Renault 6 rescue (Aug 2020 - rehomed)

[crapcarcollector]

I’m no Renner 6 engine expert by any means, but can you not use crowfoot spanner’s on the end of an extension bar?

 

You’ve probably already thought of that so I’ll go back to sleeping....

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Parky]

Cant remember if I have posted this before or whether this has been mentioned but this guy did a lot of work to a Four. Yes, it is not a Six but there might be some crossover ideas or motivational images for you to enjoy amongst this lot

 

https://www.renault4.co.uk/renault-4-restoration.htm

 

He managed to fit a Renault 5 Gordini engine!

[Eddie Honda]

Off the shelf, a 3/8" drive Koken 3400MZ series 14mm socket is 19mm diameter at the socket end, 17mm at the drive end and 21mm tall.

 

 

Only other thing I've seen browsing is their 3/8" impact socket 13145M-100-14

 

 

Both available in slightly larger 1/2" drive.

 

Other than that special tools Renault MOT10 or Facom T.26.

[Slowsilver]

 

Off the shelf, a 3/8" drive Koken 3400MZ series 14mm socket is 19mm diameter at the socket end, 17mm at the drive end and 21mm tall.

 

Googling Koken only appears to show Japanese sites apart from Amazon who list the 12mm version which is out of stock.

Is there anywhere in the UK (or somewhere English speaking) I can order one of these 14mm sockets from?

The clearance between the rocker arms is only about 16mm but I might be able to grind off 0.5mm all round.

Can't find any references to Renault special tool MOT10 on t'internet so assume it's NLA.

 

[Andyrew]

LANDY PROP SHAFT BOLT SOCKET, 9/16TH A SMIDGE OVER 14MM, 150 long with 20mm o.d

 

https://www.britpart.com/all-parts/da1065/

[panhard65]

I might have the tool somewhere I will have a look on Monday if I remember. I had a load of old special tools from the Renault dealers I worked at back in the late 80's. I am sure there was a socket that looks like that in one of the boxes, but having moved workshops I may have trouble finding it.

[nigel bickle]

Might this help?

 

A long term Renault restorer, he's be en around old Renaults for very many years.

 

[vulgalour]

Could you make use of a tan front door card?  Found one in the garage yesterday that I forgot I even had, having assumed it went with my old one.  Happy to post it free of charge, don't want anything for it.  If it's no use, I'll just put it in the bin.

[panhard65]

Might this help?

 

A long term Renault restorer, he's be en around old Renaults for very many years.

 

image.png

Brian Whiteside helped me with a dating certificate for my 7. He is a really lovely bloke and certainly knows his Renaults. He used to run a dealership up until the 90's and has quite a collection of old Renaults. I thought I had had most of the numbers but he beats me and has a few Sinpar's.

[Slowsilver]

Could you make use of a tan front door card?  Found one in the garage yesterday that I forgot I even had, having assumed it went with my old one.  Happy to post it free of charge, don't want anything for it.  If it's no use, I'll just put it in the bin.

 

Thanks very much for the offer.

Bob has tan door cards which all seem to be in reasonable condition, but it would be good to have as a spare.

Seems a shame to bin it if it could be needed in the future.

Posting it could be expensive and it may get damaged as it is basically just a flat piece of cardboard.

Are you coming to the FoD/FotU weekend on the 14/15 July?

If not is there anyone near you who is coming and could bring it with them?

[vulgalour]

Afraid I'm not going to any shows this year, saving all my pennies for the house move, and I'm about as far away from you as I can be.  Happy to work with folks to arrange a Shitely from the North East to you if anyone wants.

[lesapandre]

I saw a beige 6 out in South London this evening. Wow that was a surprise - what a rare sight.

[somewhatfoolish]

Have you sorted out a special tool yet? I ask as I've acquired a surplus 14mm socket and could bodge it onto an extension with the electric pritstick and post it to you in the interests of this thread continuing to offer forum winnage.. 

[Slowsilver]

Thank you for your kind offer but, more importantly, for resurrecting this thread and reminding me how remiss I have been with the Bob project. I was astounded to see that the last update was in May, over three months ago.

The enthusiasm for this has been at rock bottom for a while now and I have been trying to ignore it, despite tripping over it every time I go into the garage.

Unfortunately a standard 14mm 3/8" or 1/2" drive socket will not fit as the clearance above the bolts between the rockers is only about 11mm, but as a result of you pricking my conscience, I remembered that I had ordered a 1/4" drive 14mm socket, which is waisted down just above the hex recess.

This afternoon I dug it out and managed to persuade it onto one of the bolts. First I tried a short 1/4" drive extension:

 

 

Not the desired outcome!

Draper extension just snapped off the 1/4" square end.

 

So I tried again:

 

 

This time: 1/4" drive waisted socket into 1/4" to 3/8" adaptor into 3/8" to 1/2" adaptor into 1/2" drive resistance-is-useless breaker bar.

Success!

Thought something was going to break but eventually, with a very loud crack, the bolt came undone.

On to the next one. This time the socket would not fit in under the rocker arms. I think this was because of their position. Over the first bolt one valve was open and one closed, hence the rocker arms were at different heights, but over the second bolt both valves were closed, hence the rocker arms were both at the same height.

Judicious use of a grinding stone in a Dremel soon saw a couple of millimetres ground off the inside of the head casting in the appropriate place (visible top right of photo below) and CRACK! the second bolt was also undone.

Job done, you would think, but not entirely.

The bolts could now only be undone a couple of turns with the socket before it jammed on the underside of the rocker arms and could not be removed. So more fiddling required with long-nosed pliers and fingers on the (now loose) bolts. But eventually all the head bolts are out. YAY!

 

 

Close up of one of the head bolt holes showing the ample* space* for access:

 

 

So now to remove the cylinder head:

 

Autobollox manual:

 

"Remove the cylinder head bolts and the head complete with rocker gear, valves and springs may be lifted away."

 

Yeah, right, like that is going to happen.

 

"Should the head remain stuck to the block, rotate the engine by means of the starting handle with the plugs still in position, the compression should be sufficient to release the head."

 

Er, no. There is a starting handle provided and a hole in the front crossmember for it to fit through, but the front bumper is in the way and there is nowhere for the end of the starting handle to go because the engine and gearbox is in backwards so it would have to go into the end of the gearbox. Nice of Renault to provide a starting handle, even if it is useless. Anyway, if the engine would turn over I wouldn't be removing the cylinder head would I?

 

"If this should not be the case, tap the head gently with a block of wood, never use a sharp instrument as a lever in the joint as this will ruin the mating surfaces (alloy) and cause a leak."

 

First sensible piece of advice, but no way is tapping gently with a piece of wood going to free this seized-up pile of crap.

 

HBOL:

 

"Do not turn the engine over to remove the head because you will disturb the removable cylinder liners."

 

Hang on a minute, didn't the Autobollox manual just tell me to do exactly this?

 

So, enough pratting about for today. Sit back and think about sensible ways to actually get the head off. First thoughts are to fit a bar across the rocker cover bolts, attach an engine hoist, lift the entire front of the car off the ground and bash the head with a copper hammer until it surrenders.

 

Anyone out there have any more sensible ideas?

[SiC]

Would removing the engine entirely help with this fight more?

[somewhatfoolish]

Hanging it off the head might bear fruit especially with extra encouragement; put some of the headbolts back in loosely to avoid excitement* and gently* apply an air hammer onto the top of the headbolts.

[dollywobbler]

Are you in any of the classic Renault clubs? Certainly in Reliant circles, there's a special tool that can be borrowed to get reluctant heads off. As displayed by the Fox's engine, you can unleash all manner of violence against one of those and the head will not come off. With the right tool, nae probs.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Dunno what's been going on inside that cylinder head over the years, but that looks pretty fucked. Rather you than me!

[jonathan_dyane]

At the risk of condescension you have removed the head bolt with the yellow cross (below) haven't you?

 

Looking forward to see what horrors lie beneath!

[Slowsilver]

Don't be silly.

What kind of idiot would spend hours removing all the tricky bolts and then miss that blatantly obvious one?

Doh! That would be me I suppose.

 

Idiot quotient += 1

 

At least I didn't spend 26¹/₂ minutes bashing seven bells out of it with a copper hammer to no avail.

Oh wait... Yes I did.

 

Well spotted !

 

In my defence all fastenings on French stuff are supposed to be hidden, inaccessible and only removable with a special tool made from Unobtanium, and so far they all have been. Putting a normal hex head bolt in a position where it can not only be seen but also undone with a normal spanner just confused me. Must have been a design fault.

 

Still haven't removed it yet (need to wait for the stupidity phase to pass) but stay tuned for the next thrilling episode entitled "Undo The Bolt And Try Again Dickhead".

[SiC]

Idiot quotient += 1

 

Liked for notation, except:

Syntax error. Expected `;` before `quotient`.

[Fumbler]

Syntax error. Expected `;` before `quotient`.

Traceback error in Line 1: "quotient" is not defined.

[Kringle]

What is happening here.

[320touring]

What is happening here.

A glitch in the code

[Noel Tidybeard]

What is happening here.

 

computer geeks in full anorak

[Talbot]

A glitch in the code

10 PRINT "Undo ALL the bolts before trying to remove the cylinder head. ";

20 GOTO 10

 

 

I can program, me.

 

One of the things that I have seen done in the past to remove stubborn cylinder heads is to use long steel rods inserted into the head-bolt-holes in the head, but only as far as the gasket line, and then used as a lever to "rock" the head free.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

10 PRINT "Undo ALL the bolts before trying to remove the cylinder head. ";

20 GOTO 10....

RUN...

 

...oh wait, hang on....

[Dick Longbridge]

Whilst I really, really, really want this little car to live, I can’t help but feel that you’re pissing into the wind with that engine and box. To be fair, I’d be fairly confident the box is already rogered after your attempted bump starting with a seized engine, and as for the engine itself...

I’m not trying to be twattish about it - I just think it seems a bit like intentionally smashing your thumb with a hammer multiple times, even though the first injury should have been a big clue as to change tactics.

[RayMK]

Whilst I really, really, really want this little car to live, I can’t help but feel that you’re pissing into the wind with that engine and box. To be fair, I’d be fairly confident the box is already rogered after your attempted bump starting with a seized engine, and as for the engine itself...

I’m not trying to be twattish about it - I just think it seems a bit like intentionally smashing your thumb with a hammer multiple times, even though the first injury should have been a big clue as to change tactics.

Yes, but I would probably have done the same.  Trying to dismantle the rusty lump will give useful experience prior to obtaining a good* replacement engine which will probably require some dismantling, inspection and rebuilding before reliable use.  This will of course depend on Mr Slowsilvers' morale remaining intact if the car continues to be so ungrateful. 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Whilst I really, really, really want this little car to live, I can’t help but feel that you’re pissing into the wind with that engine and box. To be fair, I’d be fairly confident the box is already rogered after your attempted bump starting with a seized engine, and as for the engine itself....

Well, I suppose the whole car's fucked so he's got to start somewhere. Otherwise why bother? If he manages to get it back on the road in the years to come, not only will it be a job well done but he can also name the car Don Quixote.