Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 19/04 - HVAC Preemptive Investigation...

[Andyrew]

I should have a couple of low pressure electric pumps for carbs somewhere if you wanted to borrow one. Only over in hockliffe.

[Zelandeth]

I should have a couple of low pressure electric pumps for carbs somewhere if you wanted to borrow one. Only over in hockliffe.

Might well take you up on that, could be really useful to help eliminate the existing pump as a possible culprit.

 

Meant to ask earlier, anyone got any wheel trims to suit 10" wheels? I've got a fair few floating around but I think they're all for 12" wheels which is obviously unhelpful.

[Andyrew]

Sure thing dude. Just drop a message if you want to borrow one and I'll dig one out.

[Zelandeth]

PM Sent, cheers!

[dollywobbler]

I've got a pair of 10" chrome hubcaps. Clearly they're no use to me. Maybe part of the planned meet-up is trim swapsies?

[Zelandeth]

I've got a pair of 10" chrome hubcaps. Clearly they're no use to me. Maybe part of the planned meet-up is trim swapsies?

You're going to laugh...A pair of 12" wheel trims is the main thing in the box currently en route to you (and a battery clamp).

[dollywobbler]

Ha! Oh well. Thanks. I shall have to try and return the favour. If I can remember where the 10" trims are...

[Zelandeth]

Right, have spent enough lately, time for a nice quiet, cheap weekend.

 

 

Balls!

 

£83 later and we were back in business.

 

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to do much with the cars this weekend.  This evening when I had a couple of hours has been it for the weekend.

 

So, what did I get up to?  Step one was to go over the fuel system with a microscope to look for any dodgy joins.  Nothing obvious, but I've remade a couple just in case.  I'll have a look tomorrow to see if it has made any difference.

 

Given I know there is too much free play in the brakes, I made a point of adjusting the front again.  Loads of play taken up, I'll redo the rears too once I've got the car backed out of the garage so hopefully can start from a blank slate there again.  Definitely seems a little better though.

 

Final task was to actually get my meter out and see if I could get the new fuel gauge working.

 

Our survey says...

 

 

Rocking the car from side to side makes it move slightly, so guessing that we do have an actual reading.  Previous attempts had just made the gauge peg itself at either end stop...so I'm taking it showing full pretty much perfectly in line with the full mark on the gauge as an indication I've got it wired up right this time.  Obviously I'll have to wait until I've used some more fuel to see if it tracks accurately.

 

The lighting on this gauge is vastly better than on the old one...so we have a vastly improved dash at night shot...

 

 

Did grab a couple of very quick videos showing the operation of the centrifugal clutch, and to show how much improved the cold start performance is these days.  I'll see about throwing those at YouTube for those interested in a bit.

[LightBulbFun]

very cool didn't know that type of gauge has a green backlight, it looks Awesome! nice splash of colour at night too

 

love how on the speedo its 70-80Mph gets lit up the most, as if thats some sort of target your supposed to hit 

[Zelandeth]

very cool didn't know that type of gauge has a green backlight, it looks Awesome! nice splash of colour at night too

 

love how on the speedo its 70-80Mph gets lit up the most, as if thats some sort of target your supposed to hit

The lighting on the speedo is incredibly crude. It's literally just a lampholder clipped to the outside of the instrument case that lets a bit of light onto the face via a blue tinted bit of plastic. 99% of the light just winds up in the footwell. I guess lighting it wasn't a major design goal in its original application (this speedometer is normally seen on motorbikes). It actually does a better job of diffusing the light than the camera makes it look like though, and it's quite legible in the dark, even if the slightly "warm white that's being slightly nudged towards cool white" colour isn't that pleasant...given the lighting on the fuel gauge is a pale, quite warm looking, green I may well change the (cracked) bit of blue plastic in the speedo surround and see if I can match the colours between the two instruments. Oh...and enclose the lamp holder so it doesn't light up the footwell as that bugs me.

 

I really do think about this sort of stuff too much...

 

Edit: here you go.  Light spread is better visible there - but look at all the spill into the footwell!

 

 

[Zelandeth]

Thanks to DW, TP has been fitted with some nice additional cosmetic finishing touches.

 

 

 

Somewhat hilarious to be fitting stuff like that given the shape of the bodywork cosmetics in general.

 

This afternoon I was able to run her up to temperature again and can confirmed that we still have bubbles in the fuel line...time to try an alternative pump. If we still have issues then I guess it will point to a pinhole somewhere in my new fuel pipe. That would be a highly annoying outcome of it was the case...

[dollywobbler]

Very envious of your speedo illumination. Mine remains pretty much invisible.

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks to DW, TP has been fitted with some nice additional cosmetic finishing touches.

 

IMG_20190218_163442.jpg

 

IMG_20190218_163433.jpg

 

Somewhat hilarious to be fitting stuff like that given the shape of the bodywork cosmetics in general.

 

This afternoon I was able to run her up to temoertempe again and can confirmed that we still have bubbles in the fuel line...time to try an alternative pump.  If we still have issues then I guess it will point to a pinhole somewhere in my new fuel pipe.  That would be a highly annoying outcome of it was the case...

 

Like for hubcaps

 

I like it when you have vehicles like that, everything is scruffy looking but all the "shiny" trim bits are in place

[egg]

Yep, love the hubcaps too.

[Zelandeth]

Very envious of your speedo illumination. Mine remains pretty much invisible.

 

Have you made sure the lamp is pushed all the way forward in the clip?  It's quite critical to get the filament lined up with the slot in the side of the speedometer or none of the light will end up where it's needed.

 

Have just picked this up to do some experimentation with tomorrow.

 

 

If it does solve the issue I'm still undecided whether I will go with an electric pump or rebuild the original.  I really do like the idea of keeping all the fuel lines well clear of bits of car that get hot...

[LightBulbFun]

Have you made sure the lamp is pushed all the way forward in the clip?  It's quite critical to get the filament lined up with the slot in the side of the speedometer or none of the light will end up where it's needed.

 

Have just picked this up to do some experimentation with tomorrow.

 

IMG_20190218_215739.jpg

 

If it does solve the issue I'm still undecided whether I will go with an electric pump or rebuild the original.  I really do like the idea of keeping all the fuel lines well clear of bits of car that get hot...

 

if ya do end up fitting an electric fuel pump, may I recommend fitting some sort of inertia switch or something to the front of TP? especially given the fuel tank location

[Zelandeth]

if ya do end up fitting an electric fuel pump, may I recommend fitting some sort of inertia switch or something to the front of TP? especially given the fuel tank location

That's an obvious one really, no question an inertia switch would be fitted.

 

...and some easily visible indication that it has been triggered would have to be fitted. Still remember a friend having their car off the road for a few days when their switch was falsely triggered (by a stray wheel balance weight coming adrift and smacking into the inner wheel arch where the switch was), ending up with them standing at the side of the road in the middle of February...

 

I still quite like the setup the Lada has, meaning that there is no need for the switch. The fuel pump in there is only ever energised if the ignition is on and there are pulses being recorded by the crankshaft position sensor. So if the engine stops, the fuel pump stops. The crankshaft position sensor location is such that it's probably the first thing to get smashed in a frontal impact beyond a parking ding too.

 

Edit: forgot to include this earlier. Here's how TP starts now even after sitting for a few days. Garage was somewhere between 10-15C, cold enough I was in my jacket anyway. Choke was briefly set to about 1/2 before being backed off. It would need to stay at about 1/4 for a minute or two if I were to actually load the engine up - but when I'm just idling it I try to keep choke on as briefly as possible to save causing fouled plugs, bore wash etc...

 

[YouTube]

[/YouTube]

 

The previously huge blue cloud of smoke is noticeable by its absence too. Have to assume this is just the results of the engine actually having done a bit of work again after so many years of slumber.

[Zelandeth]

Having the electric fuel pump in hand meant that I could start doing a bit of investigative work on TP's fuel system.  Step one though was to test the pump and to run a bit of clean fuel through it first, as I've no idea when it was last used nor what it last pumped.  Not too much gunk came out really which was good to see.

 

Attaching it to the car however did pose a bit of a problem.  Connecting it directly in place of the original fuel pump was going to be a bit tricky on account of the hose connections on the electric pump being 5/16" rather than 3/16" like on the original.  However the tank outlet is 5/16" and I have a reducer up front changing it down within a couple of inches of the tank.  So it makes sense to just plumb it in up front - which is where I've generally seen electric pumps installed anyway.  Can plumb the existing tank outlet to the pump, then the outlet onto the existing reducer.  Annoyingly I don't have quite enough 5/16" hose to sensibly position the pump, so I'll need to go and get some tomorrow.  I basically want to hang it from the top tank retaining strap in the front compartment - currently it's cable-tied to the nearest chassis rail.

 

In the engine bay this left me with a slight quandry as well - as I needed to join the two bits of hose that were the pump was bypassed - however I didn't have a joiner specifically that size anywh...Wait...I think I know exactly what will do nicely.

 

Going back about a year, one of the things I remembered happening when I was starting to contemplate the fuel injection conversion on the Lada was that the fuel return hose connection barb pulled out of the carb body when I attempted to disconnect the hose from it.  The bit of my brain centred around improvisation figured that this would probably make a perfectly good hose joiner if I could find it.  Thankfully this didn't prove difficult as I'd stuffed it back into the carb before dumping that in the box of "leftovers" from the injection conversion.

 

 

This indeed did the job nicely, and allowed me to tether everything to one of the support struts in the engine bay.

 

 

Obviously I'll do some proper hose trimming and rerouting if I stick with an electric pump long-term, but this will do just fine for testing purposes.

 

Initially running things up hasn't shown any evidence of air being drawn into the system with the engine having run for 30 minutes or so.  I have seen the occasional bubble *leaving* the fuel filter, but nothing on the inlet - so am guessing this is just a certain amount of fuel evaporation taking place within the filter housing itself. 

 

I'll get some more hose tomorrow so I can secure the pump in a slightly less dodgy way, then will look to do a bit of a road test to see if there's any noticeable difference in behaviour.

 

Also finally got around to throwing a bit of paint at the windscreen scuttle on the van, which I'd been meaning to do forever.

 

 

It's not a permenant solution nor is it pretty, but the idea is that it will keep the critical combination of water and air from being able to get to the metal to continue to rust things  once it's painted.  Plus it looks a bit less dodgy at least!

[Zelandeth]

So in preparation for some fuel system plumbing alterations to make the pump positioning a little more sensible I've drained the tank on the Invacar.

 

A usually awkward and time consuming task was turned into a two minute task courtesy of my horribly abused old Saab fuel injection pump.  

 

 

The rate this thing shifts fuel at is downright unnerving...it had the tank emptied within two or three minutes.

 

Sadly I had to down tools at this point before I got any further as folks arrived home earlier than usual meaning I needed to get dinner in the over half an hour before I went into the garage.

 

Didn't spill a drop, yet have still wound up stinking of petrol.  On that note, is it just me or does it stink in a far more pervasive and unpleasant way than it used to?

[Zelandeth]

While it was a bit of a faff, I actually feel pretty good about today's efforts seeing the end result.  Basically I wound up generally tidying up the area under the front service hatch.

 

 

The cardboard under the fuel tank strap is a temporary measure by the way, I've got some closed cell foam on the way which will be going in there - once it turns up.  Yodel have managed to lose track of it somewhere...so goodness only knows when/if it will ever turn up.

 

The fuel pump is fastened in the old ignition coil bracket from the Lada.  Once I packed around the pump with some rubber to keep it quiet it was a perfect fit.

 

Getting the new fuel pipe onto the fuel tank stub was an absolute pain and must have taken me nearly an hour of swearing.  Seriously, if it comes off again the tank is coming out...

 

Speaking of the tank...something which has become apparent today is that the fuel gauge sender is in the tank upside down.  D'oh!  Oh well, easy enough to sort next time the tank is nearly empty.  On the plus side, the gauge works fine...it's just reversed.

 

Having spent several hours standing on my head of course I wanted to see if it had been worthwhile.  So that meant going out for a spin round the block a few times.  Still need to adjust the brakes further as there is still way too much free play, but the front is definitely doing more now and she is stopping in an absolutely straight line now.

 

While I did not have a huge amount of time, I was able to buzz around for twenty minutes or so.  That was well within the point that she had been starting to spit and carry on before, and was still running fine today.  Given I was trying to cause high fuel demand, it was very much a "crack the throttle open up to 30, brake for junction, off again etc..." This has done good things for the drive system it seems, as the gearbox feels very much smoother now, and between 0-30 it definitely feels like it's doing what I'd expect a CVT to.  

 

Given I was being a bit more proactive in the "I want to make the car misbehave" department today it has really shown two things. First, she really is bloody quick off the mark...not even passable, properly nippy.  Secondly...you really can throw her around the corners... I'm really staggered by the body control.  It's hard to describe in words, but it really feels nimble.  Reckon that a lot of their reputation must be down to lack of straight line stability due to lack of ballast rather than being actually tippy.

 

After a couple of tens of minutes running usually the fuel filter would be visibly empty (I know that doesn't actually mean much), with bubbles feeding through.

 

Not this time...

 

 

Plenty of fuel visible and absolutely no bubbles...that being the important bit.  I'll try to get out for a bit longer tomorrow afternoon.

 

Will make sure the camera comes out as well, and hopefully will rope my other half into getting a few photos or videos from outside - as I imagine given the duct tape exoskeleton she looks rather comical bouncing down the road at the moment...

[mrbenn]

Good work! Fuel tank and pump arrangement looks very neat.

[dollywobbler]

Good stuff. I've only recently started to really chuck mine around. I'm still pretty wary but I reckon a lot of stability issues would be from people hammering it on full lock. As you say, they accelerate with surprising alacrity, so easy to cause a wobble without care.

[LightBulbFun]

Very cool stuff! glad to see she is running well once more and the drive line is running nicely after sitting dormant for 20 years

 

 

the bit about the Model 70 handling makes me grin no end   as Iv told many people they are way better "then they look|, only to be met with laughter and scepticism...

 

looking forward to the videos

[MorrisItalSLX]

RE: Fuel Sender, could it be simply solved by reversing the polarity of the sender or gauge? I won’t pretend that I know how it works, but it would save allot of faffing around with the tank if it could be solved in this manner.

 

I look forward to seeing some external video, I imagine it is quite a sight to see your Invacar zipping down the road at a rate of knots!

[Zelandeth]

RE: Fuel Sender, could it be simply solved by reversing the polarity of the sender or gauge? I won’t pretend that I know how it works, but it would save allot of faffing around with the tank if it could be solved in this manner.

 

I look forward to seeing some external video, I imagine it is quite a sight to see your Invacar zipping down the road at a rate of knots!

I don't *think* so, and the light obviously won't work (not wired up yet, but will be in future). To be fair, it's not a major hassle to turn the sender around. If I'd spotted this before refilling the tank today I would have done it then. Just six bolts which I know we're out a couple of weeks ago which are all easily accessible.

 

If the sender was buried under a boot floor or something it would be different obviously and I would be more inclined to leave it be.

 

Will probably wait for the tank level to drop itself this time though...draining it twice in three days seems a bit excessive!

[Zelandeth]

Very cool stuff! glad to see she is running well once more and the drive line is running nicely after sitting dormant for 20 years

 

 

the bit about the Model 70 handling makes me grin no end as Iv told many people they are way better "then they look|, only to be met with laughter and scepticism...

 

looking forward to the videos

I *thought* they would be pretty chuckable purely based on theory. Flat twin engine slung really low down, robust chassis with no appreciable weight above butt height, engine at the stable end, and a reasonably wide track for the overall width of the vehicle. That photo you found with the body mostly hacked off one showed it pretty well where all the weight is.

 

I'd really like a shot of a Robin or Rialto again now to compare notes as it's well over ten years since I was last in one and I can't tell how much time is skewing my memories of their stability. I also know the one I drove wasn't exactly a decent sample of the breed either. Anyone around here want to loan me one? It'll be returned with a full fuel tank and valeted...

 

Obviously "chuckable" is a word that still requires a semblance of common sense... I'm not about to throw it into a roundabout at 50mph, but at the same time, I'd not do that with the Lada or the van either! If you're really daft, yes I'm sure you could tip one over. Probably worst case is braking sharply while cornering - so training your brain on appropriate evasive action is worthwhile. Bit like remembering never to come off the power mid corner on a damp road in a Skoda Estelle. Once was enough to demonstrate why... especially with the terrible tyres that Rapid had on. Can't remember what make they were, but they may as well have been coated with Teflon if the road was anything other than bone dry.

 

Probably the biggest vice handling wise in the Invacar is simply how sharp the steering is, especially if you're not used to driving it.

[LightBulbFun]

Yeah  

 

I imagine the sharp steering would make it good in situations requiring lots of sudden manoeuvring

 

and on that note, the whole handling setup etc, is one of the reasons I really want to see DW take TWC (or you/someone else with a Model 70) to an autotest circuit like he did with the 2CV, I imagine a Model 70 would be really quite decent at one

 

 

imagine the looks on everyones faces as he rolls up, and then the looks once more as he runs around the corse in record* time 

[mrbenn]

So if we ever hear reports of an Invacar driving around on two wheels in London we know who it'll be!

[Zelandeth]

End of play today we had this on the odometer...

 

 

That's another five miles covered for those playing along at home. Would probably have been more actually as mechanically things were going just fine - however the indicator stalk decided to part company with the handlebars.

 

One of the screws landed in my lap, the other however ended up on the floor and was long gone by the time I got home, probably escaping via the gaping chasm at the bottom of the doors. So had to go digging in the drawer of random fasteners to find a replacement and put it back together...

 

 

...This time sticking a load of threadlock on the screws. If it comes off again I'm resorting to the epoxy.

 

I'm kind of amused that the first thing to actually fall off is something that had nothing to do with my improvisation, but is a Lucas parts bin item fastened to the car as the designer intended!

 

I'd hoped to give the brake adjustment another poke today again but ran out of time. Things are definitely settling in in that department now as she rolls so much easier than this time last week, so expecting to need to fiddle around with that for a while until the shoes are all fully bedded in.

 

I think all being well tomorrow might be the first time we actually go *to* somewhere all being well. Probably Halfords...about 3/4 of a mile away. Does involve a bit of 60mph road though, let's see if 50mph happens again.

 

I've got some more foamed PVC board on the way (once Yodel find it or actually admit they've lost it so a replacement order can be shipped) which will help me rebuild the rear valance in a slightly less dodgy looking way.

 

Here's a bit of a general overview of how she's looking now.

 

 

 

 

Amusingly, I got back from the last run out just as our local police foot patrol wandered round the corner. Gave me a good opportunity to deal with my first "What even *is* it?" question, and see if they had any issue with the current state. They both said they couldn't see anything which would have had them calling in the traffic guys. Lights all working, nothing hanging off, no pointy bits of bodywork and the brand new tyres are obviously a sign it's being looked after, and "There's a lot more dodgy handiwork in the Halfords car park!" That makes me feel a bit more comfortable doing my road testing.

 

Here's a quick onboard video from the last test run today. 

 

[YouTube]

[/YouTube]

 

If you're wondering why towards the end I went round a roundabout a bunch of times before doubling back on myself, it was because I found myself sandwiched between two mounted police, and didn't fancy trying to pass horses on a narrow residential street in an extremely noisy tiny car - especially one which has been known to backfire on occasion on light throttle openings...

 

Hoping to get a proper video that I don't feel I need to leave as unlisted - i.e. not ending at my own front door (not that I care too much given I live in a house that you can Google anyway) with a proper walkround intro and such done shortly...not going to be an editing masterpiece, but I'd really like to try to actually make a "proper" video on the car at least.

 

I've been wanting to *do* something with my YouTube channel for years anyway!

 

[LightBulbFun]

very cool stuff! defiantly sounds like she is running well  (and looking nice and spiffy, hubcaps n all)

 

The Lucas part failing made me mirth especially after all the jokes you hear about them from various people and forums

 

also the same to not even the police knowing what it was, glad to see they are fine with everything however  (will be interesting to see how she does come MOT time)

 

you need to get the front badge back on so everyone will know* what it is 

 

(BTW as for the stalk falling off, it did make me think i wonder if its worth killing the rust on the handle bars and painting them over if nothing else, so fresh rust cant slowly prise the indicator stalk apart if that makes sense?)

 

very much looking forward to the "proper" video