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306 DTurbo with diesel knock and long MOT..£120 Bolton.


sporty-shite

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The 306 shat it's aux belt tensioner last week, and shredded the belt. I limped it home, mainly because I couldn't be arsed to wait for breakdown.

 

Anyway, in the last half mile or so, it developed a diesel knock, and seemed to be smoking a bit. I've now done the belt and tensioner, and need to sort out the knock. Would it be as simple as pump timing, or possibly something more sinister?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Edit: I've rechecked the timing, and it was a tooth out on the cam. Re timed it, checked after two turns, and it's now worse than ever. Struggles to start, won't rev, diesel knocking like a chap and smoking like a lab Beagle. So, I'm done. I can no longer be arsed. Cartakeback are offering £116 collected. It's got half a tank of juice in it, so a shitter can have it for £120. If not, I'll drain the juice and send it away. Bit of a shame, but I just don't have the time to keep messing with it.

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How far did you manage before the knock started?

 

Pump timing is a likely culprit, possibly more likely to have jumped a tooth than physically moved the pump?

 

I think all these have timing adjusted by swinging the pump on its bracket rather than a floating pulley?

 

Would try timing it to tdc first and inserting the correct bolts etc to see if its timed right, shout up if you need to know where they go.

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How far did you manage before the knock started?

 

Pump timing is a likely culprit, possibly more likely to have jumped a tooth than physically moved the pump?

 

I think all these have timing adjusted by swinging the pump on its bracket rather than a floating pulley?

 

Would try timing it to tdc first and inserting the correct bolts etc to see if its timed right, shout up if you need to know where they go.

It was about 6 or 7 miles before it started to knock. Is it likely to have jumped a tooth, seeing as the timing belt is shielded from the aux belt? I'll try swinging the pump a bit. Does this have to be done in staged with the engine off, or can ti be done with the engine running?

 

Sorry if that's a stupid question, but diesels are an unknown to me.

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Yep, pump timing. My xantia did this when it ate its aux belt and shredded a few teeth. Is it blowing out white smoke and being an arse to keep running without throttle?

 

Depending on what proper job you want to do, a timing belt (assuming 1.9td) from ecp for £14 and an aux belt for £10,and some m8 bar, and time the lot up again. Mine was fine afterwards, although slightly more Tappy after a few months, but then exploded its engine 9 months later although I think that was the result of its previous lives rather than that specifically

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You can advance and retard the timing by loosening the pump bolts and moving it forward for advance and pull towards to retard, can be done with two people with engine running, one to start and one to hold pump so it doesn't move when started.

I'd bet it has jumped a tooth and would check all timing pins fit before trying to move the pump, personally.

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I had similar symptoms with one of my vans. Turned out a shred of drive belt had made it into where the timing belt goes round the crank pulley and knocked the timing out.

At first it started sounding (even more) like an old tractor. Ten miles down the road it started shitting blue smoke out the exhaust as well.

Bloke who mended it was like: "you're lucky it's not a vivaro mate, when this happens to them it snaps the timing belt.

 

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

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You can check the timing without dismantling anything except the top cambelt cover.

 

See from about 2:30 on in this vid.

 

 

You can lock the crankshaft with an allen key or similiar put through a hole under the starter, and with this locked you should also be able to get bolts into the cam and fuel pump sprockets as shown in the video. 

 

I'd imagine that one or both of them won't quite line up.

 

I would not recommend swinging the pump without checking this first - small adjustments on the pump can mess up the timing and if it's the belt that's the issue you're just making a job for yourself by moving the pump when it may not be needed.

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Take the front driver's wheel off and remove the Arch liner too. Then get a breaker bar, 19mm(i think) socket and some extension bars to take out outside of the wing. Put it in neutral and turn the engine clockwise that way.

 

Plenty of help available on here I went from not having a clue and nearly crying to having it done and sorted over a weekend and driving to work on Monday thanks to help on here!

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This is almost guaranteed to be a timing belt tooth slip, but it will be impossibke to tell if it's slipped on the crank, cam or inj pump (or a combination thereof).

 

Get a timing belt and an aux belt and do them both. Timing belt on a 306 xud is not too hard, just access can be a bit tight in places and you find yourself alternatively up and down between the wheelarch and the top of the engine a lot.

 

How long since it had a water pump? Given that the aux belt and timing belt have to come off to do the water pump, now is the time.

 

Allow half-a-day to DIY it. The biggest ballache is having to support the engine on the sump while you take the driver side engine mount off. Also the rear belt cover bolt if it's a later model is a twazzock to get to. And a different size from all the others (11mm not 10mm iirc).

 

Don't just try to get the timing back by moving the pump. If you do you'll loose the timig of the pump to the engine, which needs a dial indicator to set back again and is a very boring job.

 

There are a fair number of guides on tinternet as to how to do this job, but if you need a step by step or guidance, I have done so many of these I've lost count now.

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Thanks for all the replies. It's already had an aux belt, after the tensioner failed, so I can re-use that. There's someone looking to do a deal on a Focus through Facebook, so ideally, I can let him have it, and add a few quid. Otherwise, I'll just swap the belt, and hopefully, it'll go well.  Just glad it's not my daily at the moment, so I don't have to rush anything. 

 

Wish me luck!

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  • 3 weeks later...

ok, so I finally got round to looking at this. Bits of aux belt had got through to the timing belt, and it had jumped, so I googled instructions, removed the belt (and shreds of aux belt), inserted various pins and bolts, and re-timed it. Fired up, and sounds better, but not 100%. I wonder if it may still be a tooth out, or whether the pump is a bit out, seeing as I arsed about with it slightly. 

 

Someone has been to look at it today, and reckons it isn't boosting, although I'm not entirely convinced of that. 

 

Anyway, the long and short of it is, I'm near the end of my patience, skill and time with it. I no longer need it, since I've now acquired Mrs S's BINI (but that's another story), so has anyone got either any suggestions, or offers for it. If there's any interest, I'll post up some photos and a video so you know how it sounds.

 

Over to you, shiters.......

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It can't be much! I can't be arsed to run over to Bolton but I'd just double check the timing then back off the pump a bit so it doesn't knock; it can't be out far! What sort of pump is it? If it's the Lucas with the cold start device working now ambient temperatures are at their current level it will have a good bit of diesel crack as standard until it warms up.

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On the pump pulley isn't the hole more than 8mm?.....my experience on this engine is limited to when they were in 305 vans. On those this was certainly the case and I remember turning up a pin with an 8mm thread and then a thicker section for the pulley to be on the safe side.

 

Anyway if you use a bolt it is possible to get the belt on a tooth out....which way depends on when you tension it.

 

Did you recheck timing after a couple of turns?

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It’s a 309 but do you have any other details? The TD Citroen ZX I had a few months ago went like an absolute rocket. Still have the engine and box if anyone needs it

Might be a good idea!!!

 

306 DTurbo 3 door in metallic blue. Rear beam is a bit creaky, it needs a back box, has a cracked screen and the drivers window mechanism is borked. It's MOT'd to April (from memory) 127000 miles. Drives really well (when it's running!), interior is mint. I'm on my phone at the minute, but I'll find and post some pics later.

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