It'll never be a classic...

[PiperCub]

Scrapped a '77/78 reg'd Mk4 Cortina 2 door as it was about to totally fall apart in every respect - body and mechanically (the smoke screen was worthy of Mr.Bond and drivers door often jammed so had to do the Dukes-of-Hazzard entry/egress - really!).

 

It was utterly worthless shit, got £15 (after I stripped a few bits off) and was grateful. Am told by the Ford-lickers and OMGOSF brigade that 2-doors are worth a mint now as they were rare new and are pretty well extinct over here now and I should have kept it for the last 25 years.............. Yes, sure. 

[Wilko220]

[timolloyd]

I often wonder about the randomness of the market. As someone said above, Rootes chod that struggles to appreciate versus Ford and VW scene tax.

 

I wonder if there is a corrolation between peak sales volumes and birth years, and people born in certain decades coming into money and spiking demand for particular models and brands they remember?

[PiperCub]

^^ Yes, the nostalgia thing plays heavy here too, either dad/mum had one when I was a nipper or it was my first car or favourite car as a teen (Couldn't afford one then, can now). Actual logic doesn't always come into it.

[AlabamaShrimp]

Mark 1 Escort syndrome. Values are insane for the larger part imo, but I would still regard an utterly mint, correct spec Mexico and actually worth the £35'000 the command. It's a bona fide classic car worthy to stand next to an E Type.

 

A four door 1100L? Get the fuck out of here. That's just porridge.

See I don't get this. Why do you think a Mexico be seen as extra special but a low spec (the most common) be worthless shit?

 

OK so ones a bit faster than the other and has slightly different different wheel arches, and then?

 

As we know most people with have had the normal* version of a car and its pretty rare that you can go anywhere fast so what's the obsession with always having the fast* one.

 

People comment on my car but nearly piss their pants when I say I've got an XR2 as well, I hate the fucking thing but I aren't getting rid of it as I can't afford any Mk2 Fiesta now.

 

Tldr: all cars eventually become classic* some cost more than others.

[alcyonecorporation]

190e's? I see them advertised usually between £1-5k but don't really see the value in them, mine was £375 and although it is a nice enough car, there's so many better cars out there for the money.

 

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, but - no disrespect - you don't really see the value in anything. 

[TripleRich]

From a restoration point of view I can see anything made after 2000 being very difficult to work with.  Lets say you have a 2016 Merc C class and you leave it in the garage and don't touch it for 20 years....

 

First it will have forgotten its own key and need reprogramming to a new one.  Finding somebody with the right kit will be difficult.

Most if not all the sensors around the car will be buggered and you wont be able to get new ones

The adjustable suspension wont work and you wont get spares for it 

All the motors in the heater box wont work

The electric sunroof and wind deflector wont work

At least one of the ABS sensors will be broken and you won't be able to get another meaning you can't pass an mot

If you can get the injection system working again and start the engine it wont move because the ecu for the gearbox will have shat itself and need reprogramming or replacing.

 

Most modern cars have far too many sensors and systems to be fixable in 20 years.  Tech will have moved on and the equipment and knowledge for the cars will have been lost.  Even getting 90s stuff going can be difficult as ABS sensors for certain models get harder to find.

 

Unless theres a big aftermarket catering for this stuff in future I'd say anything made in the 21st century wont be a classic just because of the unserviceable nature of modern vehicles.

[Split_Pin]

30 odd years ago owning a car, particularly something like a Capri or Manta, no matter how fooked-looking, was still something a bit special.

 

Even the MK2 Fiestas etc of my yore were something of a privilege, most of us drove our mums cars.

[danthecapriman]

Looked on eBay and there's silly money getting asked for Volvo 740 estates, some at a couple of grand. About £4-500 would be about right.

That's the other thing worth remembering sometimes. Just because someone asks money like that doesn't mean they'll ever get it.

Some of the cars priced like that sit for sale for months and years.

[Sir Snipes]

From a restoration point of view I can see anything made after 2000 being very difficult to work with.  Lets say you have a 2016 Merc C class and you leave it in the garage and don't touch it for 20 years....

 

First it will have forgotten its own key and need reprogramming to a new one.  Finding somebody with the right kit will be difficult.

Most if not all the sensors around the car will be buggered and you wont be able to get new ones

The adjustable suspension wont work and you wont get spares for it 

All the motors in the heater box wont work

The electric sunroof and wind deflector wont work

At least one of the ABS sensors will be broken and you won't be able to get another meaning you can't pass an mot

If you can get the injection system working again and start the engine it wont move because the ecu for the gearbox will have shat itself and need reprogramming or replacing.

 

Most modern cars have far too many sensors and systems to be fixable in 20 years.  Tech will have moved on and the equipment and knowledge for the cars will have been lost.  Even getting 90s stuff going can be difficult as ABS sensors for certain models get harder to find.

 

Unless theres a big aftermarket catering for this stuff in future I'd say anything made in the 21st century wont be a classic just because of the unserviceable nature of modern vehicles.

 

People have always said that. When Mantas went from Carb. and Points to EFI and Electronic Ignition everybody said you'd never be able to fix them. However, they were wrong then but I believe as you do about modern cars. A combination of deliberate, premature obsolescence and the dealerships dropping parts support within a few years will do them in. It's a rather extreme case but Laguna 2s with the IDE engine are already in that situation.

What are the chances of getting handbrake motors for a 2007 Passat in another 5 or 6 years time? 

[New POD]

when my granddad stopped driving, he gave his Beige Allegro Vandom plas with Green Leather and walnut picnic trays to my Uncle. I offered him £800 for it, despite me thinking it was worth £500 (which I later spent on a 1275 sport metro). He refused to sell it to me. Because it would soon be a classic and worth £2K. So he stripped it of the EUL 27 reg number putting it on a NEW XJS v12 and left it to go rotten in his damp garage, before scrapping it after his father passed away.

 

Who would have thought it would be worth as much as an XJS V12 20 years later.

[Chris2cv]

As Rusty Sills says above, I think that most modern cars COULD go on for very long times, but the majority wont. As parts get harder to buy (the maker that I work for seems to discontinue parts by 15 years old at the latest, and often quite a bit younger) will the pattern parts market step in? If there are thousands of the cars left then they probably will, if there are a few then probably not. I will (unofficially) often give part numbers or try alternative sources if I cannot get a part legitimately but availability and cost will inevitably mean the decline of those remaining. As they get rarer they (mostly) get more valuable, in some cases to the extent that parts may become available again, albeit probably not from the main dealers.

 

  Personally, a classic is a car that means something to me, whether a "true" classic such as the E type, 60's and 70's cars that I admire, but will probably never own, or the "modern classics" - cars that my Dad or family owned, the cars I used to see, Metro's like I leaned to drive in. 

 

  Someone on facebook was claiming that nothing post 1948 could ever be classic, which seemed rather extreme to me. He is certainly free to believe that, just as I am free to disagree. To me, those cars are totally irrelevant - interesting but so far away from my experience that they are only museum pieces. We traced Grandad's Morris 8 a few years ago, in theory I would love to buy it and do it up, but my 2cv terrifies me on the motorway, I could not drive something like this, on modern fast roads.

 

 Getting back to topic, I was offered a Capri for £100 a few years ago and a DS and A30 for "a drink". None of them were good examples, but probably a few grands worth easily in hindsight. My brother in law as a 1990 Mercedes 190 and 2003 Audi A4, both of which he insists could be road worthy for £100, neither of which have moved in 5 years of more. Both have flat tyres and are probably seized, I wouldn't give him £100 for the pair, but he insists they are classics. An enthusiast could probably get them going, for nearer £1000 each, but they wont, they will sit there until they fall to bits, then everyone else's car will get slightly rarer and more valuable!

 

  My own 2002 Clio will probably never be a classic, but is still a great little car, fast, comfortable, very economical and does more miles now than the Stepway that replaced it. Basically, if you like it, and you enjoy driving it, who cares what anyone else thinks? 

[25v6turbo]

When Renault launched the Safrane in 1992 no one really liked it,then in V6 form, the top of the range most expensive Renault failed to deliver with several issues and poor sales they only sold sub 700 in the UK in the top of the range(28k in 1993)RXE version....

 

Roll on nearly 25 years and a few noises are being made with a number of collectors that this is one Renault to have as its value is to rise,problem is there are so few still existing that supply and demand is being outweighed,i know about 5 people who want a V6 Safrane but they simply cant track one down,a once high priced luxury car for Renault that turned into a car that was almost unsellable has now become a wanted item in certain circles

[bigstraight6]

In the latest practical classics there is a buyers guide for the original smart car which I couldn't quite believe, how could one of those hateful throw away things could be thought of as a classic, I drove one once and have never felt so unsafe in a vehicle. An Austin A30 on worn crossplies would have been more agreeable.

But I suppose the bubble cars of the late fifties and early sixties would have been thought of the same way when they were 10-20 years old. I will never get into another smart car though!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

See I don't get this. Why do you think a Mexico be seen as extra special but a low spec (the most common) be worthless shit?

 

OK so ones a bit faster than the other and has slightly different different wheel arches, and then?

 

 

 

 

The Mexico was an AVO car. A Twin Cam/RS1600 with the 1600GT X-Flow. It drove nothing like a regular Escort and like many other 'halo' cars (E30 M3, 205GTI) it had a magic blend of steering, roadholding and handling. A regular Escort was okayish but read road tests are they were damned with faint praise (shit, basically). 

The AVO stuff looked similar to the Halewood tosh but it just wasn't in the same ballpark. 

 

The Mexico was a silk purse from a sow's ear. I drove 1100/1300 Escorts 30 odd years ago and they were horrible then. A nice standard RS2000 is a lovely thing, even now.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Btw, I wouldn't berate anyone who restores and cherishes an 1100 Escort. Each to their own. But the AVO stuff has dragged the values of such cars way past what they ought to be worth. I'd rather have a Citroen GS or a BLMC 1300.

[UltraWomble]

And...

That said with the Bingo, the Phase 1 & Phase 2 were once everywhere and already the Phase 1 is a rare sight, so just like the ADO16 they will suddenly vanish from the roads as a common sight - unlike the ADO16 I dont think they will have the same enthusiasm to keep them going and will become idle curios at car shows in 10 years or so.

[danthecapriman]

I'd love a mk1 or 2 Escort, but I'd want a normal one. An original mk1 1300 2 door, still complete with those lovely little wheel trims they used to have would do me.

They're good little cars, even in base form, if you accept them for what they are. The vast majority of them were just daily transport for the masses. But that to me makes them iconic and a little piece of the past for normal people.

As nice as the Mex or RS models are it's the run of the mill cars that I find more interesting. Same for my Capri I suppose, everyone remembers the RS3100, 2.8i etc etc but people forget that those ones weren't anywhere near as common or affordable as the peasant spec cars like mine. They were the ones real people could afford and they've mostly disappeared now. In a weird way I think that makes the normal models more iconic than the flagship models.

[Hendry]

Just you wait. E36 M3's, 328i Sports, Clio 16v's, Astra GSi's are all on the way up already.  Another 5 years and an early Mondeo will be attracting alarming four figure bids on Ebay not to mention ST170 Focus type stuff. These were all cars that were either genuinely desirable or in the case of the Mondeo, very good cars that were once ubiquitous - plus OMG FORD SENE TACKS YO. There all bloody good to drive too and don't give much away to modern stuff. 

 

I doubt Vectra B's or any Rover stuff will ever be worth a carrot so no point in keeping these for investment. Anything made 15-20 years ago that hasn't already started going up in value probably won't.

 

I disagree about Vectra Bs, I think the Supertourings, GSis, and the MSD things will rise in value a bit like Cavalier Turbos, GSis etc are now. 

 

As for Rovers, 218 VVC BRM LE? I think the MGs will be worth something in a few years too, things like the ZR and ZS. 

 

I think performance Fords will always be sought after and thus fall into this bracket, even current model Focus RSs, Fiesta STs and stuff in 30 years. 

 

Things like Clio 172/182, Vauxhall VXRs, even Corsa B SRis and GSis, because they were what people wanted when they were new, people aspired to them, but basically I think every car will become a classic and go up in value when it gets old enough, the desirable when new stuff will just get there much quicker. 

[Ghosty]

Daihatsus. They're not cheap for what they are, but the prices of them just seem to stay the same regardless of age.

[Twiggy]

 

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that Dad's 1933 Austin 7 was sold in much better condition than when bought - for just £15 in 1960.

 

To get this in perspective, in 1960, £15 would have bought a minimum of 60 gallons of petrol, at 5/- (25p) per gallon. Today, at £1.17 per litre, 60 gallons would 

 

cost you £318.70. Makes you think, doesn`t it ? 

[vulgalour]

What puts the price of classics up is the same thing that puts the price of certain artworks, wines, etc. up:  showing off.

 

If you go out and buy a minty mint Jowett Jupiter half the people at a car show aren't going to know what the fuck it is or how much it's worth, let alone how rare and brilliantly engineered it is.  Go out and buy yourself a Mk1 Escort, or an E-type and you'll have people fawning all over it and you because you've clearly got a lot of money.  People are weird like that.

 

Investing and speculating in classic cars is a mug's game.  Nobody really knows what's going to hit the big time because it's almost always something utterly disposable and rubbish. Just as an example, look at what other saloons were available in the 1970s and then look at the values on those for even the nicest example.  Some can still be got in good condition for banger money:

Hillman Avenger

Morris Marina

Citroen GS

Datsun 120/Violet

Peugeot 504

FSO 125P

Volvo 140

 

There's loads more, obviously, those are just the ones off the top of my head.  Essentially, if you like a car then keep it.  If you're worried about it never making money back or hitting classic status, cars are not for you, get a bus pass.

[eddyramrod]

I'd love a mk1 or 2 Escort, but I'd want a normal one. An original mk1 1300 2 door, still complete with those lovely little wheel trims they used to have would do me.

They're good little cars, even in base form, if you accept them for what they are. The vast majority of them were just daily transport for the masses. But that to me makes them iconic and a little piece of the past for normal people.

As nice as the Mex or RS models are it's the run of the mill cars that I find more interesting. Same for my Capri I suppose, everyone remembers the RS3100, 2.8i etc etc but people forget that those ones weren't anywhere near as common or affordable as the peasant spec cars like mine. They were the ones real people could afford and they've mostly disappeared now. In a weird way I think that makes the normal models more iconic than the flagship models.

I love to see the bread-and-butter models at shows.  This is exactly why, because they are the cars I remember and most likely drove.  When I had my Cyprus Capri it attracted a whole lot of attention everywhere it went, but it's funny how literally everyone's memories were of the three-litre.  Considering they were about 10% of the Capris ever built, I must have met almost every three-litre owner ever!  Mine, of course, was a 1600GT Kent, a whole different animal to the 1600 Pinto mk3 I'd owned years earlier and hated.  Halo effect of the 3.0?  Maybe, but you can't discount the Bullshit effect.

 

And whether basic model or not, I'd far rather have an Anglia than an Escort.  I think the 105E shape was at least 1000% prettier than the style-less blob that replaced it in 1968.  (My Anglia Super went to scrap in 1982.....   )

[Sir Snipes]

In the latest practical classics there is a buyers guide for the original smart car which I couldn't quite believe, how could one of those hateful throw away things could be thought of as a classic, I drove one once and have never felt so unsafe in a vehicle. An Austin A30 on worn crossplies would have been more agreeable.

But I suppose the bubble cars of the late fifties and early sixties would have been thought of the same way when they were 10-20 years old. I will never get into another smart car though!

I noticed on the cover they had a group test consisting of an MGB, TR5 and an AC I think? I was wondering just how many times those cars have appeared in that mag!

[Essex V6]

Saxo VTS & 106 GTI are good examples from my era (im 28), they were ten a penny when I was 21 and people were breaking them left right and center. Now they are getting rare and cars and parts are going up, its already happened to their predecessor the AX GT.

 

However I can imagine their lowly specced counterparts will be never be desirable.

I had a completely standard VTS and absolutely loved it. Would have another in a heartbeat especially a San Remo or Tour de Corse edition.

[Kiltox]

I had a completely standard VTS and absolutely loved it. Would have another in a heartbeat especially a San Remo or Tour de Corse edition.

Coming to a white room near you soon I reckon, been saying this for a few years now.

[Twiggy]

I noticed on the cover they had a group test consisting of an MGB, TR5 and an AC I think? I was wondering just how many times those cars have appeared in that mag!

 

On the cover: TR5, MGC, and Healey 3000.

[Essex V6]

I often wonder about the randomness of the market. As someone said above, Rootes chod that struggles to appreciate versus Ford and VW scene tax.

I wonder if there is a corrolation between peak sales volumes and birth years, and people born in certain decades coming into money and spiking demand for particular models and brands they remember?

That is absolutely the case in my opinion - early to mid 90's stuff like Impreza Turbos and Mitsi EVO's will soon be in demand - will need to be standard though

[Split_Pin]

They were the ones real people could afford and they've mostly disappeared now.

I would suggest that this pretty much sums the position up for me.

 

In 20 years, when they are all gone, no matter how shit it was, at least one select groups of people will all want one. I would actually challenge anyone with a broad enough mind to come up with a car from the 1980s or earlier that NOBODY now wants. Take Talbots, FSOs, even a SAO Penza. I and at least a few others get genuinely excited at the prospect!

[holbeck]

God bless interesting stuff that is worth F-all.