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Still not fixed, take it away for cheaps (W202 content)

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#1 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 09:40 PM

I'd been half looking out for automatics under a grand on ebay for a while with the intention of convinving my OH to get rid of our very reliable but very dull 06 Corolla auto and get something cheaper (as these inexpicably still seem to bring a daft amount of money compared to maunal ones) and hopefully still reliable. The usual candidates were watched - accords, civics, avensis etc when my eye was turned by an immaculate looking W202 C Class. Just 2 owners from new, sport spec and juicy V6 engine. It really did look the biz in resale silver. Just 80k miles and not too far away! I placed my bid and went to bed to await my fate.

 

I woke up the next morning and within about 10 secs had that forboding rememberance of my bidding activity and with some trepidation, checked my phone. Guess what, I'd only bloody won it!!! Fantastic, thought I....oh wait....hang on...that's not....oh shit. You see dear readers, I had also placed a bid on this one...

 

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This advert did not speak at length about its wonderful condition. Infact it did not speak at length at all, giving a mileage, MOT expiry and something like 'good cond for age'. I also only had one picture to go off, it was in Droitwich 100 miles from me and it needed collecting by Sunday (this was Saturday). The lovely silver one I had also bid on went for £1275, whereas this one was mine for a rather more bargainous £680 on a 3 day auction. A quick phonecall to fatha J-T meant collection on Sunday was possible and a check of the MOT history revealed only a couple of fails in its lifetime on minor issues. Another phonecall to the seller proved that he sounded sane, so a plan was hatched to pick it up the following day.

 

The journey went without a hitch and the postcode took us to a very leafy area of Droitwich. The seller only gave me a postcode and told me to ring him 'when you get to the old people's home'. This I duly did (it really was in the middle of nowhere) from where he directed me to the START of his drive. We ended up parked outside a 9 bedroom house with its own 80 acre estate overlooking a private lake. At which point this thing came clattering out of a barn looking rather folorn with its wing mirror hanging off. First impressions were...omg this thing is hanging. But look past the grime and there is a nice car under there. I asked if I could have a quick drive & was handed the keys whilst my dad chewed his ear off about what fish he had in his lake. Well it drove bloody ace so I was definitely having it.

 

So what had I bought? Well, it turned out, a 1998 C250 Turbo Diesel in elegance spec (the posh one) with 122k miles that had only done around 3k over the last 3 years. Apparently our guy bought it when it was about 2 years old and kept it mint for a good 10 years or so. He then lent it to his friend for a few years "and he is not a small chap" which is where all the filth came from and the reason the driver's door card is mullered and the seat bolster is ripped. Must be where he leant on it getting in/out. Great I thought. "Does it have any paperwork with it?" I ask. "oh yes, the book pack is just in the glovebox I think, it's been very well serviced". Very well serviced turned out to be a full MB service history, stamped every 10k up to 112k (albeit 5 years ago!). Previous owner on the V5 is Lord something or other. At which point I threw the money at him - £20 of which he insisted on giving back so I could put some diesel in, told my dad to shutup about fish and got in the car before he changed his mind. It drove all the way back without a beat. Here it is in all its glory.

 

 

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That last picture doesn't really convey how filthy it is inside. I have asked a man with a shampoo thing to come and clean it. I shall post the results in due course.

 

All this was last weekend. Since then I just haven't had chance to have a proper look at it. What I have found is: everything on it seems to work, it has 4 khumo tyres all with good tread, it needs a service, it looks like some/all of the leak off pipes are leaking, it needs a driver's wing mirror, the all important bonnet badge is missing, there's a small rust bleb on one front arch but other than that it seems to have escaped the rust rash most of these tend to have, it pulls to the left, the fuel gauge reads 1/4 full when it's empty.

 

I shall work through these issues in due course (wing mirror & bonnet badge have been ordered). If approval is not forthcoming, it may come to a raffle near you.

 

Anyone know if these will run on veg?


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#2 OFFLINE   Dave_Q

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 09:57 PM

90% sure these will run on veg, think it's indirect injection with a mechanical pump.


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#3 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:46 PM

Lovely, now that's a WBOD!



#4 OFFLINE   stuboy

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 11:01 PM

itll scrub up well


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#5 OFFLINE   mercrocker

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:32 AM

Well bought sir, looks a good 'un!   Grubby but had a good start in life is the way to buy Mercs.


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#6 OFFLINE   Hertz

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:43 AM

Nice, when are you picking the other one up?


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#7 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:44 AM

W202 C250D's are great cars. Look after it (Waxoyl etc) and you'll get your money back next year.

 

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#8 ONLINE   Lord Sterling

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:45 AM

...Previous owner on the V5 is Lord something or other...


I don't remember owning a C-Class Merc. I did have an E-Class once.
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#9 OFFLINE   DaveDorson

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:46 AM

Lovely



#10 OFFLINE   barmatt

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:30 PM

I used to have a similar aged one of these in sport spec. I really liked it, a good comfy cruiser that could raise a little smile with circa 150hp and would return 40mpg on a run.

 

I never ran mine on veg, although I did think about it but the general consensus on MB forums was that they wouldn't like it in the long term. Something to do with them having saddle shaped fuel tanks and the veg sinking to the bottom and gumming it up. Not sure how true this is, I was happy running it on pump derv.

 

Enjoy it, they are a nice motor.


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#11 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:11 PM

A man came to clean it yesterday...

 

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It's come up quite well really. The mats are still a bit groggy but I can't really expect miracles. Cue several weeks of steamy windows whilst it dries out!

 

In other news, I've managed to completely take one of the rear doors out of action. I thought the child lock was playing up as it wouldn't open from outside but would open from inside (yes, I now realise this is the complete opposite of how a child lock would function but am stoopid). So I opened the door, moved the child lock switch and closed the door again. Well the child lock very much works, so now the door won't open from inside or outside, it's the outside handle that was the problem. Any suggestions on how to get this open without butchering the door card?


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#12 OFFLINE   BorniteIdentity

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:51 PM

Yours is nicer than mine. Sadreactsonly.

Nice stuff though. Well bought!

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#13 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:27 PM

Bit of an update on this. I gave it quick clean outside. Looks quite smart however it really needs a good polish, but it was too cold for that today.

 

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The eagle eyed amonst you may notice it now sports a full driver's wing mirror assembly. I also managed to find a mirror cover in the correct colour as the old one was cracked ended up costing about £70 for the 2 bits.

 

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It also now sports its essential plutocratic emblem

 

Anyway, I've been having a right war with this rear door that wouldn't open and I think I've managed to make the situation worse. Have a shit, blurry picture to prove:

 

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So, as you can see, I did actually manage to get it open at one stage. I took the plate off behind the handle on the door card, took out what fixings I could get to and managed to lever the top of the door card away. This made the top part of the door latch accessible and through luck not judgement, I managed to release the child lock, which made the interior handle work and the door open.

 

I had a faff around with the door latch and the exterior handle still wouldn't work. So I took the exterior handle off to see if something had come adrift but I couldn't see anything obvious. In the midst of all this, the rods that actuate the inner door handle came off. I put them back on and shut the door and can you guess what happened? Correct folks, it now won't open again. I pissed about with it for an hour - child lock on, child lock off, operated the latch with the rod, operated it with a screwdriver, pressed and prodded every part that I could get at but I still can't get the door to open. Something that was presumably hanging on by a thread to start with inside the mechanism has now totally failed. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to anything.

 

I've ordered another latch mechanism off ebay so I can have a look how it works (and because it obviously needs replacing). At least the door card is off. However I've got a feeling this is going to be a right PITA to sort now that I can't get the door open again.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed on that front? Am I going to have start hacking away with a dremel inside the door?


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#14 OFFLINE   Dave_Q

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 07:02 PM

I take it the door card is still off?

What I would do is get one of these:

https://rover.ebay.c...tm/263089616120

And a pokey tool like this:

https://rover.ebay.c...tm/152506596737

Use them to look/poke inside the door and pull on the bit of the latch that the rod normally pulls on.


PS, I have just bought the very same camera and its way less shit than the price would suggest.

The seller is lying about their location as it took about 2 weeks to turn up, they ship from China to a UK warehouse so it looks like it was posted domestically, all I can say is if they are really located in Manchester it took an awful long time to get the 30 miles or so over the hill to me.

If you're in a rush you can probably get it quicker for more ££.

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#15 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 07:32 PM

Yeh, the door card's still off thankfully

 

Good shout Dave, I think I'll have one of them for £4. Hopefully once I get a working latch in front of me I can figure something out.



#16 OFFLINE   Talbot

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 07:36 PM

Not only ill it run on veg, but as an OM605 unit, it will run on bloody anything that burns, and you need not worry about lubricity of the fuel, as the injection pump is an inline bosch jobbie that is lubricated with a pressure feed of engine oil.

Veg, used engine oil, used dexron oil, parafin, coal tar, bitumen, bloody anything* will burn in this.

That said, the fuel tank is a very odd two-sided affair which sits under the rear seat, and there is a very complex system built into the tank that uses the returning fuel from the engine to venturi fuel from the "other" side of the tank so it can be used in the pick-up side. This stops working properly on veg, so some tank mods are needed. Also, if you are running out of fuel with a quarter showing, this system may be beginning to fail. Lots of info about it on merc owners forums.

Also, if you're feeling like it, the basic engine is good for about 350hp, and there are a couple of companies that make larger "elements" for the injection pump to fully utilise said inherent strength. 250hp can be had without even changing the turbo.

Top buy. Will last for another 20 years if you cavity wax it.
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#17 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 07:46 PM

I think it's already doing the fuel tank thing, previous owner said it runs out when it shows a quarter full but I haven't been brave enough to test it yet. I did have a read on some Merc forums, but I really don't fancy dropping the tank so I was planning on living with this anyway.

 

I was thinking of maybe trying it out on veg in the summer but do you reckon it'd be ok now? I always thought it tended to clog things up in cold temps?



#18 OFFLINE   Talbot

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 07:53 PM

Depends on how much blend you put in. I'd start at 20% veg and work your way up. Ideally you'd want a heated twin-tank system, but that is quite a bit of work.

If you can live with the reduced range, I would for the moment... you have to remove the prop to drop the fuel tank. My landlord had an estate w202 many years back that had this fault (petrol one) and I stupidly offered to do it. Changing the tank was a twazzock of a job.
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#19 OFFLINE   cros

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 08:13 PM

Magnificent buy.


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#20 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 08:32 PM

Depends on how much blend you put in. I'd start at 20% veg and work your way up. Ideally you'd want a heated twin-tank system, but that is quite a bit of work.

If you can live with the reduced range, I would for the moment... you have to remove the prop to drop the fuel tank. My landlord had an estate w202 many years back that had this fault (petrol one) and I stupidly offered to do it. Changing the tank was a twazzock of a job.

Out of interest what needed doing to fix it, swapping the tank & sender(s) for a known good one?



#21 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:58 PM

Not the most interesting update but I've been on at this again today. With a new (old) lock mechanism in front of me I was able to figure out what needed prodding to get the door open by looking at what each mechanism ultimately moved. This sounds pretty easy but when you see the size of the part off the car and the space you have to work in when it's fitted inside the door, you can see why it's a bit tricky

 

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Anyway, after copious amounts of poking various instruments through those access holes I had some success

 

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So with the door back open, all I had to do was swap the old & new lock mechanisms. This proved to be a bloody nightmare as despite all the fixings being removed it just wouldn't come out. I must have dicked about for an hour pushing, twisting and turning it but it just seemed as though the door skin was fitted when this was already in place and obviously it was impossible to see properly. I had already removed the outer handle and couldn't see anything else that could come off. That was until I knocked the area where the handle is and dislodged one of the seals which revealed 2 screws that held this on inside the door

 

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That's the back side of the external handle which sits in between the lock mechanism and the door skin (which you can't see at all from inside). With that fecker removed the lock mechanism virtually fell out. Thankfully, after that it all went back together quite easily. One of the clips that holds one of the rods in place partially broke so that each time the rod was clipped in, it would unclip itself once the handle was pulled, however bending the rod slightly took some of the pressure off the clip and it seems to be staying in for now. So that's that, I now have a door that will open and close on request. Riveting I know!

 

I always think jobs where you have to work sight unseen inside doors or under the dash are absolute horrors and this proved to be no exception.


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#22 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:54 PM

This managed to disgrace itself this morning. OH drives it to work, stops at petrol station on the way, puts £10 of diesel in it, then it refuses to restart. I was still home so shot round as it was only about a mile away luckily. It was churning over but wouldn't catch. I thought it might have gotten air in the system somehow (although the clear fuel lines looked ok to me) so I churned it away a few times until the battery gave up. I then attached my battery pack until that gave up. With hope fading fast, we called the RAC (slightly dodgy as it's not my policy), I stayed with the car and OH went to work in my car.

 

RAC man had a look at the fuel lines as I cranked it and said there was loads of air in there. Now when it stopped for fuel orginally it had just over a quarter tank showing on the guage, but started & ran ok (it can't be allowed to drop below this as it can't pick up fuel from the 'other' side of the saddle shaped tank any more). Putting £10 in then took the level to just under half (then it wouldn't start). Seeing as though it still didn't seem to be getting rid of the air after turning it over several times whilst hooked up to RAC man's van, I suggested putting another £10 in which got it between half and three quarters. Then, after another 3-4 prolonged cranking sessions (ooo-errr) it finally chugged into life. I then took it for a blat down the dual carriage way and it was alright then. Started up ok coming home from work too, although it's always been slightly grumbly when very 1st started. I thought it probably had a failed glowplug or 2 but I'm now thinking it's drawing in air somewhere.

 

I've done some googling and it seems the pump seals tend to need replacing around now and can be a bit of twat for air leaks which sounds like a right pain. And there is already this tank pickup issue which may or may not have caused the above. Gonna have a think about its future as it has now been deemed 'totally unreliable' and will not be driven by those unnamed.

 

Arses!

 

Has anyone done the pump seals before on these or anything similar?


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#23 OFFLINE   skattrd

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:56 PM

I had one of these a few years ago and the issue with mine was with the seals on the clear plastic pipes at the front. The main culprit being the one connected to the fuel filter.

Have a look at the clear plastic pipes at the front and trace back to the last one with solid fuel in it. If none have solid fuel flowing then the air leak is either in the first seal or further back down the fuel system.

 

The plastic pipes can be bought from MB themselves for not a lot, iirc about £7-9 each.

Vitron o-rings can be bought for these pipes and are generally advised.

 

However yours does sound like the leak might be further back than mine was if it's an issue at low tank ...


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#24 OFFLINE   Exiled_Tat_Gatherer

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:31 AM

I had one of these a few years ago and the issue with mine was with the seals on the clear plastic pipes at the front. The main culprit being the one connected to the fuel filter.

Have a look at the clear plastic pipes at the front and trace back to the last one with solid fuel in it. If none have solid fuel flowing then the air leak is either in the first seal or further back down the fuel system.

 

The plastic pipes can be bought from MB themselves for not a lot, iirc about £7-9 each.

Vitron o-rings can be bought for these pipes and are generally advised.

 

 

This - I hada similar with mine - it was a £400 ebay snotter that I fell in love with...... really did cry when I slammed a high curb on a local farmers mud deposits..... he was cool and admitted fault which didn't help as it disappeared to the Merc graveyard.

 

I spy a roffle coming!!!! - holding breath ;-)

 

EDIT that is a fantastic piece of kit and looks bloody lovely. Forgot to mention that! Great purchasing



#25 OFFLINE   Talbot

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:04 PM

Out of interest what needed doing to fix it, swapping the tank & sender(s) for a known good one?

The sender was fine, and my landlord was not one for dicking around with second-hand parts, so we just ordered a new tank for it from MB.. was well over £200, but once fitted and the sender swapped over it worked perfectly again.


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#26 OFFLINE   Talbot

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:15 PM

Merc OM605 won't start.


Has anyone done the pump seals before on these or anything similar?

One thing you will find:  If you leave the car full of fuel and park facing downhill it will reliably start.  With 1/4 tank and facing uphill, it may never be able to pull fuel through.  The lift pump from the tank is a tiny little plunger affair in the side of the bottom of the injection pump, which moves about 1cc per stroke.  If it's then trying to pump aerated fuel, it often simply cannot pump hard enough to get fuel up to the injection system.

 

The delivery valve seals on these are dead easy, but the access is a twat:  You have to remove the inlet fannymould to get to them.  Once that is off, it's a 20 minute job to change the seals.

 

The usual culpret for air ingress to these is the o-rings that are part of the clear hoses around the fuel filter and into the injection pump.  There are three different sizes, (including one hidden one) and the best bet is just to change the lot for Viton. 

 

I have changed all of these before on an OM606 (Identical engine with one more cylinder and 500cc more than the OM605) and they are easy enough to do as long as you're gentle and don't force any of the plastic parts as they do break quite easily.  I struggled like hell only changing a few of the seals and still had starting issues, should have just done the lot on day 1.

 

I bought in bulk when I bought my Viton seals, so if you need a kit (and also the special 33-point socket to remove and refit the delivery valves) then I think I have enough to make up a kit of parts for you.

 

As for the tank issue.. you may find that it's the air in the fuel that is causing the system not to work.  It is ludicrously susceptible to fuel density, so as soon as there's some air in there, it may not work properly.  As soon as the air leaks are fixed, you may have full use of the tank again.


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#27 OFFLINE   Barry Cade.

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 03:09 PM

I did the seals and pipes on a W124 300d, as it was having the same issues. whole kit from Merc including all the plastic pipes and seals was about £60 IIRC-  I still have the socket somewhere for the pump pipes. Made a huge difference to the car- I think if it's been run on veg at any point this rots the rubber o rings and speeds up the issue.

 

 


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#28 OFFLINE   Talbot

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 03:12 PM

I think if it's been run on veg at any point this rots the rubber o rings and speeds up the issue.

It does.  Quite dramatically.  The OEM rings are EPDM.  If you want to run Veg (or just to improve matters with a higher quality seal) then Viton is the way to go.


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#29 OFFLINE   J-T

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 11:18 PM

One thing you will find: If you leave the car full of fuel and park facing downhill it will reliably start. With 1/4 tank and facing uphill, it may never be able to pull fuel through. The lift pump from the tank is a tiny little plunger affair in the side of the bottom of the injection pump, which moves about 1cc per stroke. If it's then trying to pump aerated fuel, it often simply cannot pump hard enough to get fuel up to the injection system.

The delivery valve seals on these are dead easy, but the access is a twat: You have to remove the inlet fannymould to get to them. Once that is off, it's a 20 minute job to change the seals.

The usual culpret for air ingress to these is the o-rings that are part of the clear hoses around the fuel filter and into the injection pump. There are three different sizes, (including one hidden one) and the best bet is just to change the lot for Viton.

I have changed all of these before on an OM606 (Identical engine with one more cylinder and 500cc more than the OM605) and they are easy enough to do as long as you're gentle and don't force any of the plastic parts as they do break quite easily. I struggled like hell only changing a few of the seals and still had starting issues, should have just done the lot on day 1.

I bought in bulk when I bought my Viton seals, so if you need a kit (and also the special 33-point socket to remove and refit the delivery valves) then I think I have enough to make up a kit of parts for you.

As for the tank issue.. you may find that it's the air in the fuel that is causing the system not to work. It is ludicrously susceptible to fuel density, so as soon as there's some air in there, it may not work properly. As soon as the air leaks are fixed, you may have full use of the tank again.


Thanks for the info, very helpful. If you still have the bits, I will definitely take you up on that offer. Let me know and I shall send you some coin.

I would like to get it sorted, it’s gotten under my skin a bit, I’m finding that I’m choosing wafting and clattering about in this over boosting and crashing about in the Subaru.
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#30 OFFLINE   Talbot

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 12:38 AM

IIRC you should need 9 off 8mmx2mm O rings, 2 off 10mm x 2mm O rings, 1 off 12mm x 2mm O rings, and then 5 off 14mm x 2mm O rings for the delivery valves.

 

I will, however, check very carefully, as I have got a record of which O-rings go where, just not on the computer I'm using at the moment.

 

What you will also need are the delivery valve copper crush washers, but they are pence each from MB.  Last time I needed some they put them in a squiffy bag and posted them to me for about £2 I think.  I've got the part number somewhere for them, so you can just quote it at an MB main stealer.


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