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Help - Land Rover Defender instant expert training required!!!!!


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41 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Roobarb

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:23 AM

On a bit of a whim, I'm off to see an old G reg Defender TDi this Sunday.

Other than knowing the SWB does ride as nice as the full 110 and they have 4 Wheels, I know NOTHING about them.

Anyone give me any tips please.

This is what I'm off to see:
https://minneapolis....6243202085.html

These go for even more stupid money than this one usually State Side, so this one is a good buy and is local.

Thanks :)

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#2 OFFLINE   PiperCub

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:54 AM

Never owned a LR of any description (no need) but always found the SWB's bounce a lot more than the LWB's when I've driven them. 

 

Below is a mix of my opinion and a mate's experience!

 

The main issue with these chaps is rust. Those panels that are alloy are less of an issue, it's the chassis and bulkhead that can rot to an olympic extent. While you can get the parts and repair them, this can be a never ending job on old Landies so check underneath carefully. As it's in Minnesota and that state gets it's share of shite weather and snow, rust through salting of the roads may be an issue (we in the UK share your pain on this!). 

 

Look for rust esp in the outriggers as well as the main chassis and look for any accident or off-road/farmers abuse damage too. Check the bulkhead (firewall) carefully too as repair is awkward and often requires much stripping down for access.

 

Mechanically pretty strong and easy to work on and you can get the bits reasonably priced (usually!). 

 

Not remotely as reliable as Jap stuff but probably easier &/or cheaper to fix.

 

There'll be someone with vastly more knowledge on LR than I along in a bit but the above is a start - in a nutshell: Check for rust!



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#3 ONLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:41 AM

Check it's not a ringer and the stamped in chassis number actually matches the paperwork and vin plate.

Look for rot everywhere not soaked in leaking oil.
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#4 OFFLINE   Roobarb

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:59 AM

Thanks :)
I'm amazed that anyone is up this late or early :D
The car has just been imported from the UK so I'm guessing it will be the usual amounts of British rust, but on the up side, that means the car has probably had a recent MOT so it should be 100 times better than anything around here!
It looks like the original plate was:
G463MAK
Where do I check for advisories etc?
Thanks again :D
Edit: found it :D
https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk

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#5 OFFLINE   cros

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:58 AM

My tip would be to stay away, this is not a Defender Tdi. If you must have a pre- Defender type turbo diesel due to that being the latest allowable be warned that these engines are vastly inferior to the direct injection Tdi in every respect, particularly reliability. I've owned a 90 from 1989 and the best I can say is that it functioned, albeit thirstily. The ride is fine, especially by my standards (which, it must be said, are not high). If it has its original LT77 gearbox, wear on the output shaft splines is common and not an easy fix. How to spot is well documented. Though I run a series 1, if I was on your side of the water I'd be looking at an International Scout, but then the grass is always greener!
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#6 OFFLINE   Roobarb

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:06 AM

I've seen a few places where people have mentioned that their car is a 200TDi and not to be confused with the earlier (inferior) ended model.
Thanks for the insight. I guess it probably just isn't to be.
The 200TDi s are out of my league, so I guess I'll just look for a different toy.
Thanks so much everyone.
The wonder of being a member of such a great forum with such a cross section of knowledge!

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#7 OFFLINE   PiperCub

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:05 AM

Bear in mind that the 200Tdi engines often get transplanted into earlier Landies so that might be something to look out for. As cros says, the earlier old-school diesel lumps (fitted to the 90/110's - pre-Defender's) aren't much cop. 


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#8 OFFLINE   garethj

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:31 AM

I think the other posts have filled you in - that's definitely not a Tdi engine but an earlier turbo diesel which is very low on power.  Rust on the bulkhead at the door hinges, rust around the little vents below the windscreen and rust on the chassis, particularly the rear crossmember which is what Land Rovers have instead of a rear bumper.  Even if the crossmember looks ok, check the supports behind that fix it to the chassis.


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#9 OFFLINE   cros

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:58 AM

Out of interest, how much would you expect to pay for a decent late 60s Scout or Bronco?
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#10 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:58 AM

Rust everywhere mentioned above & as said, it won't be a genuine Tdi at that age. The pre-Defender 90/110s had TDs that liked to crack pistons when worked hard. It might have a Tdi dropped in, but it depends how well it was done. A lot of them are Disco Tdis (as easier to source), you can tell by the turbo. Disco lumps have the turbo low down, Defenders have it by the cylinder head. Nowt wrong with the Disco lump, but it does need a custom downpipe to fit a 90/110 so that could be a pain to source if it needs replacing.


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#11 OFFLINE   Lacquer Peel

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:01 AM

They sorted the TD engine out later in its run, any that has survived this long must be okay.
Bonus = Bosch pump and veg compatible
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#12 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:09 AM

Tdi is veg compliant too. I used to run my 200Tdi (tweaked to 21psi boost etc) on 70-80% SVO all year.


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#13 OFFLINE   Wack

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:16 AM

Be very careful , a number of defenders have been crushed for not complying with the 25 year old rule , if too many parts have been changed they'll just turn up with a trailer and confiscate it.

I remember reading a few years back , they crushed a load as they came off the boat , they were proper taking the piss though , basically a new defender built around a 25 year old chassis plate
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#14 OFFLINE   Rusty_Rocket

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:40 AM

It looks correct for a 1990 vehicle to me, even down to the original 19J td engine. Regarding the 19J, it's a total boat anchor. It will have piston problems and will smoke like a train until it's warmed up. Sure, it'll keep going, but you'll be cursing it, mile after mile.

They simply aren't good engines and even late ones like this one still crack pistons, suffer massive blow-by and pump oil out of the breathers unless it's a decent, fresh rebuild. 


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#15 OFFLINE   Wack

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:03 AM

They are what they are, awful on the road, fantastic off it , I've had 3 over the years 2x 300tdi and a 90 the same year as that fitted with a 200tdi and a LT77

If you've never driven one they are an experience , like nothing else, designed 70 years ago and still drive like it, everywhere you stop people come and chat

The last generation with the 2.2 transit engine in are much better on the road but a defender you need a scanner to fix goes totally against the grain

If it's not a 500 mile round trip I'd go and have a look at it and drive it if only so you can try one out it's not as if the 200tdi or 300tdi is a rocket ship in comparison

My first one was a one owner ex farm 110 high capacity , it was a learning curve as one owner isn't all good when it's a farmer ,60,000 miles on a farm is like 360,000 on the road.

Everything was knackered , when you let the clutch up it was like when the cogs turn on a bank safe and eventually the door opens, after a lot of clunking and banging the slack went and it moved , steering was an experience , 1/2 a turn of the ship sized wheel before the wheels moved , it was 150 miles of terrifying motorway driving to get it home, crap wipers, candles for headlights and trucks overtaking me with air pressure bouncing me about with no steering to correct it , engine was good though and a new steering box and back axle sorted most of it out
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#16 OFFLINE   Lord Sward

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:16 AM

I took one in part exchange once.  My dad was straight around wanting it from me.  I warned him that by me letting him drive it, it should shatter his illusions. I was right, he hatted the thing. They are awful.  And I consider myself a Land Rover man (excludes the new Shogun I've just bought).


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#17 OFFLINE   Roobarb

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:50 PM

Thanks again for all the comments. I wondered why it was such good 'value'. :D
Think I'll be passing on this one.
Shame as I really would have liked something like this over here.
It seems the 200TDi version go for anything like double the money ($30k) and that won't be happening!

Cross I'll check out Scouts and Broncos and see what they sell for. Might be a nice alternative.

I just fancy something other than a Jeep. My brother in law has an early Toyota Landcruiser but never uses it. Maybe that might come up at some point...

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#18 OFFLINE   Roobarb

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:01 PM

This is what is used through most of the US to buy and sell stuff, when it's not FaceBook.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org

The above links to my local area, but you can change it for pretty much everywhere in the US.
There are Scouts and Broncos on there from the 60s from as little as $1900 to as much as $30,000 right now.
As well as millions of other things to interest and while away the hours checking out!

Welcome to the rabbit hole!
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#19 OFFLINE   Wack

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:15 PM

Buy a scout for $1900 and turn it into one worth $30,000 by spending $35,000 on it , that's what most of the US shows seem to do
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#20 OFFLINE   garethj

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:16 PM

What's the rules on importing a Defender to the US?  Has it got to be a certain age or something?


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#21 OFFLINE   Roobarb

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:38 PM

Yes, there is a 25yr rule.

Also as noted above, modifications have to be limited to same type engine swaps, no replacement galvanized chassis etc.

Once it's landed and registered, I guess if you do want to swap these things over, at least in Minnesota, you would be best off having your car 'officially' inspected before and after, so it doesn't get impounded.

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#22 OFFLINE   Clanger

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:02 PM

Yes, there is a 25yr rule.
Also as noted above, modifications have to be limited to same type engine swaps, no replacement galvanized chassis etc.
Once it's landed and registered, I guess if you do want to swap these things over, at least in Minnesota, you would be best off having your car 'officially' inspected before and after, so it doesn't get impounded.

That's close but not quite everything. There is the 25 year rule for DOT compliance,the 21 year rule for EPA compliance and then there are the rules for each of the 50 States concerning smog and//or inspection. I would be very hesitant to buy one that someone else has imported - as noted above there have been many Defenders seized and crushed because people try to finesse the rules. Minis are another one to be wary of.

#23 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:06 PM

Why buy an import one when they were sold over there anyway?

 

NAS (North Yank Spec) kit like the lights, crossmember (I think) etc are often fitted as upgrades over here.



#24 OFFLINE   Clanger

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:00 PM

Why buy an import one when they were sold over there anyway?

NAS (North Yank Spec) kit like the lights, crossmember (I think) etc are often fitted as upgrades over here.

Because there were only 525 Defender 110s officially imported to the US in 1993. One of these in good condition can fetch anywhere up to $100,000. They sold the 90 for a few more years but even they go for stupid money if you can find one.

There was a company the would "federalize" one for you but that usually cost $25,000 or more on top of the price of buying and importing one.

When the Defender turned 25 quite a few were brought over but as I say above people were sometimes a bit naughty when it came to compliance. And of course there is the old favourite of selling a later model as an exempt older model by use of a little trickery on the paperwork. The Feds got very sad about that and started to crush whatever ones they could find.
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#25 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:06 PM

Blimey, I thought loads got sold over there!



#26 OFFLINE   Roobarb

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:27 PM

People have also been trying tricky stuff with other cars too.

The mk1 Lotus Elise has been brought over as a chassis and then had Hond a engine conversions (legalish) while a bunch of Nissan GTRs are floating about where they were disassembled (chassis without engines) and then reassembled here (a big no-no).

My wife's hairdressers husband got served with a 'we know you have an illegal GTR and we are going to come get it' paper. Luckily for him, the engine in his was from a different GTR. Still caused some significant headaches for him though.

Living near Canada makes it all the more difficult to resist, where the classic car date is 20yrs, so they get some of the older STis etc. There have been a few people fighting to keep their imprezas they have bought from over the boarder.

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#27 OFFLINE   anonymous user

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:48 PM

I never realised they went for that sort of money, I should sell mine over there, I'd be rich. I expect the shipping would wipe out most profit though
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#28 ONLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:05 PM

How does it work if you bought something interstate that turned out to have the wrong engine? 200Tdi into defender for example? Would it just be impossible to register?

#29 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:48 PM

Defenders had 200Tdis or 300 Tdis as standard. Pre -Tdis weren't Defenders, they were 90/110s. Change over was 1990 I think.



#30 ONLINE   Dead_E23

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:40 PM

The bit that stood out to me in that description was that it had a new rear crossmember.  If it's anything like my 110, all that means is they finally had to replace the worst bit of a chassis that's not too far behind with the rot in other places (in my case the front dumb irons and outriggers), and for that money you would hope that whoever replaced it produces prettier welding than mine.

 

It's not the end of the world if you don't mind welding or paying the MOT man to do a bit every year, but my crystal ball says a replacement chassis will be required at some point, and if you weren't allowed to use galvanized ones that would be a problem in my eyes.   I'd just hate to swap everything onto a chassis that was probably going to start rusting before I'd finished bolting everything on!

 

I wonder what kind of spiders live in American Land Rovers?   Mine is like a haunted house inside.






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