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Zel's Motoring Adventures...Lada, Citroen, Mercedes & AC Model 70 - 20/04 - Merc MOT Prep Underway


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#1351 OFFLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 07:04 AM

Removing pulleys - 

 

Each has a lock tab washer, so knock that back. 17mm spanner. You can insert a screwdriver into the rear of the drive pulley to lock it. Leave that in place and put the handbrake on and you should be able to release the driven pulley too. Expect to drop the shaft keys. You have to remove both pulleys together.

 

Your biggest problem will be pushing the sheaves apart on the driven pulley. There was a special tool to do this. I found it's just about possible to pull them apart and wedge a bit of wood in to get access to the pulley shaft.

 

I have been warned that the belt has a different profile on each side. Not sure about that, but the belt currently fitted to TWC definitely has a preferred direction of travel. I'd try to keep an eye on the orientation now and aim to match it.


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1972 Invacar Model 70, 1984 Reliant Fox

1986 Citroen 2CV6, 1994 Mazda 323F*cked

1990 Rover 820 1999 Daewoo Matiz

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#1352 OFFLINE   Snipes

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 07:31 AM

I'm not a big Mac fan....


No I hear Burger King do better food but imo can't match McDonalds for milkshakes.
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#1353 OFFLINE   PhilA

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:57 PM

pulleys


That's what I like about this place. The sharing of the most obscure knowledge.

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#1354 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:56 PM

Well I'm glad to report that my new workstation is back up and running.

 

Need to figure out how to get this thing to boot from a USB device so I can get a fresh install on there (as unsurprisingly a few things are a bit cranky given iveI taken the hard drive from one PC and dropped it into a different one with a significantly different architecture - it's enough of a surprise it works at all!), but we are up and running again.

 

Granted...I did nearly kill myself getting the darned thing up onto the shelf.

 

IMG_20190412_223818.jpg

 

I reckon that thing must weigh 30kg or so, easy enough to carry, but far trickier to haul up to shoulder height, especially with a less than stellar spine factored into the equation.

 

Have to admit that the silent running is nice...hadn't realised how noisy the old machine had got.

 

Probably back to your regularly scheduled car and camper mayhem tomorrow you will be glad to hear.


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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1355 ONLINE   timolloyd

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 12:16 AM

Your office chair looks cool - is it a Jaguar seat?
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#1356 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 12:46 AM

Your office chair looks cool - is it a Jaguar seat?


Correct!

From an N plate XJ6 which was being broken by a friend. It's quite scruffy and has a fair few splits, but is comfy. Was going to replace it with the one from my old Xantia in the interests of being less scruffy - but the Invacar has laid claim to that seat so I'll need to find another one now.
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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1357 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 11:13 PM

Right, after a certain degree of head scratching and chasing my own tail, I eventually managed to kick the Mac Pro actually boot from an installation medium.

 

Despite having tried a few things which should work, I couldn't convince it to boot from a USB device.  Playing around with the partition scheme appears to have bricked one of the thumb drives too...will faff around with that later...at least it's only a 4gb freebie - if it was one of the 32gb ones I would have been more irked.

 

One idea which as far as I am aware *should* have worked was to load up an a suitable third party boot program which you can point to external devices.  I have one of these by the name of Plop Boot Manager, I find it quite handy as a couple of PCs here can be really picky about booting from USB devices.

 

This almost worked.  It booted from the CD just fine into the boot manager.  However as soon as I hit enter to tell it to boot from the USB device it got precisely this far then totally hung up.

 

IMG_20190413_231242.jpg

 

Annoying.

 

I spent longer arguing with that than I probably should have.  Still don't know why it wouldn't work.  By all rights it should have.

 

Knowing that the thing would boot from the optical drive though, I figured I could just throw the Mint installer on a DVD.  Only reason I didn't do that initially was that I didn't want to spend half an hour trying to work out where the blank DVDs were.

 

However this didn't work.  It threw up a somewhat cryptic menu asking me to "select the boot CD type" - but apparently giving me no way to select anything.

 

A bit of research revealed what was going on.  The issue is that due to the age of the machine, the implementation of the EFI boot system is a very basic 32-bit implementation.  As such it doesn't quite know what to do with the DVD I am trying to boot from, and throws that menu up.  ...However (you'll like this) that menu pops up BEFORE the keyboard has been enabled, so I wouldn't be able to select an option even if I knew what I was doing.  

 

So what you need to do is modify the bootloader on the DVD (well, modify it in the ISO before burning it to disk).  That's the sort of thing I used to do back in my days of faffing around with the Amiga - but is a bit beyond my pay grade these days!

 

However I was very happy to find that someone has already done the hard work for me, and a whole load of ISO images worth the necessary boot loader modifications done - they're over here.  Worth bookmarking for those of you who enjoy messing around with computers in ways other than how the designers may have planned.

 

Writing the modified Mint 19 installer to DVD immediately resulted in the installer starting up as I hoped.  Only took me half the afternoon to get there.

 

Glad to report that once we got there the install proceeded by the book and we were up and running in about twenty minutes.

 

IMG_20190413_160350.jpg

 

I've decided to manually copy stuff over from the backup as I'm treating this as a good opportunity to clean up my Home directory, there must be configuration files in there from three or four OS generations ago.

 

Got most stuff set up now and it's copying a couple of terabytes of videos, music and photos back over from the backup drive.  Figured it can be left to do that overnight.  

 

I did spend a bit of time on car stuff too this afternoon.  Main plan was to pull the CVT pulleys off the Invacar.  Yeah...turns out the bolts are highly disinterested in moving (yes I have flattened out the lock washers), and I decided to stop before I wound up breaking something.

 

IMG_20190413_173311.jpg

 

I have left the bolts soaking in Plusgas overnight, will have another shot tomorrow.  This is definitely one of the times I wish I had an impact driver as I'm sure that would shock them free in no time.  

 

...May be an excuse to visit Toolstation tomorrow. 

 

The CVT setup definitely hasn't been happy, the fact that the entire area around it  is covered in finely atomised black rubber powder from the belt, which I would not expect after only fifty miles.


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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1358 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 05:57 AM

yeah to be pedantic, its technically an issue with the machines BIOS emulation rather then with the EFI itself  :mrgreen:

 

but its why when I was running linux on it, I went through the trouble of setting up a native EFI install

 

(that and it booted up much quicker because I didn't have to wait for the BIOS emulation to load)

 

the same issue exists when booting windows 7+ 64bit as well just FYI

 

I see you have 3 screens hooked up, did you replace the 7300 GT with the GeForce GT 710 or have you added that in addition to the 7300 GT? :)

 

(had any chance to try out the machines performance? :) )

 

 

 

while your rummaging around with the pulleys will you be having a look at the gearbox?

 

seeing as how when you got it, it was covered in oil and crap, i wonder if its worth taking the cover off and making sure there is some oil inside it still!

 

(plus it lets us see inside :) )



#1359 ONLINE   jonathan_dyane

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 08:03 AM

I always particularly enjoy seeing your Lada; have you considered a roffle?

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#1360 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:16 AM

To be honest I'm happy to have it running properly now, a slightly extended boot time is something I can live with. While I'm aware that the current arrangement is a bit of a cludge, it does work. Trying to get things to natively start via EFI is a challenge for another day, ideally with someone who has a better understanding of everything involved in the room to keep me right when I inevitably mess something up.

Have just stuck the 710 in there for now, I know the correct driver's for that can be installed automatically so went with what I know would work with the minimum of hassle. Especially given how much of the afternoon I had already thrown at the task which I be foolishly guessed would be an hour or so of work.

The gearbox oil level was checked quite a while ago and was topped up as necessary. The oil leak appears to have been mainly due to the bolts holding the top cover plate on being loose. Since they were tightened up there has been no obvious leakage. I'll need to give it a scrub down before a longer run to double check that's the case, but it's definitely not leaking badly now.

The Lada will probably appear a bit more as we get into the show season and I ramp up efforts to sell it again now it's out of winter hibernation. Sadly a raffle would be a non starter I think as to even come close to covering the most basic costs it owes me would result in tickets being prohibitively expensive. It's a nice idea, but just never going to happen. Nobody's going to enter at £40+ a shot.
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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1361 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:55 PM

Today's achievement: Figuring out that I really need an impact driver to get the pulley bolts out. Applying any additional static force is just going to seriously risk shearing the head off the bolt, and that's a world of pain I would rather avoid.

I decided to call it quits when I was applying enough torque to lift the car onto two wheels with the breaker bar...
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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1362 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:02 PM

I decided to call it quits when I was applying enough torque to lift the car onto two wheels with the breaker bar...


Sounds like you need an Impact Wrench, not an Impact Driver. A driver won't give you any where near enough force to shift it if you can't shift it with a breaker bar.
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#1363 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:16 PM

My bad on the exact terminology - You're absolutely correct.  Urgh...Fixing that does make the search results rather more expensive though...I could really do with not spending another £150 on tools...it's been an expensive month already...and I've not bought the exhaust for the van yet, that's going to be another £150 odd...

 

I really miss having access to the one at the garage.  It never ceased to astonish me what it could shift with what actually felt like a relatively modest amount of torque - the shock aspect really does make a massive difference. 


Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1364 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:20 PM

 when I was applying enough torque to lift the car onto two wheels with the breaker bar...

 

please tell me someone grabbed a photo of that at least?  :mrgreen:

 

(look on the bright side, at least you have not put the car into an underivable state, and you can still tootle around while you wait for new tools to arrive :) )



#1365 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:39 PM

please tell me someone grabbed a photo of that at least?  :mrgreen:

 

(look on the bright side, at least you have not put the car into an underivable state, and you can still tootle around while you wait for new tools to arrive :) )

 

Sadly I was on my own and given I was virtually hovering in the air on the end of a six foot breaker bar at the time there was no way I was able to snap anything.  Definitely a hazard unique to working on such lightweight vehicles!

 

I can't say I'm hugely surprised at this being difficult though.  One of the downsides of the state that KP's body was in was that due to the rear wheel tubs being completely absent, it meant that the CVT assembly has spent the last couple of decades essentially open to the elements - which is also probably whey the secondary pulley is in such a horrible state.

 

I don't think I'll be driving her until I've got the pulleys off.  It's quite clear that the rough surface on the secondary pulley is doing horrible things to the belt.  For all it *looks* fine - the thick coating of everything in the vicinity in fine powdered rubber tells me that it's being shredded.

 

Being totally fair this is one of those situations where I'm bound to wind up buying the tool in question at some point anyway (the wheel nuts on the van are apparently tightened up to about a million lb/ft too based on my previous attempt to get either of the front wheels off)...the timing is just annoying.  Seems that this is just determined to be an expensive month.  Tax is up on the Activa too...so that's another £200 odd! 

 

I seriously need to get myself at least *one* cheap hobby...


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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1366 OFFLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 06:06 PM

With the drive pulley secured, I'd try a large 17mm spanner and a hammer for a bit of manual impact wrench effect. Seemed to work on both the pulleys on TWC, and on the spare transmission from TPA (that had been partially open to the elements at times). Should shock any rust free. Driven pulley is trickier, just because it tends to move more. I've not found a way to entirely hold that one.


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#1367 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:51 PM

With the drive pulley secured, I'd try a large 17mm spanner and a hammer for a bit of manual impact wrench effect. Seemed to work on both the pulleys on TWC, and on the spare transmission from TPA (that had been partially open to the elements at times). Should shock any rust free. Driven pulley is trickier, just because it tends to move more. I've not found a way to entirely hold that one.


Yep, that's pretty much what I tried before getting out the progressively larger breaker bars!

I'm reluctant to get heat involved given there are rubber components in the pulley governor assembly - and that it's an a disconcertingly enclosed space to be using fire... especially in a car which is by all accounts rather flammable.

It's one of those jobs that I'm sure would be a lot easier with the drive assembly out of the car...but I'm not going down that road unless it's a last resort!

...Though I do regret not sorting the belt cage fasteners while the gearbox was out of the car as not being able to get that off is quite significantly annoying just now.
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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1368 OFFLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:20 PM

Ah, yes. That is a problem. Even with happy bolts, that cage is a pain in the arse. Though I guess it stops a flying belt being an even bigger pain in the arse...


1972 Invacar Model 70, 1984 Reliant Fox

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#1369 OFFLINE   mat_the_cat

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:03 PM

I decided to call it quits when I was applying enough torque to lift the car onto two wheels with the breaker bar...

 

I remember a few years back trying to undo the hub nut (ha!) on the Focus I had at the time. Breaker bar and scaffold pole, no joy. Breaker bar rested on the ground and car driven forwards - car just lifted the wheel as the bar dug in. I then remembered I had a 4:1 torque multiplier, so rested one end of that on the ground, and applied effort to the input lever. Nope, just raised the car up again.

 

Off to the friendly garage, who brought out their 3/4" drive air impact gun "If this doesn't shift it, nothing will!" Nope. By this point I was getting rather concerned, but they brought out a 1" drive bar, and a scaffold pole the length of the car. Two of us bouncing on that had it loosen with an almighty crack!



#1370 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 01:18 AM

I've been there with a Saab 900 hub nut. Wound up removing the entire sodding lower wishbone and hub.

All I wanted to do was change a sodding wheel bearing.

Having a look at Amazon there seem to be a decent number or cheaper (£50 ish) mains powered impact wrenches... everything on Toolstation/Screwfix websites seems to be cordless and >£100... I've zero requirement for cordless operation, so is one of these a viable option? Or is it likely to be made of cheese and fall to bits the moment I attempt to use it?

Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1371 ONLINE   plasticvandan

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:39 AM

Far too much fear over using heat on a grp car,a normal butane blowtorch,concentrated on the bolt you want to undo,will work wonders.ive used said torch on countless Reliants with no problems,even my mates calor bottle flame thrower on the cylinder head was fine.grp will burn but won't ignite.just use your noggin. There should be no reason why with some heat and some plus gas that bolt won't come undone with normal tools.

#1372 OFFLINE   Scruffy Bodger

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 10:54 AM

I've not tried it yet but there seem to be multiple reports of acetone and ATF being excellent at penetrating stubborn parts, cheap enough to have a try at as nail varnish remover is cheap and readily available.

 

I'd definitely go for a mains impact wrench too, one of the 50 quid ones should be man enough on any bolt on an Invacar surely?


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#1373 OFFLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:17 PM

Problem with penetrating oil is you can't really get it where the threads are.


1972 Invacar Model 70, 1984 Reliant Fox

1986 Citroen 2CV6, 1994 Mazda 323F*cked

1990 Rover 820 1999 Daewoo Matiz

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#1374 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:09 PM

Nothing to report today as I've been slightly sidetracked dealing with a somewhat poorly pet rat.

 

If you ever wondered what a slightly stoned one-eyed rat looks like, here you go.

 

IMG_20190417_191642.jpg

 

He's just sleeping off the tail end of anaesthetic having had his teeth trimmed. There are some deeper issues there, but his teeth not wearing normally was the thing needing the most urgent attention.

 

While I was out at the vet this arrived back at home.

 

IMG_20190417_163908.jpg

 

It is reassuringly heavy, and with a rated torque figure of 350NM it should hopefully be sufficient to get the pulley bolts out of the Invacar.  I think if that doesn't do the job, next step will be to pull the engine and gearbox then just take the gearbox to my usual garage to be sorted.

 

As it was a nice day it seemed a good opportunity to get the Lada out for a decent run.

 

IMG_20190417_160917.jpg

 

IMG_20190417_160935.jpg

 

Would have been rude not to get it out for a good run really.


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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1375 OFFLINE   500tops

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:13 PM

Awww, get well soon Mr. Rat...
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#1376 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:17 PM

cute little thing :)

 

happy to see the Lada is out n about once more :) I wonder how it would look with an oversized rear plate on the back, Rover 75 style...

 

(although it looks like the head light closes to the camera is about to fall out!)



#1377 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:23 PM

The headlights always look odd because the earlier cars didn't have the trim piece around them and it's ridiculously flimsy so never sits right. The for on the wing tops thankfully hasn't got into the inner wings or the headlight brackets etc. I did have it all out when I did the injection work and that does look a bit odd...so I'll double check it's not falling out! The panel fit on these cars was on par with that on an Invacar from new too...so being a bit off square doesn't always mean anything...

I have seen quite a few cars with the larger rear plates on, seemed to be a fifty/fifty random chance as to whether the dealership it was sold at had that type. These are the original dealer plates (rear one is anyway, not sure about the front from memory) though, so it was originally sold that way.
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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1378 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 09:17 PM

Aww that rattus is cute. My sister has had a succession of rats. Problem is that they just live such a short life. :(

Are those sockets supplied made from Chromium Vanadium? A proper impact wrench will smash them in no time.
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#1379 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 09:46 PM

Aww that rattus is cute. My sister has had a succession of rats. Problem is that they just live a short life. :(

Are those sockets supplied made from Chromium Vanadium? A proper impact wrench will smash them in no time.

Can't remember exactly what it said on the box, but it wasn't just chrome vanadium... I'll be using the proper impact sockets anyway, didn't know those were coming in the box anyway until they dropped out of the box.

The brevity of their existence is definitely the biggest downside to rat ownership. I really never believed that they could have such distinct personalities until I moved into the house with them. Think these will probably be our last for a while - for exactly the reason that the fact that it feels like you're barely used to them and they're gone.

Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.


#1380 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

Zelandeth

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:36 PM

Balls.

One thing I didn't spot initially was that due to the location of the pulleys that I can't get at them with the impact wrench. They're too low.

Current plan? Jack under the gearbox, undo the rear engine mounts and see if lifting it a couple of inches will grant me enough access. I doubt the extension bar and universal joint I have for the sockets would take kindly to being used with tools like this.

The sockets which came with this are hardened steel apparently according to the text on the outer box.

 

Oh, and the eBay seller I've been waiting for feedback from for over a week has just confirmed to me that they in fact do not have an exhaust for the van in stock.  That's three now.

 

I really don't want to know how much one will cost from Merc directly...If paying that sort of money I'd rather just get one in stainless...but the reason I was getting a stock one was in the interests of doing things quickly...Yeah, that's not quite working out that way.  Think I'll be having a chat with our Mercedes dealer on Tuesday.  Of course this has come up right before a four day weekend hasn't it.  Grrr...

 

Getting a stainless system made up is slightly complicated as well by the van being...well...a van.  The first two places I spoke to locally couldn't offer me a system for it as it was too big or too heavy for their lifts. 


Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 AC Model 70.





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