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For sells: Another DAF 66 Kombi!

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#121 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 03:45 PM

Nearly there now, with some pleasant tinnkering in the sunshine. My rebuild kit arrived so I set to rebuilding the vacuum valve- I couldn't believe how small the mushrooms are!

 

There's the devil. 

IMG_0911.jpg

 

IMG_0915.jpg

 

And dissembled.. Not much to it is there? 

IMG_0917.jpg

 

You can see the offending mushroom (good name for a band), and the solenoid it should be attached to. 

IMG_0917.jpg
 
Also, this valve is perhaps from a Volvo 340 as it has a diode which isn't needed on a 66. See-ya!
IMG_0918.jpg
 
Now, the strange this is, all is now working as it should, and a test drive reveals that there is a change up effect, however this isn't nearly as strong as when I bodged it to the low hold side. 
 
The reason seems to be that there is much less vacuum present on the change up side than there is on the change down. This is confirmed by sucking on the inlet pipe of the body without any thing else attached- the change down side is free, however the change up side feels restricted. Is this correct?
IMG_0917.jpg

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#122 OFFLINE   Sigmund Fraud

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 04:00 PM

Did you replace both mushrooms ?



#123 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 04:02 PM

Did you replace both mushrooms ?

Nah just the one for now. The problem that I mention is just whilst testing the inlet without any mushrooms or solenoids attached with my mouth on the inlet and my fingers on the pipes.

There’s clearly some sort of valve in that middle section going by the diagram.

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#124 OFFLINE   Eddie Honda

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 04:09 PM

A Volvo vac valve has 4 electrical terminals. An old DAF one 3.

Make sure you have an earth going to each side as each solenoid is independently earthed.

Doesn't matter if the diode is there or not on a DAF. Important for a later car with a tacho relay to avoid reverse emf spike.

I'll check the numbers when I get home.
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#125 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 04:36 PM

Aye it’s earthed both sides. I’ve connected up the solenoids independently and they both work as they should.

There’s a noticeable change up and down effect when driving, so all is well.

HOWEVER, that central bit of the valve I’d definitely restricted or something so that one side receives greater flow than the other, and that’s without anything connected. It seems it’s biased to shifting down.

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#126 OFFLINE   Eddie Honda

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 05:25 PM

They're preset on the bench.

A load of wax is blocking the adjustment screw. There's a spring behind the bulkhead side disc, but it's a PITA to remove.

#127 ONLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 05:31 PM

This is interesting stuff. The Invacar appears not to have any separate control of the pulleys, and I must admit that on steep hills, it could really do with a 'forced low.' I guess they weren't really designed for the mountains...


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#128 OFFLINE   purplebargeken

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:04 PM

Still witchcraft.


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#129 OFFLINE   Eddie Honda

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:41 PM



and I must admit that on steep hills, it could really do with a 'forced low.'

 

Don't you just wish you had one of these:

 

9701625634_3f5e558a73_z.jpg

low ratio switch.jpg by E Honda, on Flickr


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#130 ONLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:59 PM

I wonder how many DAFs over the years have failed the MOT on "non-working" hazard lights because of that switch?


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#131 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:15 PM

Facebook wisdom (the Daf variomatic group) suggests that the upshift is restricted:

F1_D7_CACD_DB11_4_A55_B860_972_F3_ED2_A4

I guess it makes sense- that side has the extra outlet to recirculate excess vacuum
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#132 OFFLINE   purplebargeken

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:21 PM

So it all works now then?


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#133 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 11:02 PM

So it all works now then?


Aye! You’re due a go!
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#134 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 01:20 PM

Interesting stuff here from the helpful chap who built his own Electric Daf 33- he suggests the upshift circuit is limited in both max pressure and flow rate- the latter is often disabled. At least I'm not going mad. 

 

Screen_Shot_2018_04_16_at_14_14_59.png


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#135 OFFLINE   purplebargeken

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:09 PM

Upshift vacmeter in the cabin eh? 

 

No wonder I was fucked, all I had were a couple of old Werthers from past Rover ownership.


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#136 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:50 PM

Upshift vacmeter in the cabin eh? 

 

No wonder I was fucked, all I had were a couple of old Werthers from past Rover ownership.

actual lols!

 

I thought I'd keep y'all posted with my learnings from other sources. This is from a convo with Volvo 300 Mac as suggested by Eddie Honda: 

 

The vacuum drawn in the primary pulley's outer chambers (assisting "change up") is indeed considerably less than the maximum depression obtained by the engine. 

As engine vacuum varies depending on road & engine speed, throttle position and brake activation if this were applied directly to the primary unit the result would be constantly changing vacuum assistance to the speed determined centrifugal gear changing. 
Hence the "overdrive" vacuum is regulated to 45kPa (negative). Engine vacuum can go as high 
as 70kPa (neg.) at idle but much higher under deceleration with a closed throttle.

A second potential problem with allowing unregulated vacuum to be drawn in the outer chambers could be a reluctance for the transmission to "change down" - remaining in "O/D" even at very low speed (try pulling away again in 4th or 5th gear in a manual box).

No physical damage would be caused to diaphragms by greater depression (in fact the "brake" side of the same diaphragms are subjected to this under normal operation.
Some small benefit can be gained by increasing the depression on the O/D side and in fact the vac valve on Volvo 340 models after 1979 were regulated to 50kKPa (negative).

If your "Change up" is not performing as you feel it should I would suggest (sorry if I'm telling you what you already know) checking for vac leaks (primary pulley cover pipe seals are a good place to start).

Several years ago I wrote a lengthy article on the CVT system covering theory as well as function. Aimed at the 300 owner it nevertheless included cutaway drawings of the 4way valve showing "what vacuum goes where" under various conditions and much of the general information is applicable to the Daf/Volvo 66.

If you think a copy would be of interest I would be happy to send you a copy.

Good luck - Mac.


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#137 OFFLINE   purplebargeken

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:20 PM

Mac is a very sound bloke. 


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#138 OFFLINE   Sam Glover

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:16 AM

 

Several years ago I wrote a lengthy article on the CVT system covering theory as well as function. Aimed at the 300 owner it nevertheless included cutaway drawings of the 4way valve showing "what vacuum goes where" under various conditions and much of the general information is applicable to the Daf/Volvo 66.

If you think a copy would be of interest I would be happy to send you a copy.

Good luck - Mac.

 

 

I'd be very interested to read Mac's lengthy article, if he obliges.

 

Sam



#139 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:10 AM

I'd be very interested to read Mac's lengthy article, if he obliges.

Sam


Aye he’s posting it to me as it’s “too big” to email. I’ll scan it and fire it up here.
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#140 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:21 PM

FTP!

It’s started and ran fine, then conked out 20 seconds later.

Fuel pump doesn’t seem to be pumping- I can draw little splashes of petrol through from the tank with a syringe so that seems all good, but the fuel lines after the pump are dry.

It hasn’t been that long since I last used it so it’s not as if it would have returned to the tank.

Defo fuel pump? Replace with electrical? They apparently aren’t serviceable on the 66.

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#141 ONLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:27 PM

I'd try more of a squirt in the carb and see if it starts drawing through. Modern fuels seem utter crap for doing this. We're having similar issues with 2CVs that never happened in the past.


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#142 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:33 PM

Hmm yeah but it’s not like it didn’t start- it started, ran for a while and then conked out.

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#143 OFFLINE   purplebargeken

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:41 PM

Deffo not run out? I have some brand new fuel lines in the garage somewhere I think.


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#144 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:47 PM

And relax.. another squirt in the carb and it died..

Another one and it ran and then pulled enough through to keep going.

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#145 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:49 PM

Fuel level low, & on a slope, or a pinhole in the line t'wixt pump & tank, perhaps?

Both would give those symptoms...
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#146 OFFLINE   pandamonium

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:53 PM

Bloody love this car. Just thought I would say. 


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#147 ONLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:53 PM

Hmm yeah but it’s not like it didn’t start- it started, ran for a while and then conked out.

 

It would have started on whatever was in the fuel bowl. May be that the non-return valves on the pump aren't very healthy. Some 2CVers have resorted to fitting primer bulbs in the fuel line!


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#148 OFFLINE   Eddie Honda

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:04 PM

May be that the non-return valves on the pump aren't very healthy.

^^^^ This.

Had it before with a V300. If it didn't get use for a couple of days it would go dry. Pump could draw eventually with a small inline filter. Couldn't draw with a large inline filter. Then it progressed to running shit at 50mph, then later in the same trip packed up. Robbed a pump from another car solved it.

On the 66 I binned it and fitted a blanking plate. Electric Facet cube got fitted at the rear.
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#149 OFFLINE   purplebargeken

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:33 PM

^^ That sounds like a plan. Every Daf I have ever had drained fuel back when not used. Every single one of them.

 

Fuel line is yours when you pop over to get the rocker cover gaskets.


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#150 OFFLINE   jackytwoshoes

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:27 PM

It's weird- when I first bought it from Ken it didn't want to draw in a similar fashion, but I've left it before for way longer periods and it's never done it again until today and it's only been 3 days since I last used it. 

 

Anyway, it's enough to convince me that I need an electric pump- I've always found that between that and electronic ignition you've got 75% of your engine problems sorted.  


On the 66 I binned it and fitted a blanking plate. Electric Facet cube got fitted at the rear.

 

Links to pump and blanking plate? I'm always cautious of too many PSI on a pump so I'm guessing something like this mounted low in the engine bay: https://www.fuelpump...nion-2019-p.asp

 

^^ That sounds like a plan. Every Daf I have ever had drained fuel back when not used. Every single one of them.

 

Fuel line is yours when you pop over to get the rocker cover gaskets.

 

Thanks man, I do need to grab that gasket from you as I'd like to do the tappets. Fuel line was already in the boot!


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