It'll never be a classic...

[RichardK]

Pootling about in the slightly messy 320 SLK and pondering, as I watch another car vanish in the rear view mirror, about the comparisons between this 17 year old, generally worthless banger and other old bangers I've had. Like a C-registered Capri that was rust-free and reliable, and cost me £150 in 2000.

 

I never got a V6 Capri - only had 1.6 and 2.0 models - and my brain goes "Hey, you've got the V6 version of the sporty car you love!".

 

In my head, the CLK and SLK are pretty close to where the Capri was. Admittedly the CLK never had the cultural reference - I don't believe any car of that era does - maybe Impreza does, actually. If someone said to you now, as you eye up a £350, rusty-arched CLK 230K "that'll be worth £10,000+ in 15 years, mark my words, and if you save a CLK55 or even a 430, they'll be worth double that", you would probably piss yourself laughing. Then have them down to the therapist.

 

But if someone had come up to my silver Laser and said "You know, if you just waxoyl this and keep it 15 years, it'll be worth £5000 easily - more if you keep all the paperwork, fit a new parcelshelf while you can still find one, and get shot of that shitty CD player for an uncut dash (it had an uncut dash in the boot, alongside a spare perfect parcelshelf)."

 

I don't think I would have believed them. I sold it for £400 - eventually. Oh, yeah, a 2.8i Special might be worth £1500 if it's been owned by an old chap, but a Laser? Just shite, scrap it.

 

I noticed on eBay an HA Viva for £9K. They're bloody awful things. Why?

 

What would you hoard that will never be a classic?

[oldcars]

My Kia Shuma, no chance of it ever being a classic, but as it was my late grandfathers, and a bit different i love it.

[Bobthebeard]

My Rover 75. I bought it therefore it will never be valuable or a classic. If I hadn't bought it it would have trebled in value by now.

[MorrisItalSLX]

A Fucked Hyundai that the scrappy diddn't even want. Low mileage and tidy interior though...

[clayts450]

Streetwise - oh yeah, they reckon it's gonna be a future classic, but won't happen coz (1) I own one and (2) OMGHGF - loads will be scrapped unnecessarily, more's the pity

 

https://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/comment/2017-06/future-classic-friday-rover-streetwise/

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

For most of its life with me I would have said my XJ40 would never be a classic, but I'm not so sure now. There seems to be a lot more interest in them than there was. I am pleased about this, but it wouldn't stop me 'hoarding' it, even if it proves to be as unloved in the future as it has been in the past.

 

Of the older cars, to me at least, the Impreza seems to me to be the dead cert for future collectability. It's even had an 'ugly phase'  to cull the numbers.

 

The Capri was always regarded as a good future bet - certainly the V6 ones were, anyway. I remember people joking that my neighbour's ratty silver 2.8i would be worth something one day. He used to joke that it would make him rich if only he could afford to keep it, since as a recent graduate he couldn't afford the petrol. He sold/scrapped it in the end because someone daubed 'WANKER' on the side in blue paint and his efforts to repair it were lacking in skill. The dauber was obviously a bit dense, because the 'WANK' bit was scrawled in large, bold capital letters, but there wasn't quite enough room for the 'er' bit, so they had to downscale to a couple of small lower case letters by the front headlight. It wasn't a great look and being in the early 1990s, Partridge had not yet made it fashionable.

 

The poor fellow asked around in the pub what he had possibly done to upset someone and a couple of days later he found a note saying, "soz - wrong car!" in very girly handwriting under his wiper... He tried to polish it off with no success and pre-Internet couldn't get out to buy spray paint for a few days - so he did have to drive round for a bit with it written down the side. He worked in Manchester, so I wonder whether Steve Coogan saw it!

No relevance to this thread, but I was suddenly reminded of it. I liked that car.

[mercrocker]

If never being a classic means being able to buy one at a sensible price, not having some arse talk bollocks about it on TV and generally getting on with life under the radar then I am quite happy for 190E Mercs to be tomorrow's "sleeper".  

 

I belong to a club where one of the committee still refers to our cars as "old bangers"  - I think I would prefer an old banger.  

 

I think stuff does eventually become classic, even if some take longer to be recognised as such.   It always amazed me how quickly Minors became regarded as Classic - even while they were still languishing in lock-ups, fields, hedges and behind rural garages.   I never thought of them as being particularly desirable and I am glad to say they are still not hugely valuable - just a bloody good "old banger"

[gadgetgricey]

Richard,

 

Aware this is off topic somewhat but keep looking at early CLK AMG55's.

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

 

As our resident Merc expert, are there any issues to watch out for apart from rust on arches etc,....

 

Cheers

[Ghosty]

Any non-VTEC Honda.

[eddyramrod]

Ahead of you, Richard...

If only I could weld, and had a big shed to work in.  However, what might be a slightly better bet:

[RichardK]

Richard,

 

Aware this is off topic somewhat but keep looking at early CLK AMG55's.

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

 

As our resident Merc expert, are there any issues to watch out for apart from rust on arches etc,....

 

Cheers

 

 

I don't know enough about the CLK AMG 55 specifically, but overall:

 

Rust, rust, rust, but subframe mounts are the killer from 190s to W211s - jacking points are easily spotted and repaired if the car is worth the spend, for example. (On, and check front spring perches. Keep forgetting that one, Fixable though).

 

Gearbox. It's a 722.6 from the late '90s to early 2000s so it will go wrong somewhere - but if preventative maintenance is undertaken, not catastrophically. Since it's an issue on the regular cars, I'd expect the AMG to also have issues with oil cooler pipes (whether the AMG has a separate gearbox cooler or one integrated into the radiator, I don't know - I suspect it'll be integrated). AMG valving/solenoids/clutch packs are different from what I've seen on US-based forums where people actually work on their gearboxes instead of scrapping the car to the sound of some rip-off "specialist" sucking air through their teeth (sorry. Bitter about the utter shitness of auto trans specialists in the UK).

 

Engines are tough as anything, and piss-easy to service routinely, so there's no excuse for neglect.

 

TBH I don't think there are any specific gotchas on the 55 that wouldn't apply to the regular CLK, except proportionately body/brakes/trim are a lower percentage of the car's value to sort, so a bargainous ratty AMG that is otherwise working would be a pretty tempting prospect. I think bumpers and skirts are specific to AMG so damage there would be a factor.

 

Also worth remembering that for all the little rubber seals around windscreen and stuff - things that perish and lead to water ingress and issues later - are often dirt cheap. Even the scraper seal and B-post finisher on the C140 was under £40 - so haggle hard on perished rubber bits that look tatty, knowing you can make a big improvement in the quality of the car later.

 

As a rule the early "mass produced" AMGs - E/CLK 55s, R63s and so forth - were expensive and still attracted knowledgeable owners in the first place, so they're not as shagged out as cheap lease E220s and so forth.

 

Also. Do it. The SLK 320 is exciting enough, I've driven a couple of cars with that AMG V8 (not CLKs though - E and G class) and it'll be ridiculously awesome.

[Talbot]

I still find it staggering that the utter shit that was available for less than the cost of a tank of juice 15/20 years ago is now worth megabucks.

 

I've never liked fords, and have rarely had anything to do with VWs, so the scene tax that these seem to demand has wafted over me, but seeing late-70's and early-80's shunters going for thousands and thousands of pounds is just peculiar..... mainly because I don't remember late-50's and early-60's dross being worth very much 20 years ago.  Was it?

[RichardK]

I still find it staggering that the utter shit that was available for less than the cost of a tank of juice 15/20 years ago is now worth megabucks.

 

I've never liked fords, and have rarely had anything to do with VWs, so the scene tax that these seem to demand has wafted over me, but seeing late-70's and early-80's shunters going for thousands and thousands of pounds is just peculiar..... mainly because I don't remember late-50's and early-60's dross being worth very much 20 years ago.  Was it?

 

 

Not really. Things like Rootes Minxes and the like have sort of stagnated around £4K for a very, very long time - like, in the late '90s a clean Minx was a £3500-4000 car, and you were buying on the commitment to travel to see it from a grotty little rectangle picture and a few minutes chatting on the phone to skilled bullshitters, getting there to find it was 90% filler, and MoTs were dodgy as anything, and tax discs and so forth...

 

Whereas now they're still around £3500-5000 for a decent enough one, and you get a load of pictures over email, and can prod MoT history online, and all the rot spots can be checked on the internet, and the chances of getting a decent (or honestly knackered) one are frankly, a lot higher.

[Dirk Diggler]

Speaking of Mercs, I think w210 55AMG; can't believe how cheap they are, even good ones.

[DSdriver]

I don't mind if my old cars don't become classics, as long as I can get classic car insurance for them

[RichardK]

TBH, I like the thought not because £££££s, but "hey, that £400 I spent on wings was actually worth it in the long run". It's a motivation to do the work nicely and well - catch 22, if all the Capri owners had thought the car might be worth more than an ISA in their retirement, and had maintained them accordingly, would Capris be worth as much...

 

(Investment comedy: Buying some premium bonds, I see a SPECIAL AWESOME GOVERNMENT BOND SALE; 3 year lock down... CHECK OUT THE RATE! Yes, give HMG your money and for every grand you give them to hold for three years, they will give you £67.50! YES! £1000, 3 years, £67.50!).

[danthecapriman]

TBH, I like the thought not because £££££s, but "hey, that £400 I spent on wings was actually worth it in the long run". It's a motivation to do the work nicely and well - catch 22, if all the Capri owners had thought the car might be worth more than an ISA in their retirement, and had maintained them accordingly, would Capris be worth as much...

 

(Investment comedy: Buying some premium bonds, I see a SPECIAL AWESOME GOVERNMENT BOND SALE; 3 year lock down... CHECK OUT THE RATE! Yes, give HMG your money and for every grand you give them to hold for three years, they will give you £67.50! YES! £1000, 3 years, £67.50!).

That's it in a nutshell.

 

Back then people bought cars. They were tools the same as they are now. When it became fucked it went in the bin. The same as now.

Very very very few people have the foresight to hoard and keep long term a load of cars that might or might not be worth money in future nor do they have the space and cash to do that. Few people in the 70's or 80's would buy a Capri or Escort and think 'I'll keep this cos it'll be worth a mint in 2017'! They bought the Capri or Escort because they thought it looked good, they liked it and needed it.

 

The reason Capri's and Escorts etc etc are worth so much now is down to nostalgia and more disposable income. The people that want them now are the people that watched The Sweeney and The Professionals or watched world rally championships or even had them as a company car new and now want to spend a bit of inheritance/savings/pension funds etc to either relive their youth a bit or pretend they are Jack Regan or Bodie/Doyle as they saw on TV as kids.

The problem is that those cars are now almost all gone so the few left become more and more valuable. It's largely down to the cars marketing and uses as to how quickly 'classic' status is reached. Ford were incredibly good at this, they used popular TV to show off their cars, motorsport etc etc did the same thing. That's why those cars get there first. It's irrelevant really how good the cars were in the first place. The other makes will follow but take longer as the guy that wants a Cortina mk3 finds he can't afford one anymore so looks at alternatives, he then buys a Marina instead and find it's actually no worse than the Cortina he originally wanted...

if that makes any sense!?

 

I had my Capri in 2004 when it was 30 years old. Was it a classic then? Yes, it was just becoming one and leaving behind it's past as a banger or unfashionable old coupe.

My Volvo 740 is almost 30 years old now. Is it a classic? No. It's still a big thirsty old banger that few people want.

 

The reason?

Because the Capri had always been on TV, or wall posters, motorsport or even just a cool car that looked the part and had 'that' image. People loved them as new or nearly new cars and wanted them.

The Volvo on the other hand had none of the above. If you compare them both as a car the Volvo wipes the floor with the Capri. It's better built, more reliable, safer... yet none of that seems to matter. The Volvo will become a classic one day, when there's very few left and people notice that (which is quickly happening now as it happens!) but because those cars didn't get on TV etc etc they will take longer to reach the status as a classic. Maybe one day someone will think 'I can't afford a Granada Cosworth, I wonder what else I can afford like that. Ah, that's a lovely old Volvo 740 turbo...' who knows!

 

Personally. I don't see cars of the 90's onwards as classics. I didn't like them new and I still don't like them now with a few exceptions. But to some people they will get there one day.

[danthecapriman]

I should probably add, the Volvo might not be a classic yet. But to me it is! I'll still look after it and keep it regardless of what anyone or the market thinks about it.

At the end of the day if you like it then buy it, look after it, and enjoy it. Be it an 80's Volvo or a 90's Mercedes or a 00's Smart car.

[mercrocker]

Vastly inflated "classic car" prices for Old Bangers are nothing new..... 

 

I well remember George Bishop be-moaning the fact, in a 1977 Classic Cars magazine, that a  tarted-up Austin Chummy had just been knocked down at auction for more than the next lot - a useable Maserati 3500GT.   

 

He wrote - 

 

"If a Maserati isn't a better motor car than an Austin 7 then I am a monkey's Uncle" 

 

I left school the year before that and cannot remember a single line of text from any school-book but I have never forgotten that line.

[hpi_matrix]

Saxo VTS & 106 GTI are good examples from my era (im 28), they were ten a penny when I was 21 and people were breaking them left right and center. Now they are getting rare and cars and parts are going up, its already happened to their predecessor the AX GT.

 

However I can imagine their lowly specced counterparts will be never be desirable.

[RayMK]

In 1954, we returned from Malta (Dad was in the RAF).  He had never owned a car before but had the necessary licence courtesy of the RAF and driving Albion ambulances during the war.  RAF Little Rissington was a bit out in the sticks and a car was a barely affordable possession when on £8 per week as a sergeant.  He squandered 3 weeks' pay on a 21 year old Austin 7 box saloon.  Pre-war cars, except for the more exotic brands, were cheapish and no-one regarded them as anything other than transport.  Scrap yards were piled high with stuff from the 1920s and 30s.  Most of the prewar cars still on the road were rusty, battered and could barely stop.  A7s took a long time to become classics or collectable.  In the late 1950s, Ford's 'upright' Prefect and Popular models were hopelessly outclassed by almost everything, but again they were cheap, numerous and spares were available from scrapyards.  Now, they are classics.

 

Given enough time and attrition, even the most mundane cars will become 'classics.'   I've seen this happen to Standard 8s, Vauxhall Vivas and even MK1 Escorts.  Early Audis are beginning to attract nostalgic interest. I am amused by the fact that even my Hyundai Stellar attracts the interest of doting classic car buffs.  I like it, but it has nothing to do with value or refinement .  Put a Sao Penza on the market and I would not be surprised if it attracted a mild feeding frenzy.  Immune from classic status?  I would expect something like a 1995 Hyundai Sonata to qualify because by the time a few wake up to the passing of this modest seller, they will all have rusted away.  

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that Dad's 1933 Austin 7 was sold in much better condition than when bought - for just £15 in 1960.

[oldcars]

My Rover 75. I bought it therefore it will never be valuable or a classic. If I hadn't bought it it would have trebled in value by now.

I think the V8s and launch cars might go up a bit in price. Can't see me getting rich off a facelift diesel however.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

Personally. I don't see cars of the 90's onwards as classics. 

 

 

Just you wait. E36 M3's, 328i Sports, Clio 16v's, Astra GSi's are all on the way up already.  Another 5 years and an early Mondeo will be attracting alarming four figure bids on Ebay not to mention ST170 Focus type stuff. These were all cars that were either genuinely desirable or in the case of the Mondeo, very good cars that were once ubiquitous - plus OMG FORD SENE TACKS YO. There all bloody good to drive too and don't give much away to modern stuff. 

 

I doubt Vectra B's or any Rover stuff will ever be worth a carrot so no point in keeping these for investment. Anything made 15-20 years ago that hasn't already started going up in value probably won't.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Vastly inflated "classic car" prices for Old Bangers are nothing new..... 

 

I well remember George Bishop be-moaning the fact, in a 1977 Classic Cars magazine, that a  tarted-up Austin Chummy had just been knocked down at auction for more than the next lot - a useable Maserati 3500GT.   

 

He wrote - 

 

"If a Maserati isn't a better motor car than an Austin 7 then I am a monkey's Uncle" 

 

I left school the year before that and cannot remember a single line of text from any school-book but I have never forgotten that line.

 

 

Mark 1 Escort syndrome. Values are insane for the larger part imo, but I would still regard an utterly mint, correct spec Mexico and actually worth the £35'000 the command. It's a bona fide classic car worthy to stand next to an E Type.

 

A four door 1100L? Get the fuck out of here. That's just porridge. 

[alcyonecorporation]

 Anything made 15-20 years ago that hasn't already started going up in value probably won't.

 

*looks in unit*

 

FUCK. 

[sierraman]

Looked on eBay and there's silly money getting asked for Volvo 740 estates, some at a couple of grand. About £4-500 would be about right.

[Yoss]

Streetwise - oh yeah, they reckon it's gonna be a future classic, but won't happen coz (1) I own one and (2) OMGHGF - loads will be scrapped unnecessarily, more's the pity

 

https://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/comment/2017-06/future-classic-friday-rover-streetwise/

The guy I bought my Favorit from had a Streetwise in his lock up. He said it was an ex Rover press car and he was keeping it for many of the reasons mentioned above. I hope he has a lot of patience.

[alcyonecorporation]

Looked on eBay and there's silly money getting asked for Volvo 740 estates, some at a couple of grand. About £4-500 would be about right.

 

Yes. I fell over when someone on the VOC forum wanted FIVE GRAND for a V90. 

It was ball-shatteringly mint, granted - and better than the one Volvo has at Arlanda, but my 960 estate was 2/3 the car and cost £225.

[chaseracer]

[DodgyBastard]

190e's? I see them advertised usually between £1-5k but don't really see the value in them, mine was £375 and although it is a nice enough car, there's so many better cars out there for the money.

 

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