Multinational People Movers feat Decker Dave and the Jolly Green Giants

[Felly Magic]

They weren't well maintained at MASS, that is a 100% certainty, stetsons & spurs, 

[cms206]

They weren't well maintained at MASS, that is a 100% certainty, stetsons & spurs,

I would counter that statement as being absolute bollocks.

 

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[Alfamale]

We sheffielders thank you for moving these up north!

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've been stuck behind one of these on the Mosborough Parkway or A57, as I said previous, the amount of black smoke they chucked out was phenomenal.

 

Full story on how they became redundant is available here: http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/breaking-school-bus-that-transports-15-000-passengers-a-day-across-south-yorkshire-to-be-cut-1-8522212

[davidfowler2000]

They weren't well maintained at MASS, that is a 100% certainty, stetsons & spurs,

 

Having witnessed the yard I will also counter that statement as being a complete pile of toss

[beko1987]

Just an average Scottish evening then!

[wuvvum]

Years ago someone had a London bus as a  Stock car transporter.

Cars in the bottom people up top.

Remember seeing it at Nelson.

Interesting - how did they load it?  I thought London buses were all rear-engined (apart from the Routemaster obvs) - did they manoeuvre the cars in through the side?  Or was it an actual Routemaster?

[wuvvum]

So were these originally Hong Kongian too?

[Sloth in a bowl]

I thought that I may have had a drink or two, but not so much that I keep seeing triple.

[Split_Pin]

I'm looking forward to seeing these out and about in the near future!

[Inspector Morose]

They weren't well maintained at MASS, that is a 100% certainty, stetsons & spurs,

 

You do spout some bollocks at times. With your viewpoint as an ex driver down south, how in the hell can you form such an opinion of an small operator that safely transported over 15,000 schoolchildren a day? They provided a valuable service to many, their buses we not in the first flush of youth, admittedly, but they did their job and did it well. The snobbery of people who cast such biased opinions for all to see are what drives people who break their backs to make things work, to just give up. As we see, yet another interesting operator has now gone, long live identikit corporate plastic conveyances.

[cms206]

So were these originally Hong Kongian too?

Yes, there are surprising amounts of HK deckers in the UK; Dave's yellow Olympian is a former Citybus Hong Kong example which will share yard space with our three former Kowloon Motor Bus examples.

 

Not many China Motor Bus Olympians survive in the UK and as far as I am aware none of KCRC's came to these shores.

 

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[cms206]

Scores on the doors over the 167 miles between Wetherby Services and Gretna Services via Scotch Corner...

 

MIL 5574 - Gardner 6LXCT/Voith - 92.35L, 8.22mpg

C45 HNF - Volvo TD102/Voith - 97.51L, 7.79mpg

BIG 3837 - Cummins L10/ZF - 74.92L, 10.13mpg

 

I suspect the Cummins figure is a bit off as the Gardner and Volvo-powered examples were brimmed but due to the Cummins pressurised fuel system that wasn't possible.

 

I'll be keeping an eye on them to see how they compare in service.

 

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[Matt]

Yes, there are surprising amounts of HK deckers in the UK; 

 

Why is this? Does it not cost a small fortune to ship them here?

[cms206]

MIL 5574 pictured in an earlier life, as KMB's 3BL59 in Hong Kong; this one along with 3BL159 are now dual door having lost their rearmost set of doors, 3BL152 is now single door rebuilt with a wide front entrance and a UK-spec front roof dome.

 

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[Mally]

Interesting - how did they load it?  I thought London buses were all rear-engined (apart from the Routemaster obvs) - did they manoeuvre the cars in through the side?  Or was it an actual Routemaster?

 

Must have been around 1970, so bus would be much older.

Current coaches are rear engined and they use them, I have built a few Seddon bus chassis, the engine's quite flat.

Will try to find a photo, Can't remember if they used a ladder or stairs were hinged.

[Split_Pin]

I find HK buses fascinating, it's like a whole other dimension of buses that look a bit like those in the U.K. but aren't.

 

Shall these be staying green?

[cms206]

Why is this? Does it not cost a small fortune to ship them here?

Generally speaking, other than Stagecoach in ths 1980s no-one in the UK bought high capacity double deckers - even at that, Stagecoach only had three (F110 NES, F201/2 FHH).

 

Come the early 2000s high capacity deckers were becoming more fashionable, with Stagecoach alone bringing in around a hundred from Hong Kong and Kenya; of those, 55-ish Hong Kong Citybus Cummins-powered Olympians dating from 1988-1993 were for the launch of the Megabus network - Dave Fowler's being one of them - plus 25 or so 1986 Gardner powered Olympians from Kowloon Motor Bus and a similar number of 1994 Dennis Dragons from Stagecoach Kenya in 2000.

 

On top of those, First brought in ten former China Motor Bus triaxle Olympians, EnsignBus brought in large batches of Dennis Dragons, Dennis Condors, MCW Super Metrobuses and Leyland Olympians, two Singapore Bus Service Volvo Olympians (one each for First and Metroline), plus more imported by operators such as MASS Engineering where our trio came from.

 

Import costs at the time were favourable, meaning that even buying, importing and recertifying for a bus which at the time was still considered midlife (12-18 years old, generally) were more or less on a par with buying a former UK vehicle, with the bonus of anything up to 126-seats in place of around 77 in a UK-spec, two axle decker. Many of the Olympians, Metrobuses, Dragons and Condors imported ended up open top as sightseeing buses in London where more seats with no roof meant more bums on sightseeing buses.

 

Import costs today from HK are around the £8k mark from memory. We looked at bringing in triaxle Alexander or Duple bodied Dennis Trident 3s but we needed buses quicker than we could ship them in.

I find HK buses fascinating, it's like a whole other dimension of buses that look a bit like those in the U.K. but aren't.

 

Shall these be staying green?

These three were all bodied at Falkirk I think, so in a way they've come home!

 

They'll be going red in due course... not sure what to do with the interiors at the moment, they've been trowelled with bright blue paint inside which looks terrible.

 

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[Split_Pin]

Very interesting piece that, not something I knew at all. That might explain the numbers of HK bus models that became available on the UK market around the same time, I once had a fair few.

[davidfowler2000]

You do spout some bollocks at times. With your viewpoint as an ex driver down south, how in the hell can you form such an opinion of an small operator that safely transported over 15,000 schoolchildren a day? They provided a valuable service to many, their buses we not in the first flush of youth, admittedly, but they did their job and did it well. The snobbery of people who cast such biased opinions for all to see are what drives people who break their backs to make things work, to just give up. As we see, yet another interesting operator has now gone, long live identikit corporate plastic conveyances.

 

This. All of this.

 

Without actually inspecting an operator how can anyone form an opinion of how well or not something is maintained? As mentioned the buses are old. Even by school bus standards, 30+ years is not a young bus but the fact they are still going (quite strongly I may add) is at least indicative of decent maintenance. All this as well from an operator which has a green score from some bus operators federation (I forgot the actual name. cms206 knows) meaning that over at least the last 12 months they have not had a single prohibition from VOSA running a fleet of 70 elderly Olympians, Dragons, Condors, Tridents, DB220s, B7LTs.... etc.

 

And fair enough they are very scruffy but again that shouldn't count for anything. It does though, which is an arse, but then you've got to remember that Brightbus is the trading name of MASS Engineering - an ENGINEERING company. Engineers are silly finicky when it comes to perfection but not necesarily bothered about appearance. It wouldn't surprise me when the 3 green decker are inspected over a pit they will look like 10 - 15 year old motors where it counts for safety, maintenance and running.

[The Moog]

That's really interesting about buses being imported. Every day is a school day

[jayroller]

Oh, I say...    *swoons*

[Felly Magic]

Andy a DAF fuel pump on a Volvo engine says a lot, bodging to keep a vehicle on the road. When an operator simply shuts down, without attempt to sell an allegedly viable company off does ring alarm bells. I have a nasty feeling he was staring down the barrel of a gun, because schools transport isn't really viable these days. These are the first to face the chop in funding from local authorities, who in many areas are now demanding full DDA compliant vehicles, as many schools now accept pupils in wheelchairs. I've noticed especially around here, schools services are now registered as local services, accepting all passengers, operators are having to do this, because money paid by local councils barely covers the diesel, let alone the wages, registering as local services immediately makes the schools services qualify for BSOG, but then the crunch comes, this then requires DDA compliant vehicles. I suspect this is the situation MASS/Brightbus was facing, and funds simply were not there to wholesale replace the fleet, and what lowfloor stuff he had bought, parts were NLA, DAF are not a wise choice 2nd hand, even Arriva are now struggling to keep DB250s on the road. Something isn't quite right with the financials either, nothing is showing up on any company check sites, this sets off even further alarm bells, and does make me wonder if he's been running on an overdraft for quite some time. I've a feeling he jumped ship before the ministry revoked on financial grounds

[Felly Magic]

Did they ever put a two-stroke diesel in a double decker? that must sound glorious at full chat.

 

 

I'm sure the CiE Bombardier double deckers in Dublin had Detroit 2 strokes

[somewhatfoolish]

Did they ever put a two-stroke diesel in a double decker? that must sound glorious at full chat.

Google suggests only one(in the UK at any rate), a single Foden PVD had a FD6 put in it but clearly it was about as attractive to PSV operators as a dose of clap.

 

I'm sure the CiE Bombardier double deckers in Dublin had Detroit 2 strokes

They would sound very exotic over here; a Greyhound soundtrack in Ireland!

 

I have strong if not fond memories of being bussed to and from school in a series of tired ex-Midland Scottish Y-bodies owned by McColls, leavened occasionally by the luxury* of a Duple or Plaxton coach with a working cassette player(gasp!) or rarely a tv and video(swoon!), probably all on Leopard running gear.

[cms206]

Andy a DAF fuel pump on a Volvo engine says a lot, bodging to keep a vehicle on the road. When an operator simply shuts down, without attempt to sell an allegedly viable company off does ring alarm bells. I have a nasty feeling he was staring down the barrel of a gun, because schools transport isn't really viable these days. These are the first to face the chop in funding from local authorities, who in many areas are now demanding full DDA compliant vehicles, as many schools now accept pupils in wheelchairs. I've noticed especially around here, schools services are now registered as local services, accepting all passengers, operators are having to do this, because money paid by local councils barely covers the diesel, let alone the wages, registering as local services immediately makes the schools services qualify for BSOG, but then the crunch comes, this then requires DDA compliant vehicles. I suspect this is the situation MASS/Brightbus was facing, and funds simply were not there to wholesale replace the fleet, and what lowfloor stuff he had bought, parts were NLA, DAF are not a wise choice 2nd hand, even Arriva are now struggling to keep DB250s on the road. Something isn't quite right with the financials either, nothing is showing up on any company check sites, this sets off even further alarm bells, and does make me wonder if he's been running on an overdraft for quite some time. I've a feeling he jumped ship before the ministry revoked on financial grounds

People like you are the reason people like MASS don't let enthusiasts in - you're fucking clueless.

 

I have personally spoken with the proprietor on a number of occasions and shit like that getting thrown about is another reason he's shutting up shop.

 

A DAF pump on a Volvo is ingenious AND it works. Also our Gardner Olympian, even after 270 miles flat out, is still bone dry. As were ALL the Gardner Olympians he had. If you had any idea the stuff he had in waiting - all at the yard too, which he owns too - you'd actually struggle to not be impressed.

 

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[bigstraight6]

I think it's great that these vehicles are going to continue in service, will a degree of ingenuity be required regarding parts to keep them on the road or is it more straightforward than that? I'm looking forward to a running report!

[cort1977]

Well, I learnt a lot about buses reading this thread, keep it coming.  

 

I don't know anything about bus engines but let me give an uninformed opinion anyway   Surely there is nothing wrong with running a 'DAF' pump on a Volvo engine provided it meets the required pressure and flow rate and is competently installed and so on?   Not a bodge but an engineered substitution.

[somewhatfoolish]

The pumps are all made by Bosch, CAV etc anyway.

[davidfowler2000]

It's a bodge-not-a-bodge to run the DAF pump on a Volvo TD102. The injection system (and therefore the pump) is Bosch.

 

Everything on the pumps are identical bar the tuning. Mounting, drive, injector pipework, firing order. All the same. Difference being is that the particular DAF pump on C45 is designed for an engine ~8 Litres whereas the Volvo TD102 it is mounted to is 9.6 Litres. Hence why it works (well) but has no power. The Volvo engine is starving for fuel and probably only producing 100 - 150 bhp.

 

Luckily Andy's work has a half dozen old Volvo pumps pulled from dead coaches so one of those should let the engine run it's full 260+ horsespower.

[beko1987]

You going to accidentally swap the highest powered one into the yellow bus?