Ford Scrappage Scheme

[Kiltox]

Mmmm

Maybe buy an old xud that won't pass another test, keep it for the required time then chop that in, then pass the gooner on again

Previous scheme needed the cars to have a valid ticket I think

[RichardK]

I walked past the Vauxhall stand in Liverpool One the other day , all the nice shiny cars out with prices on the sides , £229 a month !!!  , F ! that , thats my shite heap paid for in 2 months , another month for the insurance , and another month for the years road tax ....  in profit now if all goes well for the next 8 months , which in a way saves up for the next car !!!!!  , and and the advantages with this scrapheap idea ??????  

 

 

I believe when the subject comes around to this, "You do you, and that's okay" applies...

 

Your £600 car might be awesome. It might also explode. it probably has wobbly steering and unless you're using disingenuous maths or got lucky - worn tyres that will cost a bit to repair. It might have broken bits. You might be okay with all these things.

 

Some people aren't. Some people just like to pay X a month for a car and not have to worry about it.

 

The advantage to the scrappage scheme is that they might have 10 year old Renault that no-one wants, and not understand haggling, or just be sad that the thing they bought isn't worth much, and might be able to get credit, and feel they got something back for the car that Gumtree people have said is worth 50p and an old XBox, and since they have lives other than obsessing about shite old cars, they're happy.

 

Really, it doesn't matter Cars cost £x per year. Some people are skilled, some are lucky, some aren't. Leave 'em to it.

 

Since April I've been driving an old Volvo. I've been fine. This week I get a new leased car. This will also be fine. I don't pretend I own it, I just like that I'm going to pay a fixed amount and have a car that will churn out 20,000 miles a year without me having to worry about a single extra bit on it, then I hand it back. If I get a full-time job I won't have time to piss about chasing around the country for the best autoshite, or time to maintain it (though I am keeping my SLK and Twingo anyway).

 

We can't judge other people's situations, only try to empathise. Regardless of the environmental sanity, regardless of snobbery, or opinions on debt and ownership (I do feel a lot of the time there's a "You've got a £15,000 car and didn't pay for it so you don't deserve it" with some of these arguments, when in fact, it should be "You chose to spend your motoring budget divided down this way and got that, I hope it works out for you". Wait until you see all the £44K /base price/ Velars that are £350/month on lease...) - new cars in the UK are stupidly cheap and for those who need to USE the car, rather than making it their hobby, this is a good thing in the face of overpriced public transport etc.

 

Just wish we had more parking spaces. And better automotive mechanics and parts supply to make maintaining older cars less stressful and expensive. Chicken/Egg though.

[Junkman]

It's one thing if a car company decides to do this.

It's another, if the government hands over my tax money to people wealthy enough to be in the market for a new car.

[RichardK]

Previous scheme needed the cars to have a valid ticket I think

 

And that's the fucking stupid part of it.

 

Last scheme came around when I was thinking about environmental impact a lot. My proposal was essentially this:

 

Scrappage does not work as a mid-summer "Argh crap sales" boost, but is a permanent part of the UK landscape to maintain a responsible approach to car disposal and use.

 

Scrappage applies to cars 12 years old and over, up to 21 years old (25 years old maybe - but protecting classics). After 12 years of use the embodied energy in making a new car has been compensated for by maximising the useful life of the vehicle.

 

Scrappage comes as a voucher that deducts money from an increased VAT on cars. New car VAT goes to 40% (remember, businesses and fleets can reclaim, so this is aimed at private buyers primarily). This means a £10000 cost, £12000 OTR Focus is now £14000, so you drop a trim level or options, whatever, it's not exactly harming the poorest in society.

 

The voucher is issued on failure of the MoT for structural, emissions or safety reasons. Consumables like tyres, suspension or brake pads do not count, body rot, failed airbags/seatbelts or emissions do.

 

12 years old = £500

13 years old = £1000

14 years old = £1500

15 years old = £2000

16 years old up to 21 years old = £2500.

 

After that point the cars qualify for historic tax (hence the pondering about age) and that's your reward for keeping them going.

 

It can be taken to any car dealer, used on any car, at any time, and is issued when the MoT garage fails and disposes of your car.

 

Personally I'd like to see CoD cars broken responsibly for spares, but that market is dead.

[cort16]

2 questions

 

Does it apply again mustangs and do they take shit fiat pandas?

[SiC]

2 questions

 

Does it apply again mustangs and do they take shit fiat pandas?

If it does, the 2018 Mustang look like it's going to be a corker. More power, better looks (in person), 10spd autos and nicer interiors.

[RichardK]

10 speed? At what point are they going to take the throttle away and just fit 21-speed gearboxes?

[SiC]

10 speed? At what point are they going to take the throttle away and just fit 21-speed gearboxes?

Its the last hurrah of transmissions with many gears. Once we go electric, there often is no need to have multiple gears. Often more inefficient overall too.

 

What 10spd autos offer is the ability for the gearbox to choose the right gear for the situation. Almost like CVT but using actual gears and without the disadvantages of CVT. When accelerating, it won't be using all the gears, only those that it needs to use - given the current terrain and climate its driving in.

 

I wonder when or if we'll start seeing more than 6 speeds in manual cars. Aston Martin already are doing cars with 7 speed manuals - dog leg in first too.

[sierraman]

I'll look forward to the Chevrolet Matiz with a 16 speed Rangechange then.

[RichardK]

That 10 speed box looks pretty damn impressive, and like it'll be reliable /if/ given regular fluid changes.

So expect Americans to be using them in 400,000 miles, and the British complaining that they fail at 60K.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

2 questions

Does it apply again mustangs and do they take shit fiat pandas?

No! First thing I checked, nothing bigger than a Focus .

[SiC]

That 10 speed box looks pretty damn impressive, and like it'll be reliable /if/ given regular fluid changes.

 

So expect Americans to be using them in 400,000 miles, and the British complaining that they fail at 60K.

It's going to have to be reliable. It was developed together by Ford and GM to be used in all their future products. If it is unreliable, both companies are going to suffer and neither can really afford to with the competition hotting up nowadays.

[danthecapriman]

I was listening to the radio this morning and there was an advert on for BMW, they're doing a deal for Euro 4 or older diesels to be traded in against a new BMW at special rate for the 'old polluting wreck'.

 

All manufacturers are using it to cash in, if you thick enough to fall for it then frankly you deserve all the debt too!

[UltraWomble]

#Gimmick

#PRStunt

#SalesDrive

 

That is all

[Pillock]

Just shows they can knock thousands off the price of a new car without flinching.

 

They have no concern in removing your old car from the road. They care not about air quality. This is not them being lovely, eco friendly people.

 

They want to sell more cars.

[catsinthewelder]

Nah fuck the cockney twats, if they are that bothered they can pedestrianise the whole city for all I care.

[AnthonyG]

With the amount of free advertising from the BBC Ford have received today the schemes probably already paid for itself!

 

Ford confirmed the cars will be scrapped, was this the same with the Vauxhall schemes?

 

I guess it removes manufacturers from the requirement to build 'longevity' into a car, if the buying public expect to be paid to junk it after 7 years.

[matty879]

Will these part exchanged motors really get scrapped? There's no government incentive for it, surely they're just part exes that will end up at auction as normal?

i know a salvage dealer who got immensley wealthy out of the original scrappage scheme,export and re register,loads of dosh

[bigstraight6]

Maybe the recent bombshell announcement about the petrol and diesel vehicles ban has really spooked the marketplace, I know it's quite a few years off but now manufacturers will be busting a gut to get electric models developed and on the market as quickly as they can and any petrol or diesel powered vehicles punters are buying brand new now could be worth the square root of fuck all very quickly.....

[AnthonyG]

I do note that Ford have got precisely fook-all in the way of electric vehicles, or even hybrids, in their range at the moment.

 

I reckon they are just pissed off they replaced the Fiesta with a new model and no-ones noticed!

[Ghosty]

There's a hybrid Mondeo but it's about £28k.

[egg]

I'm just off to swap my Fusion for £15k of debt and a brown b-Max, lovely stuff. Good old Henry

 

August really is the silly season...

[Hendry]

Pretty much all of the manufacturers / their dealers offer this on a rolling basis, it's nothing different.

 

A Citroen dealer was offering £5k "scrappage" on a C4 Cactus the other month. At full list price.

 

Totally different to the actual government scheme years ago.

 

Its sort of the same in that Ford are saying the cars that come in will definitely be scrapped and not just punted up the auctions like a swappage scheme. Just no government incentive. 

 

cant see theres many decent old shitters that would get turned in now so carry on i say  - doesnt make sense with all the pollution and wasting a working car but whatever

 

You say that but seemingly it covers cars upto 31/12/2009 so there will be some decent semi-modern cheap cars getting fragged. 

 

Will these part exchanged motors really get scrapped? There's no government incentive for it, surely they're just part exes that will end up at auction as normal?

 

Yes definitely to be scrapped according to a Ford spokesman.

 

The one I read claims they are offering 7grand off a Transit van. id imagine you could go in and get 7grand knocked off the list on a Transit van without a trade in, but I bet a lot of people with rickety old Transits are takin in by the lure of "7 grand for my van that would normally be worth a grand" when all thats effectively happened is some mug punters have given Ford their old car for FREE to scrap, because theyd get that discount on list anyway.

 

What im more intrigued by is, these discounts they are offering if you "scrappage" your old car, with most stuff being bought on PCP, how will an overall discount of say £4500 on the list price of a Focus impact what people pay a month in PCP. Knocking £5k off the list price of a new car is surely only any benefit if you would normally be paying the full price of the car either on HP or as a cash buyer, as you only ever pay the depreciation on a PCP, will it have any effect or will they stuff the people who havent considered this. e.g. new Focus, say £20k list price, worth £8K after 3 years, so you pay the £12k of depreciation over that 3 year term, will that still be the case, or will it now be say £15k (after the scrappage allowance) and you pay the depreciation between that and the £8k future value, meaning the PCP payments in theory should be almost halved? 

[Dick Longbridge]

Yay. Crappage. Yay.

[RichardK]

Okay, so this thread, like all the others, is playing into the "people who PCP are thick/indebted" etc.

 

STOP THINKING OF CARS AS ASSETS. Yes, they were once status symbols. A century ago to half a century ago. They are now depreciating, technologically progressive liabilities that are there for a purpose unless they are things like high end AMG/Jaguar (high end, mind), etc.

 

A modern car is not a debt in the sense of "OMG you stretched yourself to own a £20K asset rather than having an old car you CAN afford". Unless they can't afford the monthly payments, they CAN afford it. Think in terms of ZipCar, car club, train passes, taxis, ubers, hiring a vehicle when you need it.

 

A PCP/lease is a way of securing a zipcar type object that no-one else gets mucky and is always there when you need it. It's a season ticket to the roads.

 

You know who is making a poor choice? The people who have £10K in savings and dump it into a 5 year old car with almost 100,000 on the clock because they'd rather be seen in a Mercedes than a Dacia, losing all their equity and flexibility in one go. In my opinion. Every, EVERY scenario is different, but FFS.

Most cars are not desirable status symbols anymore and the range of monthly costs can range from as little as £99/month for rare deals on tiny things to £350/month getting you a Velar on lease. Londoners pay £4K tops for rail passes for a year. Hiring a nice car for a weekend costs £80-300 - for one weekend. Plus deposit/liabilities. Membership of a citycar programme - if you live somewhere that's relevant - costs £6-15/month plus either an hourly charge or £50-74/day for a small car that is often full of crap.

 

Obviously the Autoshite way is best.

 

No, seriously, IF you can do it Bangernomics will save you shitloads, but if the argument is for financial reasons, it has to be the sub-£1K cars and you have to have some technical knowledge and some time. Not necessarily a lot, but there are good reasons for bangernomics proponents also being car enthusiasts. If the argument is not financial, then your kink is not their kink. And that's okay.

 

You have to be prepared for FTP, for no/missing aircon, for partners or friends or colleagues judging/being reluctant to go in your car. At a recent car thing the loos were 1/2 mile away or so, and the team wanted to go... "It's okay, we can use the Volvo" "NOT AS A TOILET! I'LL DRIVE YOU THERE /IN/ IT!"

 

The list price should be thought of like the reinstatement value on your home insurance. It's a technicality. Yes, some weirdos might want to buy a brand new car for cash, and some people might be fortunate enough to have £15K in savings to spend on a 30% off list, pre-reg low mileage car with extended warranty, which works out better value in depreciation than monthly lease costs and is doing sod all because of low interest rates... but again, every scenario is different.

[Hendry]

Yay. Crappage. Yay.

 

Mk3 Cavalier in a decent condition like that one looks will probably fetch more than £2k these days,

 

Also love how the Mini dealer, which actually looks like my most local one, has an old Mini with the "we paid 2 grand" stickers on it but its another cubed car thats there, no way no chance was that old Mini a genuine trade in scrappage car, because if it was the dealer wouldve sold it for more than that, paid the 2k into it themselves from the proceeds of the sale and pocketed the rest.

 

RichardK - i totally see where you are coming from, I just own my own car personally because I like the idea of it being mine outright rather than hired, like a rental car, I dont mind paying monthly for broadband, my phone contract or a Sky telly package, but only because I have to, there is no way of owning outright, it doesnt work for everyone and Im not knocking anyone who wants to PCP a car, as I say I just prefer to own my own car outright, its mine no matter what happens. What I do disagree with about these schemes is 1. the wasteful destruction of perfectly usable cars for people who maybe need transport who dont have £250 spare a month for a new one, weve just become such a wasteful society. 2. Telling us selling new cars and scrapping all the old ones is cleaner and better for the environment, when the pollution from actually manufacturing the components of these new cars and then the pollution from the actual manufacturing of the cars out of all the various components is far greater than the pollution from these already built cars throughout their entire lifetime.

 

In my mind, if they want to, genuinely, make the planet cleaner and healthier - which they dont, for the government and car manufacturers its all about money and profit and revenue - theyd be encouraging us to squeeze as much life out of cars as possible before buying another brand new one. So to make out they are doing this for our benefit, to make our planet cleaner and healthier, and they have our best interests at heart, and dare I say it try and play the "we are doing you a favour" card, annoys the fuck out of me. Maybe if they were more honest, something governments are notorious for not being, we wouldnt be as up in arms about it. 

[omegod]

I'm calling into Liverpool Vaux tomorrow to have a sit down protest in the showroom, not a single Cavalier,Calibra, Senator nor even an Omega will be scrappaged , no , not on my fucking watch it won't !!!!!!! they can scrap all the Vectras they want though 

[sierraman]

I don't look at a car as an asset, I look what it's costing me. A new one for £200 a month is beyond my budget. One I can buy outright for a thousand quid isn't. I don't have monthly payments to worry about then.

 

I don't even think you need loads of time. I'm not laid on my back every weekend mending cars, it's as hard as you want to make it, it's difficult to judge on here because it's people's hobby.

 

In short do what you want, who gives a fuck what other people are doing.

[RichardK]

Absolutely no disagreement on the questionable environmental goals and destruction of usable cars with no regard to emissions, condition or ease of maintenance. But that's not an issue for the manufacturers, that's an issue for society to sort out.

 

I personally think new cars are far too cheap. Adjusted for inflation, relative to incomes and so forth, the technology we get now is insane. It really is disposable. A Saab 900 in the mid '80s was comparable in cost to a Bentley GT in 2007ish.

 

It's like TVs. Back in 1999 a good telly was a grand, and for that you got 36Kg of CRT, but that was okay because your CRT TV you were replacing was probably 15 years old anyway. Now you can get a 50" Smart TV that hangs on the wall, for £299. And people throw them away after 3 years (my TV is a 50" plasma that literally was going to go in the skip).

[RichardK]

In short do what you want, who gives a fuck what other people are doing.

 

 

Yep.