato 2009 l3h2

Honda Crf250X

Suzuki TS50x

Kawasaki Ke175d

Prilla Pigsasshole 650

Saxo 1.5D

Land Rover 90 2.5 petrol

Vectra B 2.2 CDX estate 

 

 

 


#207 OFFLINE   willswitchengage

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:56 PM

Rememba, our US counterparts, who are our new Brexit best friends, bought estates too...

 

Ford Taurus. Designed by a glass blower I think.

 

tl_600x340.jpg

 

Chevrolet Caprice and other GM siblings:

 

Chevrolet_Caprice_Estate_04.jpg

 

Unbelievably, that's not actually real wood on the panels.

 

Now for the exam question.. what's the difference between an estate, tourer and station wagon?


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254614.png


#208 OFFLINE   spike60

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:14 PM

What about the Shooting Brakes? :-D



#209 ONLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:52 PM

If I were a soccer Mom I'd have one of these instead of my 4 door sedan.

3792248389_ef7540c609_b.jpg1973 Mercury Marquis Colony Park by coconv, on Flickr
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1973 Mercury Marquis Brougham 429 V8
1974 Ford Capri 1.6 L
1984 Ford Transit 2.0 100L LWB high roof
1988 Volvo 740 2.3 GLE estate

#210 OFFLINE   stormee

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 05:33 PM

That 164 is so half arsed it could have been done by Farnham.

In about 87/88 the Works Lancia Team had a couple of Thema Estates as Chase cars on the RAC, they were bloody quick and sounded like a rally car complete with flames from the exhaust.
Which made me wonder if an 8.32 existed...
attachicon.gifimage.jpeg
Of course there is , but only one for Snr Agnelli.
Perhaps it replaced his 130
attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

I once had some fun with a Thema Station Wagon Turbo DS, very comfy and nice interior, extremely rare today. The 5-pot petrol ones sounded awesome!


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1990 Volkswagen Golf Moda





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