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Rave's Fiesta Chronicle - Collection, Weldathon, MOT...then Force Hail (P4)

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124 replies to this topic

#31 OFFLINE   IainL

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:03 PM

Worry not. The bit at the back is possibly the only fail point but it will likely just need an MOT standard plate. The bit next the to exhaust is not the fuel tank it's the floor. Out with prescribed area so even if it's a small hole it won't fail. The bit at the front is definitely not a fail, it's the front wing that closes under the sill and is obvs non structural. However the part to the left of that in the pic is the sill and it looks a bit suspect.

I wouldn't disguise anything with underseal yet. Just wazz it in for a test to see where you're at and then have a think.

If you get a pass I would suggest sanding off the surface rust, hammerite it and then some tetrasyl !
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#32 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:16 PM

I think the suspension bushes have been done, looking at the MOT history.

 

Like I say, I really am an ignoramus about bodywork repairs. I have a mig welder, would I be able to pigeon-shit enough metal onto it myself with it jacked up on a driveway, or is it a more involved job than that?

 

The original plan was to dump it on my in-laws driveway for a bit while I figired out what to do with it, but my wife seems to have fallen out with them, so possibly that's no longer a goer. I have nowhere else off road to stash it. I could just leave it on the side road next to my house, in my previous experience you have a while before they figure out it's not insured and start sending you threatening letters.


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#33 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:26 PM

I meant the floor one is next to the tank. It's about 8 inch away.

The bubbling on the sill would go straight through likely as not with a tap. The sills are shot as from what I can see.

You could weld it on the drive, cant see a problem with that. I'd see what else it fails on...
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#34 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:41 PM

Many thanks for this helpful advice both of you!

 

Before I chuck £50 at the MOT man I might as well ensure that it at least has a chance of passing...or that the repairs won't be many hundreds of pounds / hours of burning myself with my crap Aldi MIG. Are the inner and outer sills supposed to be joined together there? Does that gap between them constitute a fail in and of itself? If not, how big a hole would be a fail? I might as well go and attach it with a screwdriver myself now...

 

It does look as if someone has already done a bodge there.

 

Edit: the car really does drive well, handles really tightly, goes over speed bumps without any banging or creaking at all, so I don't think it'll fail on anything other than the bodywork.



#35 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:02 PM

The ends of the sills are yes. Once you go at it with the grinder it will be finding where to weld to. A complete sill might be better than several patches. Bit of a bodge but then depends on your expectations on how long it lasts.

#36 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:02 PM

Right, I stuck a screwdriver in and broke off all the rust and bit of metal that were so loosely attached they were doing nothing for the structural integrity of the car.

 

Nearside ended up looking like this:

 

DSCF7010.JPG

 

The offside seems solid underneath but the inner and outer sections are not attached to each other:

 

DSCF7011.JPG

 

Both sides have what look like patches further forward on the sills:

 

DSCF7012.JPG

 

...they seem to be completely solid.

 

So...miggable by an amateur? Any rough idea how much it would be to pay someone competent to do it to MOT standard?



#37 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:12 PM

Give the ends of the sill on the third picture a hammer?

Yes you could patch it up, what's the bubbling at the front of the sill like?

No idea on cost, depends how much remedial work it needs. If the rest of the sills are ok, you could buy a complete sill and use it to make the patches, save a lot of fabrication.

#38 ONLINE   bub2006

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:39 PM

Well i never realised it needed that much welding. I feel quite bad now.

#39 OFFLINE   Bren

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:39 PM

Those sills have more patches than a recovering nicotine addict. All of it is repairable but you wont know until you get rid of all the rot.

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#40 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:53 PM

Well i never realised it needed that much welding. I feel quite bad now.

 

Don't worry about it, I knew full well what I was potentially getting into- chatting to someone else recently they told me it would definitely not be sound underneath! :D It really is so nice from the floor upwards, and Mk3 Fiestas are now so thin on the ground (presumably because they've all rusted to bits) that I do think it's worth saving.

 

Anyway, there's now no massive urgency about it; an insurance broker who had quoted me something ludicrous like £1500 online just phoned me back and asked if they could run it through again, to which I agreed. Anyway, it turns out that declaring that it is garaged and worth £2k gets it on a classic policy for £384 with my mum as a named driver, so I thought bollocks, it's only money... Got until the MOT expiry on 17th October to do something with it now.

 

So...what about just buying these and having a pop at welding them on myself? Would I be biting off massively more than I can chew? Am I likely to be able to plate up any holes in the inner sills while I'm in there?

 

http://centralpanels...0ed5f3df46ea23a

 

Any shiters vaguely local to me who could show me how it's done? 



#41 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 02:59 PM

Is the Fiesta to replace the 106, or are you fleet expanding?  Wouldn't mind checking out both at some point.

 

Would be lovely to see you again mate, feel free to pop over any time (check I'm about first though, obviously :-P ). If you've got 'driving other cars' cover, you're more than welcome to take them for a spin.


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#42 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:04 PM

What are you wanting from it? Something to smoke about in through winter or are you wanting to do stuff properly?

#43 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:21 PM

What are you wanting from it? Something to smoke about in through winter or are you wanting to do stuff properly?

 

Well, a bit of both. I personally have no intention of ever entering a concours competition as long as I live, but equally I think a low mileage Mk3 Fez in this sort of condition must me a rare thing, so I feel a responsibility to stop it deteriorating further, which would mean doing something better than just bodging it. The increasing rarity of them also makes me think that if I keep it in good nick I ought to be able to sell it on for more than scrap value in the future- I see no reason why the Mk3 won't eventually get old and rare enough to start increasing in value like the Mk1 and 2, or early Metros etc.

 

I keep saying it, but I really know absolutely sod all about bodywork, and the repairing of same. I'm thinking that if I cut all the rust out (or just scrape it off where it's not holed) I ought to then be able to chuck loads of waxoyl and/or underseal about to stop the rest of it going, before I weld it all back up for the MOT. Then if the next owner wants to get it concours they've just got a grotty job scraping it all off, rather than having to replace the entire underside...



#44 ONLINE   steveo3002

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:24 PM

yeh massive difference bettween a patch up for next mot and a proper repair 



#45 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:35 PM

If you replaced the sills I'd be fairly certain the inner sills would require some new metal letting in along the base of the inner sill. It looks like you'll also need a repair to the lower arch as well. If you are doing it proper it depends how much money and time you are happy to throw at it.

What's the filler cap area like? Again if that wants welding it's a tank out job.

#46 OFFLINE   RobT

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:42 PM

Would be lovely to see you again mate, feel free to pop over any time (check I'm about first though, obviously :-P ). If you've got 'driving other cars' cover, you're more than welcome to take them for a spin.

 

I have trouble keeping track on here so missed the fact you won it in a roffle!  Will be in touch about popping over (this week might be tricky as got more decorating to do on brother's house).

 

Les at BL Transverse in South Norwood will patch it up for you fairly cheaply, and the MoT guy he uses passes my Cavalier every year and you should see the state of that.


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#47 OFFLINE   Christine

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:47 PM

Bomb it round the fields.... :-D



#48 OFFLINE   AngusToledo

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:53 PM

Use it for five weeks, then bosh it on eBay starting at £99 with no reserve. I'd mention it's clean and tidy for a 23 year old Ford, but leave it to the seller to look over it. Famous last words, but unless you're after a project and enjoy throwing money at cars, it'll cost more to do 'right' than it'd sell for, unless Mk3 Fez's suddenly jump in value. Can't see that happening for some time yet tbh.

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#49 OFFLINE   tooSavvy

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 04:02 PM

The original plan was to dump it on my in-laws driveway for a bit while I figured out what to do with it, but my wife seems to have fallen out with them, so possibly that's no longer a goer Wedding Anniversary/Xmas ££gift for us to buy, so....

 

:-P

 

TS


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Wallsend?.....it's not the End of the Walled ;<)

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#50 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 04:56 PM

What's the filler cap area like? Again if that wants welding it's a tank out job.

 

It looks immaculate, amazingly enough!

 

I have trouble keeping track on here so missed the fact you won it in a roffle!  Will be in touch about popping over (this week might be tricky as got more decorating to do on brother's house).

 

Les at BL Transverse in South Norwood will patch it up for you fairly cheaply, and the MoT guy he uses passes my Cavalier every year and you should see the state of that.

 

Next week's fine too, I had more or less cleared the decks until I got myself into more trouble with this! :-P Your man could be an option, will chat to you about it when I see you I guess.

 

Use it for five weeks, then bosh it on eBay starting at £99 with no reserve. I'd mention it's clean and tidy for a 23 year old Ford, but leave it to the seller to look over it. Famous last words, but unless you're after a project and enjoy throwing money at cars, it'll cost more to do 'right' than it'd sell for, unless Mk3 Fez's suddenly jump in value. Can't see that happening for some time yet tbh.

 

Well I'm not expecting to make money, just thinking that if I can do some or all of the repairs myself then I'll not be chucking much good money after bad. I have wanted to learn to weld properly for a long time, got to start somewhere, so why not here, I reckon.

 

:-P

 

TS

 

Haha :) It's unlikely to be a permanent fallout. Now it's insured it can stay on the street anyway, I doubt that not having an MOT will get it clamped.


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#51 OFFLINE   eddyramrod

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 05:12 PM

 increasing rarity ........ I see no reason why the Mk3 won't eventually get old and rare enough to start increasing in value like the Mk1 and 2, or early Metros 

May I refer you to the sad tale of Hyacinth?  I wish you better luck than I had, but just be aware you can get awfully involved in something like this, awfully quickly.

And I would bet good money there's a lot more Fiestas around than SD3s.


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#52 ONLINE   SiC

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 05:19 PM

May I refer you to the sad tale of Hyacinth?  I wish you better luck than I had, but just be aware you can get awfully involved in something like this, awfully quickly.
And I would bet good money there's a lot more Fiestas around than SD3s.


Rarity doesn't automatically equal value though! You of all people should know that. ;)

E.g. there are 4 times as many MGBs left on UK roads than are Smart Roadsters, yet the MGBs are worth a lot more. Two very different cars, but very different prices.

Closer example ... far more MGBs left on the roads than Austin 1100, but generally speaking, a well sorted MGB is worth far than the A1100.
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#53 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 05:21 PM

May I refer you to the sad tale of Hyacinth?  I wish you better luck than I had, but just be aware you can get awfully involved in something like this, awfully quickly.

And I would bet good money there's a lot more Fiestas around than SD3s.

 

I saw that, and it was indeed tragic :(. I'm pretty sure this one is a lot more solid to start with, though. Aside from the insurance it owes me less than 100 quid so far including the fuel to drive it home, and I enjoyed my day out, meeting Daz, and the drive home, so I'll try not to let my judgment be clouded. I should hopefully be able to swap the classic policy over to my MX5 as/when I get round to getting it back on the road.


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#54 ONLINE   dodgytom

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 05:21 PM

If you can't do your own bodywork then that is not the car for you, move on.

Still pretty tidy for one on those, most were worse than that 15 years ago. Still worth saving by someone though

Why would I give my valuable time to people I would much rather kick in the eye?


#55 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 06:46 PM

There's a lovely Fiesta for sale elsewhere on the forum, £700 I think, which isn't far off what you'd be looking at for a set of sills putting properly on and painting.

Unless you like welding or it's got some sort of historical significance like it was owned by Fred Wests dentist or something, I'd say frag it if it's going to cost you big time for the MOT.

You could scrape a test on it by patching it but if you are wanting to do it properly it will cost you. A lot. You'd get a full cover sill for £20 probably, weld the fucker over the top.

#56 OFFLINE   Bren

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 07:13 PM

If you can have a go yourself then do so - but paying a garage will be expensive.
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#57 OFFLINE   egg

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:44 PM

I bought a £215 Mondeo.

18 months later I've stopped updating the costs spreadsheet.

Get in deep or get out quick!
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#58 ONLINE   Rave

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 10:42 AM

Right well I've come up with a plan to try and get this sorted. My uncle is a retired engineer; he's finally finished refurbishing his house and has been on at me to come up and see him. He has a driveway and a garage. So I'm going to drive up to Yorkshire in the Fiesta in a couple of weeks while my wife's away on holiday with her parents, and we're going to have a crack at it. He's even volunteered his mate who is apparently pretty handy with a welder, and who apparently rebuilt my uncle's Hilux pickup (sadly he lost his licence a couple of years ago because of his diabetes, so he's flogged the Hilux now...and his XKR, that I never even got to drive :( ). My plan, basically, is to cut the outer sills off, patch up any holes we find on the inner sills / floor, and weld new sills on, then slap waxoyl and underseal about to 1) get it through an MOT and hopefully 2) keep it solid for a few years at least.

 

So...I'm planning on ordering a pair of outer sill repair panels from here, unless anyone can recommend a cheaper/better supplier?

 

http://centralpanels...?cPath=22_42_78

 

I'm thinking I may as well order the arch repair panels as well, they're not particularly expensive, and I could possibly cut repair sections out of them if they're needed. I want to avoid respraying much or any of the car if at all possible though, as I'm sure to do a terrible job!

 

I'll also try and acquire some sheet steel so we can make up patches for any bits of the inner sill and floor that need attention. Any idea what thickness to go for? 1mm, maybe?

 

Anyway, here's my probably non-exhaustive list of things I think we'll need to do the job properly. I'd appreciate comments / people pointing out anything I've missed, as once I'm there and we've cut bits off the car, it'll be a bit of a pain to pop out and buy things we're missing!

 

Mig Welder / Gas / Wire

Welding helmet (thinking of buying an auto dimming one from Machine Mart or the like?)

Welding gauntlets / goggles / dust masks / overalls / work gloves

Steel snips

Angle grinder / grinding wheels / cutting wheels

Wire brush / circular wire brush to go in a drill / flap wheel?

Trolley Jack / axle stands

Fire extinguishers (I have two powder ones here)

Tin of grey primer

Underseal (I know nothing at all about underseal, so advice appreciated)

Waxoyl or similar

Filler?

Maybe some of that rust killing stuff that you paint on to surface rust, which claims to 'convert' it?

Pry bar

Hammer (my uncle will have a vice for us to use to try and shape repair sections, I reckon, will check though)

 

That's all I can think of for the time being. All advice and suggestions appreciated, and no comment will be taken as patronising, I really am an absolute neophyte here! :)


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#59 OFFLINE   theshadow

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 06:21 PM

ive welding worse,done the inner outer sills on my n reg fiesta,and many more... :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


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#60 OFFLINE   AnthonyG

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:01 PM

My friend used Bilt Hamer (think it's spelt like that) rust neutraliser when he was restoring his Viva and was very impressed with it. I think he used Dynax instead of Waxoyl for preventing rust inside sills/box sections and as an underseal.

Practical Classics do detailed comparison tests on these sorts of products, if you know anyone with a stack of back issues it's worth a look through them.

Yes to the arch repair panels if they're at all good they will save you a lot of time folding/cutting flat steel.
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