320touring Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Having become use to the somewhat unerring reliability of my 1959 Oxford, I decided to try and sort this out. Previously, the code reader had reported "multiple cylinder missfire". A cardboard test had shown #4 injector had a poor spray pattern, so it was swapped it. The missfire got better, but still remained. With sister car #54 sitting raised up, I took the opportunity to do some substitution elimination. Generally, on the F4R, missfires are down to one of 4 things1. Injector failure2. Coilpack failure3. Plug lead failure4. Spark plugs. (They need some "super long service interval" specific plugs) First up was to eliminate the injectors. So I pulled the whole injector rail off of #54 and swapped it to #60. This gave me 4 known good injectors, so out for a test drive I went. It was driving lovely, pulling beautifully and I was having my confidence restored. I stopped at a set of traffic lights and the the missfire came back. Interestingly, the car was fully up to temp by this point. I took it back and parked it up in disgust. Coprolalia, beko1987 and The Moog 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 After a nice day cleaning and playing with the Toledo and Oxford, I decided to apply what logic I had left to the situation. My brother and I set to work in the dark, in -2 degrees. A happy working environment it was not. With the missfire returning when the car was up to temp, We suspected something was getting warm and failing on the ignition circuit. We decided to strip the whole Coilpack/leads/plugs package off of #54 and fit it to #60.Even going as far to keep the sparkplugs in the same order so they were matched to the same injector, plug lead and coil pack point as on the other engine. #60's upper manifold was removed, Like most 16v engines, the spark plugs live way down in a hole in the middle of the head. Back in the day, I'd jetwashed #54's engine and got a missfire. Solved by drying stuff out. Imagine my surprise* when it turned out that 3 of the 4 plugs were rusty.. not only that, they were not the correct plugs! The car had been sitting for about 7 months when I got it, so there was every chance they'd got wet and grumpy. We fitted the known good stuff and went for a drive. Performance was gooood - staying squirrelly through 3rd gear (no traction control on the ph1s) We travelled further than previous, and the car was fully up to temp with no missfire. She gets to be the 'station car" this week. If she behaves, she may go further afield thereafter. Please cross your digits in the customary fashion! The Moog, Coprolalia, DVee8 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Is it just the jazzy high power F4Rs that need fancy plugs? My Espace (36bhp down on a 172 mind) requires fairly Boggo ones I'm sure, last set were less than a tenner I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moog Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Aside from freezing digits, it should be a fairly low cost fix .. Plus you can have a dram to warm up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beko1987 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Could be a nice easy fix then! The Zafira kangaroo'd all over the shop when the plugs went on that, had to properly granny it up to speed rather than accelerate normally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dome Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just shows you, start with the obvious stuff. I rarely do... CreepingJesus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclecalzone Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Yeah you must only use those ngk iridium plugs, literally there is no other alternative that will give proper service which is rather ridiculous Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 320touring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 This has has a fairly busy couple of days.. It went on my 95 mile round trip commute on Wednesday, completing it with nae bother. I fuelled up in Edinburgh Wed afternoon, and got a frankly worrisome 27mpg for the last tank. It had been overfuelling like a bitch. Resetting the trip saw a more pleasing 44odds showing on the dash when home. Thursday was the big test - 135 miles in a day going Glasgow, Moffat, Melrose, Otterburn. In particular, this was worrisome for two reasons: 1. This was supposed to be a pleasant overnight trip with the Burd 2. The a708 out of Moffat to Selkirk is A LEGEND OF A ROAD! I didn't want anything to go wrong. We made Moffat with no hassle, so I took this pic and we went for coffee. Down to Otterburn was no bother. Hertz, Coprolalia and dome 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beko1987 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 But... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 The next morning, we had a belter of a breakfast and checked out. Got to the car and dumped the bags. Got inside and was met with a resounding lack of dash lights. I turned the key a couple of times in disbelief. But, LO, it wuldnae start Swearing, I popped the bonnet. The negative battery lead looked at me accusingly. Ensuring there was actually a connection resulted in a firing of the F4R and we were aff. There were a couple of tractors on the a72 as we headed for Peebles (and the best chocolatier in Scotland). This resulted in at least 10 miles of bimblery, and an average mpg over 50 miles of: Even whilst GLF They are pretty economical The Moog, dome, Coprolalia and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split_Pin Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 That is indeed surprisingly economical, very impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 That is indeed surprisingly economical, very impressive!I reckon she should be on the nose of 40mpg for this tank. I hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split_Pin Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I have owned smaller engined cars with far worse economy than yours i.e. lots more petrol for much less fun! Sounds like a grand all rounder there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 I have owned smaller engined cars with far worse economy than yours i.e. lots more petrol for much less fun! Sounds like a grand all rounder there.The fundamental thing is this bugger has the torque to just roll on the power in 4/5th at 2000rpm so you dont need to shift down. Apply fully throttle in 3rd though and overtaking (@90mph) is a readily accessible possibility. We'll see what the actual figures from this tank are - I always distrust OBC readouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split_Pin Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Yeah I was thinking that it might be something to do with the balance of an engine small enough not to be a gas guzzler but big enough to be unstressed (and provide funs!) 320touring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclecalzone Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Was the temperate gauge sitting just below half after a long run? If that’s the case then you may have a thermostat that’s stuck open, had this a few times over the years causing a few mpg oddities Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 320touring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Was the temperate gauge sitting just below half after a long run? If that’s the case then you may have a thermostat that’s stuck open, had this a few times over the years causing a few mpg oddities Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCar has always shown that once up to temp. Mpg tank to tank seems about normal. Plenty to do before thermostat at the moment:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertz Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Like these little Clio's. I used to stop in Moffat quite a bit (from Seafield), there is a nice bakers/pie shop. Had many a scotch pie in there over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Yeah I was thinking that it might be something to do with the balance of an engine small enough not to be a gas guzzler but big enough to be unstressed (and provide funs!)That's why a lot of vehicles here have large engines. Long range, steady cruising capability with the ability to get up and go. My Dodge with a 5.7 liter engine would do better fuel economy at 70 than my Renault with a 2.0, and that's mostly down to the gearing. Renault does 3500 RPM at 70, the Dodge was bumbling along at 1850. Drop the speed to 45, and the Renault massively does better, close to 55mpg where the Dodge would struggle to top 40. Horses for courses. 96hp against 375. 1996lbs against 4140. It's making me want to see how much an F4R would be to replace my F3R. I wonder if the bottom end is the same... Phil Skizzer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 I'm sure I could come by one with not too much effort- shipping it to the states could be a pain.. Top engine though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraser.innes.3 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 After reading this for the last couple of months, I hopped into eBay and started looking. I then expanded my horizons and am now the highest bidder on a Megane 225 with 4 hours til the end of the auction. Cheers mate. That's what happens when you wake up on the sofa still pissed after celebrating your birthday I suppose. Sent from my HUAWEI M2-A01W using Tapatalk The Moog, Sigmund Fraud, Tickman and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beko1987 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 After reading this for the last couple of months, I hopped into eBay and started looking. I then expanded my horizons and am now the highest bidder on a Megane 225 with 4 hours til the end of the auction. Cheers mate. That's what happens when you wake up on the sofa still pissed after celebrating your birthday I suppose. Sent from my HUAWEI M2-A01W using TapatalkGive in to the French, you know you want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraser.innes.3 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Give in to the French, you know you want to!Already have 2 Meganes!!! Sent from my HUAWEI M2-A01W using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 After reading this for the last couple of months, I hopped into eBay and started looking. I then expanded my horizons and am now the highest bidder on a Megane 225 with 4 hours til the end of the auction. Cheers mate. That's what happens when you wake up on the sofa still pissed after celebrating your birthday I suppose. Sent from my HUAWEI M2-A01W using TapatalkI accept no responsibility;) And I'll have that turbo lump off you if the rest of the Megane is pish:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraser.innes.3 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I accept no responsibility;) And I'll have that turbo lump off you if the rest of the Megane is pish:)The turbo lump is destined for my 2001 Megane cabby. Hopefully breaking the rest will pay for it, but as you know, I will drive it home, like it, then that will be another one to antagonize the wife with!! Sent from my HUAWEI M2-A01W using Tapatalk Tickman and 320touring 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 366 miles from wed evening til Sunday at 11.40am. 41.43L used, giving 40.16mpg. Pretty damn good for a wee charger. Mr Tickman can confirm that it goes well - as borne out by his wee shot of it the day. The Moog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickman Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 366 miles from wed evening til Sunday at 11.40am. 41.43L used, giving 40.16mpg. Pretty damn good for a wee charger. Mr Tickman can confirm that it goes well - as borne out by his wee shot of it the day. Guilty, goes very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moog Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Has he bought it yet? 320touring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickman Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Has he bought it yet? I have bought nothing yet, just a matter of time... 320touring, The Moog and dome 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moog Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Thats like catnip to 320touring car sales and advert forwarding service... 320touring and dome 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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