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The further adventures of a Shitestang........................


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#901 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 10:32 PM

Was the wire coiled up? Chances are the motor is fine after all the smoke was from the new bit of wire not the motor?
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#902 OFFLINE   PhilA

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:03 PM

Wiper motor loaded up is probably a ten amp item. What was the bad connection you mentioned before that stopped it working? Perhaps the same one again? Ten amp is enough to make quite a lot of smoke through a bad connection.

It's also possible the commutator got a bit smoky, residue on it and everything.

Phil
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#903 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:43 PM

Wire was coiled up and  negative and positive next to each other on the floor :shock:

Didnt seem to burn the lot just where it crossed each other....................

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Also burn the park wire at the switch end.....................

Wiring has now been melted together rather like a pretzel :(

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Id put it in this box to steady it and the vent was under they flap to the rear

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Just before it melted it slowed down :(

Do I need to take it apart again or can I just  run it again?

Noticed the  park terminal on the rear of the switch is now a bit wobbly have I borked it?

Still shows low resistance and continuity mind


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#904 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:45 PM

Wiper motor loaded up is probably a ten amp item. What was the bad connection you mentioned before that stopped it working? Perhaps the same one again? Ten amp is enough to make quite a lot of smoke through a bad connection.

It's also possible the commutator got a bit smoky, residue on it and everything.

Phil

The bad connection wasnt the motor my wires were not connected very well to the jump starter


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#905 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:46 PM

Was the wire coiled up? Chances are the motor is fine after all the smoke was from the new bit of wire not the motor?

Didnt notice any smoke from the motor just the new wiring

It litterally only smoked where the wire hand melted together and that was tangled up coiled wire of which there was at least two meters.and i was only testing didnt want to cut it as it could be used now it looks like its unusable,wish I had cut it down now :(


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#906 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:04 AM

I haven't seen a photo of a big bloody V8 for too long.


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1967 Renault 16 GL.............................................now with floor and MoT

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1997 Peugeot 405 2.0 Executive Estate..................now with aircon and brakes


#907 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:13 AM

I haven't seen a photo of a big bloody V8 for too long.

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#908 OFFLINE   PhilA

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:53 AM

Oh. That wiring isn't up to task of running that big motor, particularly if it gets a bit bogged down. The current draw as a motor takes load and slows down increases dramatically over running normally (which is why wiper motors tend to have them overload cutouts in circuit).

Check the motor bucket hasn't shifted and that it's also not tightened up too much, the back bearing can bind up if it is.
Don't fret. Give it a try again and see if it runs freely. If it runs all slow, pull it apart and check the brushes and commutator aren't burned or glazed.

Phil
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#909 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 01:19 AM

Oh. That wiring isn't up to task of running that big motor, particularly if it gets a bit bogged down. The current draw as a motor takes load and slows down increases dramatically over running normally (which is why wiper motors tend to have them overload cutouts in circuit).

Check the motor bucket hasn't shifted and that it's also not tightened up too much, the back bearing can bind up if it is.
Don't fret. Give it a try again and see if it runs freely. If it runs all slow, pull it apart and check the brushes and commutator aren't burned or glazed.

Phil

Havnt tried to run it again but have been inside to look ;)

Ive found a way around the brushes falling out,with the  gearbox open just insert a small open spanner abouve the commutator corkscrew then remove the bowl stops it from pulling out ;)

Anyhows................

Comutator has a black band around it like it did before is this glazing?

The oriinal Wiper switch had fairly tiny wires inside it an auto electrical suppliers suggested the thin wall 16amp cable,is there something else you would recommend Phil?

Should i try run thisagain tomorrow and if so what gauge wire? bit worried it will set light inside the car :(


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#910 OFFLINE   They_all_do_that_sir

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:54 AM

Set of jump leads would be overkill but would do the job.

I tend to use them more for testing bike starter motors, which like to make sparks and noise

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk
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#911 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:52 AM

Set of jump leads would be overkill but would do the job.

I tend to use them more for testing bike starter motors, which like to make sparks and noise

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

Just used that wire as it was suggested to me by AES it seems tiny but is rated at 16 amps.

Curious to know what rating of wire I should reall use as I can have jump leads under my dash :lol:


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#912 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:58 AM

You've just discovered why extension leads say 'uncoil before use'.


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#913 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:20 PM

Good News and not sure sort of news??

Had the motor running again this morning,still only had the same sort of wire but a shorter run and I kept them away from each other.

Didnt appear to get warm but I am still not happy using that wire now :(

Did notice something though,a noisy bearing :(

Not sure which one though?

Thes on between the gearbox and commutatot and one at the end of the bowl.

The Gearbox end one you can see but not really get to :(

Not sure if ive burnt out this new switch? The Park spade the park wire had melted to it.....................

Now that spade on the switch is loose :(

I did notice the brush that goes to ground is barely touching the communtator its angled like marker pen and its only the tip making contact whereas the White and Blue its a good 75% in contact.............

Just need to know a decent gauige to go for that isnt going to get hot? Was looking at 27 amp in hafords today but it only comes in two colours :(

Dont know what to do .com


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#914 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:22 PM

You'd probably be better going somewhere like this for wiring, just work out a list & order it all at the same time http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/


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#915 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:22 PM

You've just discovered why extension leads say 'uncoil before use'.

Do you reckon thats all it was? I thought it needed to be hot to melt in the first place or os it because it was coiled that its got hot?


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#916 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:24 PM

Do you reckon thats all it was? I thought it needed to be hot to melt in the first place or os it because it was coiled that its got hot?

 

Coiled wire can't radiate the heat it produces as it's touching other equally warm wire. Meaning a single bit of wire doesn't get as hot as the same wire coiled carrying the same current.

 

However I don't think I'd be happy using it either seeing that result.


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#917 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:44 PM

Coiled wire can't radiate the heat it produces as it's touching other equally warm wire. Meaning a single bit of wire doesn't get as hot as the same wire coiled carrying the same current.

 

However I don't think I'd be happy using it either seeing that result.

I am beginining to think it was the coiled wire though i wouldnt of expected to have melted like that as it wasnt coiled tightly.

nontheless I think I need something a bit heavier :)

Thinks is going to have to be local halfrauds and just tape to distinguish colours

Also wondering is I should go heavier again for Ground Strap as the ground wire melted too!

Mind you the red had melted through the ground wire next to it!


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#918 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 02:31 PM

It's an effect called induction heating (I think), if putting more than a few amps through an extension lead it's good practise to always fully uncoil it.

Bearing might quieten off with use, maybe it's washed the grease from it?

#919 OFFLINE   PhilA

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 02:43 PM

Does the ground brush make better contact if you rotate it 180 degrees in the holder?

Try slacken off the big bolts holding the bowl on a turn or so and see if that helps in quietening it down. If so, nip them up with the motor running an eighth turn each going from one to the other, listening how the bearings sound.


Phil
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#920 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 03:10 PM

It's an effect called induction heating (I think), if putting more than a few amps through an extension lead it's good practise to always fully uncoil it.

Bearing might quieten off with use, maybe it's washed the grease from it?

Have wondered that? If ive cleaned it too well?


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#921 OFFLINE   Mally

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 03:16 PM

It's an effect called induction heating (I think), if putting more than a few amps through an extension lead it's good practise to always fully uncoil it.

 

 

This is true, but I've welded using a coiled extension and it works for a good while.

I'd suspect the motor rather than the wire coils.

  I know nothing about electrikery except you can't see it, but you can feel it.


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#922 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 03:25 PM

This is true, but I've welded using a coiled extension and it works for a good while.
I'd suspect the motor rather than the wire coils.
I know nothing about electrikery except you can't see it, but you can feel it.


Especially if finding out if 3 phase is live with the back of your hand....
You are right though probably more heating effect due to too thin a wire than coil unless it was running for a long period.

#923 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 03:30 PM

Does the ground brush make better contact if you rotate it 180 degrees in the holder?

Try slacken off the big bolts holding the bowl on a turn or so and see if that helps in quietening it down. If so, nip them up with the motor running an eighth turn each going from one to the other, listening how the bearings sound.


Phil

It the moment the ground is under them so didnt want to slacken them off too much but I will try.

It does smell a bit but doesnt appear to get any worse so i am guessing the smell is normal?

Just tried loosening those it sounds like the bearing noise is coming from the gearbox end rather than the bowel end.................

Just need a good recommendation now what to wire up the wiper switch plug with?

All the wire was finished on it so used this modern Thin Wall stuff the wiper arm was toast but still need the plug to connect the new switch into the old loom.

Not sure if I should leave this thin wall 16 amp on and just make sure its not coiled or twisted or replace it with something heavier?

 


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#924 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 03:53 PM

This is true, but I've welded using a coiled extension and it works for a good while.

I'd suspect the motor rather than the wire coils.

  I know nothing about electrikery except you can't see it, but you can feel it.

Funny thing is nothing burned in the motor nor its wiring just this new think and crispy super door thin wall cable............................

Strange but true!


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#925 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 03:58 PM

DOH!

Ive just made the bearing quieter................

By holding the motor rather than leaving it on the table :rolleyes:

:lol:

I just dont know now if I should use this wire or not?

will it be ok so long as I dont coil it up?


Just reconnected the switch minus the park pin as it feels dodgy........................


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#926 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 04:02 PM


Also wondering is I should go heavier again for Ground Strap as the ground wire melted too!
 

 

You need the same ampage wire for grounding as the supply.

 

What size fuse is fitted for the wipers? You need wire rated higher than that for starters.



#927 OFFLINE   Joloke

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 04:31 PM

You need the same ampage wire for grounding as the supply.

 

What size fuse is fitted for the wipers? You need wire rated higher than that for starters.

6 amp

The Owners Manual says its a trip contact breaker but theres a fuse there,dont seem to be able to get 6 am fuses any more :(

Should probably order a breaker they are only cheap

This thin crispy wire is 16 amp


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#928 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 04:33 PM

Odd the wire melted then, I'd be scratching my head at that point too.



#929 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 04:53 PM

Thin crispy wire might have been made by the lowest bidder and while in theory it should take 16a in practise they may have omitted a few strands to save a few pennies per metre.
Attaching an amp meter in the circuit would tell you how much is being drawn

#930 OFFLINE   PhilA

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:18 PM

Looks like 16GA not 16A.


Phil
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