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Stanky's Geep - 21/01 IT FIRED AND RAN! (for a few seconds) Now contains handbrake fiddling.


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#691 OFFLINE   PhilA

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:37 PM

Huzzah

Running engine is good!


Do you have a timing light?
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#692 OFFLINE   alf892

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:41 PM

Small jubilee clips go oval......useless on small diameter stuff especially on thin wall pipe. get some fuel line clips.....they stay round.

Given it runs with fuel tipped in you maybe need to check/clean the carb.

Try looking down the choke and operating the throttle.....you should see a jet of fuel chucked in by the throttle pump
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#693 OFFLINE   Squirrel2

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:54 PM

Great to see the Geep finally showing signs of life. Congratulations on your perseverance with it!

Squirrel2
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#694 OFFLINE   Carlosfandango

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:56 AM

Outstandingly flabulous.
Squeaky bum Fuelly + Sparky video too!
Nutter.


Well done man. Very happy for you. Looking forward to seeing more progress.

CFD
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#695 OFFLINE   billyboy406v6

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:40 AM

It runs, time for a roffle ?


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#696 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:29 AM

Further Exciting updates! Today, brakes.

 

So, as the engine fired yesterday i thought I;d have a look at the non-functioning passenger side rear handbrake. I;d stripped this down a few weekends ago and cleaned it up, but it wasn;t working which vexed me.

 

Today, in the pouring rain (again) I decided that I'd strip it again and see if I could work out what was wrong. Suspect #1 was the lever on the back of the the drum, apparently these seize with lack of use and so pulling the handbrake lever does nothing at the 'action end'. Trolley jack in, jacked it up, axle stand in, wheel off. Drum off.

 

IMG_20180121_091909039.jpg

 

All the springs! So, out with a screwdriver and needle-nose pliers and start popping them off. The top and bottom orange ones came off without too much struggle, however this one

 

IMG_20180121_094929080.jpg

 

was a complete git. Eventually it came out with a bit more force and nurdling with a screwdriver than I'd really have liked to use. Then, the shoes were only held in with some funny little pins with little springs and plates like washers on the end. It took me a while to realise that the little washer/plate things had cutouts in them and the pins through from the back of the drum had teeth on the ends - it was a case of rotating the washer/plate things until the teeth lines up then the springs sprung off and I could remove the shoes.

 

IMG_20180121_093306465.jpg

 

Access! Next up was to work out why the handbrake did nothing on this drum. There were 2 pegs on this bit (apologies for not knowing the technical terms) which looked like they should actuate the shoes independent of the cylinder, so I guessed this was the handbrake mech. The pegs operated on two rivets/studs and didn't move at all - so careful application of penetrating oil and wiggling with my plumbers wrench eventually had them moving again. this took a little while to do, but eventually seemed to pay off.

 

You can see how grotty there are here, the left one (leading edge) was less grim than the right one, which took a lot of wiggling to ease off. eventually they both freed up to an amount I deemed acceptable. Now it was a case of reassembly.

 

The previously difficult spring was even worse to try and re-locate. This is a very strong spring in a very awkward place!

 

IMG_20180121_094804846.jpg

 

Eventually, through way more luck than skill I managed to get it to locate and pushed it in with the screwdriver. There is probably a tool that makes this job a piece of cake, but I definitely don't have one!

 

IMG_20180121_094929080.jpg

 

Next I reattached the orange springs top and bottom, these were dead easy to refit. i got one upside down but it easily came out and went back in the right way up again.

 

With this all back together I put the drum back on, refitted the wheel, bolted it up, pulled on the handbrake and tried to rotate the wheel

 

 

No resistance. BUGGER IT!

 

So, while the stiff lever was clearly an issue, this was not what was causing the non-functioning of braking on that wheel. it must be further 'upstream'. I had a look and i think i see the problem now. The cable from handbrake goes to the drivers side drum via a t-piece. The t-piece had a separate tube that runs to the passenger side drum. I think* what should happen is that pulling the handbrake lever pulls the driver side drum lever directly, but should also tug on the pipe that runs to the passenger side. this is held in with an extrusion which looks like it once had a bush on it, the bush is sadly no more - so the passenger side tube, which should be held rigid can move. I need to fix this, so it is held in place, forcing the cable that runs inside this tube to be pulled rather than the tube itself. A bit like a dead mans handle on a mower - the sleeve is moving but the inner cable is not. This needs to be the other way around, the sleeve/tube has to be held rigid and the cable within needs to move.

 

Does this make sense? Anyone know what I need to google to get a bush for the mechanism? Or if I'm talking rubbish? I'll get a pic of what I'm rambling about later when it stops raining.


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1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
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#697 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:52 AM

It does make sense, gawd knows what bit you'd look for on this though. I'd suspect it's a Mk2 Escort part as I believe the kits often got tailored to specific donor car, so you'd get slightly different brackets to fit Cortina bits compared to what you've got etc.



#698 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 11:09 AM

Did you check the wheel cylinder was free at both ends?

Would be a pity to have to strip it all again...
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#699 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 11:45 AM

Bumhats no I forgot - oh well! Thats something for another day I think.


1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

198? Jago Geep

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#700 OFFLINE   chodweaver

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 01:25 PM

Is this a fair representation of what is happening? The tube at C moves in the direction of the arrow as it's not anchored, so the 'pull' at the T piece does not result in a pull at the nearside hub?43b1f83cda31af09e62e2d07bd0349fc.jpg

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#701 OFFLINE   mitsisigma01

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 01:35 PM

Or is it a cable clamp missing/loose .
Congrats on the very close to running achievement

#702 OFFLINE   Mally

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 02:00 PM

Handbrake cable outer is fastened to flat brk. Flat brk is attached to axle with floppy piece of rubber.

Inner cable attached to lever at wheel cylinder. steel bar from flat brk to other side lever.

Inner cable pulls one side. Outer   cable pulls flat brk, pulling steel bar attached to lever at other side.

 

Photo to follow maybe which will explain in far better terms.



#703 OFFLINE   Mally

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 02:08 PM

Handbrake ESCORT 001.JPG

 

Handbrake ESCORT 002.JPG

 

 

There is ample room in my garden for your axle to join the party whenever you see fit.


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#704 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:18 PM

/\ /\ /\

 

THIS

 

The rubber bung by your left foot is what is missing, which when pulling force is applied along the pipe what happens is the entire pipe/sleeve moves, rahter than the intended idea of the cable within the sleeve moving in isolation.

 

Have some dire photos of the underside of the Geep, in the rain.

IMG_20180121_154705679.jpg

 

IMG_20180121_154720943.jpg

 

As you can clearly* see, there should be a bung/bush in this void between the clip and the pipe/sleeve (yes I know its well manky) - at present what happens is the sleeve moves over to the right hand side of the picture when the handbrake is applied. This should stay put (I think that this bush thing provides friction stopping the sleeve from moving) when the handbrake is applied.

 

I reckon that maybe if I can get a dry day, then I can slide underneath with a pair of calipers and measure the diameter of the sleeve, and the diameter of the clip to work out how thick a bung is needed to fill the hole. It'll need to go in in 2 parts i suspect, and be sort of D shaped. I can probably cut down an ARB bush or something maybe?

 

Mally, can you get a cose-up pic of the rubber bung in that axle so i can see what sort of thing I need? (not immediately obvs), and possibly how it looks like it should locate? That pic makes it look like it should have a lip one end?


1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

198? Jago Geep

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#705 OFFLINE   Talbot

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:29 PM

Are you sure there's a cable down the centre of that "tube"?  It looks like a not-dis-similar setup to the Mk2 and Mk3 cavalier, in that essentially the inner cable is attached to one side handbrake lever, and the cable outer is connected to the other side handbrake lever.  When you pull the lever on, the load on the inner cable is equal and opposite to the load on the cable outer, so the handbrake levers are pulled on by the same amount.

 

It looks very much like the rod from the cable terminator side over to the other side handbrake lever is siezed in place somewhere.  I suspect the bush you're referring to is simply a guide to stop it clattering about while you drive.


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#706 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:39 PM

Are you sure there's a cable down the centre of that "tube"?  It looks like a not-dis-similar setup to the Mk2 and Mk3 cavalier, in that essentially the inner cable is attached to one side handbrake lever, and the cable outer is connected to the other side handbrake lever.  When you pull the lever on, the load on the inner cable is equal and opposite to the load on the cable outer, so the handbrake levers are pulled on by the same amount.

 

It looks very much like the rod from the cable terminator side over to the other side handbrake lever is siezed in place somewhere.  I suspect the bush you're referring to is simply a guide to stop it clattering about while you drive.

 

That makes sense, though I'm fairly sure there is a cable inside the tube - note the gaiter in Mally's picture?

 

assuming I'm wrong though (and this is the default position!) then why would one side work and the other not, when we know that the levers on the back of the drum are freed up now?


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1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

198? Jago Geep

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#707 OFFLINE   spartacus

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:57 PM

It's not to do with that bung. My money is on a seized or slipping automatic adjuster. You need to take it apart, give it all a really good clean of with a wire brush then reassemble it using a very small amount of oil, (one drop), to lube any pivot points. If there is an automatic adjuster fitted it will look like a fine ratchet, these get filled with brake dust and slip. The other culprit could be that one of the cables has seized in its outer sleeve, thus only pulling one brake on.
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#708 OFFLINE   Mally

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 09:17 PM

It's not a tube, its a solid rod.

My rubber bung looks one sided, from memory there should be a lip at both sides?

Anyway you can have mine if it comes out, but as said I don't think the lack of rubber matters.

Your rod looks different to mine, looks like yours ends shortly after the 'rubber' but has another length of bar attached?

My gator is on the end of the cable. The cable is not connected to the rod at all.

They don't have automatic adjusters, there's a square on the back plate to turn. Usually rusted up!

 

Read my post before the photos, its difficult to follow, but when 'gator' pulls, the outer cable causes the brk to move towards the left. The rod is bolted to this brk, therefore the rod moves left, other end of rod pulls brake on other side.

 

It's even harder to follow that!


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#709 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 09:28 PM

I plan to get someone to pull the handbrake on and let it back off again several times while I lie underneath and watch exactly what happens then will re-read this and it should all make perfect sense!


1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

198? Jago Geep

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#710 OFFLINE   Mally

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 09:46 PM

On my photo, the rod has two nuts, one each side of a plate. the cable outer works just underneath the nuts, by pressing on the same plate.

 The plate I refer to has a flat piece of rubber which attaches it to the axle and allows sideways movement.

You need to watch for sideways movement at the plate/flat rubber.

It is possible to adjust the nuts along the rod to increase pull at the other end but this is not normally required.



#711 ONLINE   timolloyd

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 09:47 PM

I plan to get someone to pull the handbrake on and let it back off again several times while I lie underneath and watch exactly what happens then will re-read this and it should all make perfect sense!


I read that a bit quickly, as you lying down while someone pulls you off several times
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#712 OFFLINE   Talbot

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:06 PM

That makes sense, though I'm fairly sure there is a cable inside the tube - note the gaiter in Mally's picture?

 

Both photos are of the cable terminator side of the axle.  What's on the other side?



#713 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:51 PM

I read that a bit quickly, as you lying down while someone pulls you off several times

 

Chance would be a fine thing! Mind you, once this baby is roadworthy I'm going to be fighting the laydeez off with a shitty stick, right? Right? errrr...


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1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

198? Jago Geep

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#714 ONLINE   DeeJay

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 11:06 PM

I've said it before

 

https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.42385324...

 

Hope you have a big stick ready for the fan club.

 

You won't be able to find a big enough stick.


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#715 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted Yesterday, 02:00 PM

Sounds like you've got the advice needed for the handbrake now, however...

http://www.burtonpow...sh-sf1828k.html

This is the bush you need which your currently missing.
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#716 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted Yesterday, 03:58 PM

Top man, thanks Dan!


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1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

198? Jago Geep

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#717 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted Yesterday, 08:21 PM

microscopic update. 18mm P-Clips arrived today, I R SIMPLETUN and assumed the measurement referred to inner diameter, so the 8mm ones were a bit, ummm, tight? These new ones should have enough room to accomodate the sidewalls of the pipe too, and not choke off the fuel supply.

 

I'll fit them next weekend and carefully remove the old fuel line in case it might yield some useful parts. At present the new fuel line is cable tied to the old one...


1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

198? Jago Geep

368728.png


#718 OFFLINE   Exiled_Tat_Gatherer

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Posted Today, 11:15 AM

Top marks fella - nothing beats that first cough of potential life.... onwards and upwards is the only way to go. Looking forward to a rolling video in the very near future - always set goals ;-)

 

Managed any further investigation on the handbrake cable/levers?



#719 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted Today, 11:25 AM

Sadly not, I'm mildly peeved that friday was a lovely, sunny, dry day - then it poured with rain all weekend, and then yesterday was sunny and dry again. Sod being stuck in an office on a dry day when i could be fixerating the Geep!

 

I'll need someone to apply the handbrake while i lie underneath and watch what moves and what doesn't - but need a dry day for that. Sod lying in a puddle with bits of rust falling in my eyes!


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1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

198? Jago Geep

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#720 OFFLINE   danthecapriman

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Posted Today, 02:48 PM

I know how you feel! It pisses me off immensely when the weekend is wet and when your back at work the suns out.

I'm a bit busy lately, got a few things going on at home and work, but if you ever want a hand doing anything, even if it is just pulling the handbrake lever, just give me a shout and I'll try to pop over if I can. It's no bother!
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