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Which engine?


stephen01

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​I've had the anchoring to do a modern* engine swap into my Herald for years, for no reason other than it would be different. I have always fancied the idea of a classic electric but Jaguar have done quite possibly the best conversion ever on the E-Type. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/jaguars-electric-e-type-zero-is-an-engineering-marvel/ I feel even if I sold my house I would be short of the costs for a project like this. While I don't get the hype over the E-Type this looks absolutely stunning piece of work. 

 

I 100% believe that electric is a very big part of the future but I would like something slightly less expensive and more home made. I'm going to leave the electric side of things alone for now, maybe when you can get a Leaf for 2k it will be a project that becomes more common place.  I was thinking more along the lines of a Herald diesel conversion, the Peugeot 1.5 diesel would be my choice of engines to swap, I have been mighty impressed with some 1.0 turbo engines namely the ford ecobost, this however would probably be far out of my reach not only on budget but the actual electronic side of things. This brings me back to my original thought about the TUD5 engine as found in the 106. This engine is very similar in terms of power producing 56BHP compared to the 51BHP put out by a 12/50 herald they both push around approx. 850kg of metal so performance wise would be on a par with the original car. leaving me the option to keep everything else standard. I'm not looking for blistering performance just something a bit stupid and usable. 

 

My musings over the diesel swap was always the fact I could run on veg so when diesel / petrol becomes 5 quid a litre I'd still be able to run around on the cheap (assuming oil aint OMG mega expensive) I know this is, hopefully, many years away but this thought has been in my mind for the last 5 years. I nearly got the donor 106 a couple of years ago but pulled out as I wasn't brave enough and space was a premium. 

 

I know the 1.5 has been utilised a few times over the years in a few different classic and they are known to be used in the Suzuki Jimmy for the 4x4 off road scene. I was in contact with someone on there who has done several swap using the 1.5 and there are compatible gearbox for the RWD conversion. 

 

Stupid idea or possibly has some merit. 

 

Have a picture of my herald for your own pleasure. 

 

post-4612-0-89488200-1504875176_thumb.jpg

 

 

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I like to see engines that weren't meant to be in engine bays inserted in there, I think your logic is spot on, go for it, what about a 1.9 to dizzler from a 306 they are nice and tuneable aren't they, or a 1.7td Isuzu from an astra or cav, tuneable and a few gearbox possibilities for rwd as well, that way you get a little speed on top

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There's a nice 60BHP Rover engine  the 1S60 Gas Turbine

wpa6ab7e3f_06.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rover 1S60 Specification

Output...........................................….………………………………………......................60 Bhp
RPM.......................................….………………………………………..............................46,000
Compressor.................................….………………….........................Centrifugal Impeller
Combustion Chamber.......................….……...................Reverse Flow Single Can with Simplex Burner Nozzle
Turbine................................................….…………………………………................Axial Flow
Layout...............................................….…….................Single Spool with Reduction Gear
Ignition..................................................….………................High Energy Ignitor Plug with Air/Fuel Emulsion Pump
Starting................................................….……………...............Electric, Hand Crank or Cartridge
Lubrication..............................................….………….............Wet Sump with Pressure Pump, Air or Water Cooled Oil Cooler
Fuel System............................................….…..............Piston Pump with Centrifugal

 

 

 

The Rover 1S60 series gas turbine engine is a small single shaft unit developing up to 90 HP. The single shaft designation describes how mechanical power is obtained from the engine. In the case of a single shaft layout, the same shaft that drives the compressor also drives a mechanical load.

The 1S60 engine is principally an industrial engine for ground use however a number of auxiliary power units (APU) or airborne auxiliary power plants AAPPs were developed from it.

The 1S60 series engine started life as the gas generator component of a twin shaft design (power take off is supplied from a mechanically free second shaft carrying a power turbine disc). The twin shaft design was developed for use in a car, the output shaft being coupled to the road wheels and torque was able to be supplied over a wide operating range starting from stationary.

The 1S60 designation depicts the specification of “One Shaft” and “Sixty Horsepower”. A later variant was able to supply of to 90HP.

The industrial units may be considered as one of the most successful small British gas turbine engines ever produced. Applications included University Instructional sets with dynamometers, aircraft ground power generator units, ship borne fire fighting pumps and auxiliary generators on hovercraft. Power take off shaft speeds of 3000, 3600 and 8000 were available as different options. Also hand-crank or electric start versions were available. Compressor bleed air was also an option.

The airborne units were fitted to the Vulcan B2 Bomber as the AAPP MK 10301 and also as the AAPP MK10201 Argosy transport turbo-prop. In the case of the Vulcan the AAPP was used to supply 400Hz electrical power and bleed air for air conditioning services. In the Argosy the AAPP supplied hydraulic power to enable doors and ramps to be operated when the main engines are stationary.

A number of the single shaft units were experimentally fitted to light aircraft as a propulsion engine. Difficulties might have been experienced and the installation necessitated a variable pitch propeller as the engine could not be started under load.

 

 

 

 

 

They do fit in smoll spaces and this, below not-a-rover turbine  runs diesel.

 

 

 

turbine_home.jpg

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I reckon the 1.5d would be hellish noisy/ rough in that car without tuned engine mounts etc . What about the 1.1/1.4 8v petrol from the saxo / 106 ?

Nice and light , loads available and pretty tough ( bit HGF prone but just do it before you fit it etc ) They are bloody good on fuel too . 

The 1.5d would be quite a bit heavier and would mess up the balance of the car I think .

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yeah, there's been a couple of MX5 conversions. it looks factory TBF I remember reading it on club triumph, must be 5 or 6 years ago, does he still have it? 

 

Yes, we've still got it.  Have had niggling intermittent ignition issues on and off for ages (the only relatively modern electronics I had to succumb to) and not really had the time to sort it out so its not getting used quite so much at the moment. Happy to answer any queries.

 

Img_6283.jpg

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I reckon the 1.5d would be hellish noisy/ rough in that car without tuned engine mounts etc . What about the 1.1/1.4 8v petrol from the saxo / 106 ?

Nice and light , loads available and pretty tough ( bit HGF prone but just do it before you fit it etc ) They are bloody good on fuel too . 

The 1.5d would be quite a bit heavier and would mess up the balance of the car I think .

 

Noise is a very good consideration, I've been watching videos on youtube of the 106 diesel and they do make a racket! the herald as my old neighbour puts it sounds like a sewing machine gently ticking away. 

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Yes, we've still got it.  Have had niggling intermittent ignition issues on and off for ages (the only relatively modern electronics I had to succumb to) and not really had the time to sort it out so its not getting used quite so much at the moment. Happy to answer any queries.

 

Img_6283.jpg

 

So glad to hear you still have this, it does look like it belongs there. did you do a full build thread on this? I'd love to read it ( or re read it!)

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I was going to say MX5 mk1/mk2 engines. Lovely lumps that are on the right side of modern. The early ones especially as they are full multiport injection, but with only a few simple sensors. Plus the ECUs run pretty much standalone. Gearboxes are lovely units too. Power output is pretty decent for the age too.

 

Of course being Mazda, the whole drivetrain package is pretty much bulletproof - they're even non-interference engines. If it ever did go wrong, loads of parts still available for cheap and will be for a long time.

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Not to say it would happen for yourself, but I see it all too often with others online, if you don't go too adventurous there is more of a chance to see it to completion. Complex installations end up getting stuck at sections, interest wanes and ends up as a car in bits.

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My first thought was MX5 underpinnings as well. Useful power, cheap as chips and reliable.

 

The K series comes with its own issues but still a sound choice, but have you considered something mad like a VTEC YO!1!1!1!1!1!1!1!???

 

Shame the Fiat Twinair engined 500's aren't in shite territory. I could see that tiny little 2 cylinder motor being a popular choice as it will fit in practically anything. Plenty of power and very low emissions whilst sounding like an angry Vespa. In years to come I would love to fit one in a Midget or something like that

post-3538-0-90784000-1504891326_thumb.jpg

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I've put a few to diesels where they didn't meant to be and though the extra mpg was very welcome the extra weight, noise, and vibration wasn't. Much happier was the use of a moderner petrol to replace something nasty. My '56 Rover is now better in every way with its 90's Landrover 2.5. It's a lot lighter which helps the steering, is more flexible than the '6' and quieter than the TDI I had in my previous P4. It's cheaper to run on LPG and lastly won't destroy the gearbox, a problem you'll almost certainly run into with the Herald. I believe the diesel Marina with its Triumph box made do with the feeble 45 bhp 1.5 b series for this reason even though there was a larger version available.

My Morris 10 was re-'powered' with a smaller 'a' series engine and is a big improvement. I'm sure it would have been better still with a small Suzuki lump but that would have looked odd under a 30's bonnet. It would have been nice to use with a rascally 5 speeder though.

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Not to say it would happen for yourself, but I see it all too often with others online, if you don't go too adventurous there is more of a chance to see it to completion. Complex installations end up getting stuck at sections, interest wanes and ends up as a car in bits.

I agree with this, make it as straightforward and simple as possible to increase the chance of success and reduce stress.

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