The Rover 400 WBOD Now with dent free doors and brakes

[Sir Snipes]

I think this one is going to be a money pit as after cleaning the caliper up and putting it back together I noticed that the pedal sometimes drops to the floor when braking so the system isn't holding pressure and the only thing I've touched is the caliper and pads on the OSR.

 

Would it be possible that I could of damaged the master cylinder as when I first started trying to free it up and wind it back in I forgot to take the lid off the master cylinder.

 

To be honest I should of done what junkman suggested and binned the lot I guess but at the time I thought it would be a good idea to try and save a bit so I guess it's going to have to go to the garage before I start using it.

 

Anyone know of a good place online for a new caliper.

Possible you may have flipped the master cyl seals. If you have one, clamp the flex to that caliper and see if you get the pedal back.

[twosmoke300]

Very unlikely unless it's a 90's Vauxhall

[Asimo]

The master cylinder reservoir has a breather hole so no harm can have come just from winding back the piston and pushing some fluid back to the reservoir. Is it using fluid? If so is it leaking from the caliper you just had the fight with?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

You must just have not bled it properly

[Vince70]

I did bodge it I as got the piston out the caliper and cleaned it up the best I could using a lot of brute force and ignorance as it was seized and I sprayed loads of freeze spray around the piston and filled the bore of the caliper with the stuff to get it to move.

 

It moves freely now but I I wasn't able to bleed it as the bleed nipple was seized solid but I will try again tomorrow but i think rimmer brothers do a NOS caliper for a reasonable cost so when the wheel is off I will see if I can get a part number if it comes to the worst.

 

I can't see any leaks though so I guess that's a good sign.

[HH-R]

Do these use the same Lucas calipers as the equivalent civic?

[Vince70]

Yes it's a Lucas one the same as a civic I'm going to get the part number tomorrow once I've I get the wheel off, I guess I should of taken the part number off the caliper before putting the wheel back on lol.

 

The rear disc on mine is 239mm but I think there's two different types on the 400 as some of the later 400/45 have a 260mm disc.

[twosmoke300]

New caliper - job done . Using spray lube will fuck the seals anyway . Only ever use silicone or rubber grease

[Lacquer Peel]

New caliper - job done . Using spray lube will fuck the seals anyway . Only ever use silicone or rubber grease

Are all red greases the same?

I have loads of red chainsaw clutch bearing grease and have used it on caliper sliders with no ill effects.

[sierraman]

If you haven’t bled it and the cylinders been out there will be loads of air in the system now. I’d probably suggest if you haven’t got one using some sort of pressure bleeder when you fit the new caliper.

[twosmoke300]

Red grease needs to be silicone based not mineral . There are plenty of red mineral greases . It slowly swells the seals

[Vince70]

The handbrake is working and releasing ok and stops the car without binding and the brakes seem to work just the pedal needs pumping and drops to the floor but it’s leak free.

 

But I know my luck and a will end up breaking the top off a bleed nipple and I really don’t like the idea of working off the rover scissor jack so I think I will take it down the my local friendly garage and let them repair it.

 

The only problem is I feel a bit bad giving someone else a problem I’ve created with my bodging and obviously being a WBOD I didn’t want to spend money on the old girl.

[sierraman]

I’d save the cost of paying the garage on a £23 jack from Toolstation, then £10 on a vacuum bleeder. Changing a caliper is piss easy, slacken the union, crack caliper bolts off then spin the caliper off, swat a new one one, bleed it, have it done in 30-40 mins.

[Eddie Honda]

Are all red greases the same?

 

No.

 

Look up the MSDS for these two for instance. Completely different.

 

Silkolene Pro RG2: http://www.fuchsnet.gr/data/PID/232401_PID.pdf

 

Fuchs Renolite Red Rubber Grease: http://www.workshopwarehouse.co.uk/downloads/dl/file/id/1097/vc188.pdf

[Eddie Honda]

Red grease needs to be silicone based not mineral . There are plenty of red mineral greases . It slowly swells the seals

 

Does it? That RRG above is veggie oil based. 

[Vince70]

Today I've popped over to Brighton and got the pair of passenger side doors which are in near new condition so some time during the week I will pop those on.

 

The guy should of been on here really and I wish I got a picture of his mint F reg freight rover which was running on a set of rostyles.

 

He was telling me the doors were off his 400 and when it was time for it to go to the bridge he decided to put the T series into his Sherpa which he said made it quite a lively performer and he had the van for 20 years and You could really see it was his pride and joy.

 

So the jobs this week are to pop the doors on and I will have another go at cracking the bleed nipple open.

I've just disconnected the wiring looms from my doors and it looks like quite straightforward job but I will wait till I've got someone to give me a hand to lift them in position while I bolt them up.

[New POD]

Do these use the same Lucas calipers as the equivalent civic?

 

They were NOT exactly the same IIRC.

I did some work at Lucas Car Braking at Pontypool (in 1993/94) when I worked for Lucas Industries, and we did a corporate project on managing variety at the design stage, and the Rover / Honda brakes were one example where the customer exerted great (perhaps too much) pressure to incorporate their preferred features. Things like a undercut vs a sharp edge at the bolt shank to head interface, instead of a larger machined chamfer on the casting, going into the threaded hole.  

Different hydraulic seal and dust seal designs (but the same diameter pistons)

Different sized bleed nipples (At the time lucas had 152 different OE bleed nipples across their worldwide plants - all demanded to be a particular size by different customer design teams)

And obviously loads of different pad materials for different models to give a different feel.

They should be interchangeable, but I'd make sure I had a matched pair. either both with a Honda casting or both with a rover casting.

[New POD]

 I really don’t like the idea of working off the rover scissor jack so I think I will take it down the my local friendly garage and let them repair it.

 

 

 

How much are axle stands ?  Where are you? I have 2 spare sets of ramps, which in the past I would use instead of axle stands. I'll GIVE you a pair.

[Vince70]

Today I decided while the weather was looking ok to put the doors on and I can’t believe how good the fit and colour match is.

I did nearly end up bridging the thing when I lost my rag with it as I noticed the door was hitting the wing because I must have pushed it in when fitting the front door and it decided it wouldn’t open or close.

My girlfriend came up with the idea of using a fish slice to bend the wing back in position and it worked perfectly and didn’t leave a mark on the car.

In fact the only way you could tell the doors have been changed is the new doors have the registration of the car they came off etched on the rear quarter window.

 

Hopefully now it’s just a matter of bleeding the brakes and giving it a good wax and polish and touch in a few scratches and it will be as good as new.

 

I still prefer the BMW but I might just keep it now as my WBOD for a couple of years.

 

It’s going to be called Rod from now on (Rover of doom)

[They_all_do_that_sir]

I had one in 1400 k series flavour. I quite liked it, I was 18 when I bought it and had just started my first "real" job. It replaced the Corsa I had as my first car and felt like a huge step up.

 

Didn't stop my mates taking the piss though.

 

Double wishbone front suspension too

 

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Vince70]

It's not a bad motor but after the oil change and once the brakes are sorted it won't be getting any more money thrown at it as the 400 or later 45 can be picked up with extremely low mileageand in good nick for around £500.

 

Admittedly most are K series at that price but you still find the odd diesel one at that price as well.

 

But it's looking a lot more respectable now without the dents and I've most probably saved it from the bridge for now but it's one of those cars that will never be sort after.

[Vince70]

Today I managed to get the rover of doom down to the garage and it’s not looking good as when the caliper was pushed back in it might of damaged the master cylinder or ABS pump.

I’m going for the master cylinder option and I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Sounds a bit flakey to me, (the diagnosis I mean)

[Vince70]

I just hope it's not going to end up costing a fortune to repair really as it was supposed to be a cheap banger as being a bit skint I thought it would be a good idea to flog the Bmw as I've got to the point that I don't like leaving it parked anywhere and couldn't let it near the salty roads as its so nice and this was going to be a cheap stopgap car.

 

In the end it could cost me more than I get for my Ti compact so it somehow defeats the object lol.

[BeEP]

Sounds a bit flakey to me, (the diagnosis I mean)

 

I agree.  Did you ever manage to bleed the brakes having had the piston out of the caliper?  If not I'd certainly be starting (or getting the garage to start) with that before progressing to more fanciful theories.

[Vince70]

No I never did manage it as the bleed screw was rounded off and I was worried I would snap it if I had a go with the adjustable spanner as I'm a bit heavy handed at times.

I think looking through the cars history someone had had been there before though

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Well for gods sake don’t start changing ABS pumps or master cylinders till you have bled it through properly!!!!! And don’t take any bullshit from the garage saying it needs this that and the other till the bleed nipple problem is sorted.

[vaughant]

Well for gods sake don’t start changing ABS pumps or master cylinders till you have bled it through properly!!!!! And don’t take any bullshit from the garage saying it needs this that and the other till the bleed nipple problem is sorted.

 

This ^^^^^^

 

 

Just had a total nightmare with my zafira, it was my own fuck up as I got desperate stuck on the M4 by bath with no clutch pedal months back, all I had was engine oil to try and get a pedal which I did but of course it contaminated the system.

 

I sorted the clutch element out ages ago but the pedal always felt crap on the brakes.

 

Renewed the rear pads, full fluid change and now their spot on, really nothing more than that.

 

I read all the horror stories of spun seals, failed master cylinders etc, twas literally a huge bleed job.

[vaughant]

Andddddddddd, literally an hour after posting this ^^^^

 

My brakes start seizing on outside a chip shop in a shitty part of town,great !!!!

 

Left them half hour or so and it drove off ok but everytime I lifted off it was like slamming on, freed off after about 3 miles ok but I can tell they still feel very stiff?

 

Seems on one circuit as well, not a show stopper but I think further work will be required.

 

The joys of shite ownership eh?

[HH-R]

The callipers on these and the equivalent Civic pretty much all end up seizing and making the brakes bind on in the end.

 

My brother's ended up having three replaced (though oddly the OSF was original @ 150k and 18 years old), it would chew up a set of discs and pads a year which garages would gleefully replace. Strangely, neither me or my dad had bother with our Rover 400 and 45 in that way.

 

It wasn't until he changed them himself that he found out the pistons needed Charles Atlas to be wound back and were knackered. They were about 80 quid a shot IIRC for 3rd party callipers, not too bad (in the grand scheme of things anyway).