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No MOT= No insurance?


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#1 OFFLINE   Lankytim

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:54 AM

I was chatting to an old mate of mine the other day and asked how his tatty 2.1 diesel Pug 406 was going. Turns out he doesn't have it anymore as it's been seized by the rozzers. The MOT was a month out and according to he police this invalidates the insurance, so car seized and 6 points and a fine.

I read a while ago that no MOT just knocked your insurance down to Third party only, I.e if you run into someone, the instance covers the damage to them and not you. Have things changed?

Seems pretty draconian to have your car seized and get 6 points for forgetting when your MOT runs out, forgetting about the MOT has happened to me and quite a few other people I know. There must be loads of absent minded motorists about who are paying for insurance which isn't valid if this is true.

The mate who told me about all of this is a bit of a fibber, so it's possible he didn't have insurance anyway and that's the real reason he lost his car. He also said his motor had no hope of getting an MOT, so it could've been seized for being unroadworthy.
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#2 OFFLINE   bramz7

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:59 AM

I imagine driving a hanging POS and then getting pulled for an unroadworthy vehicle is the real risk here.

I don't think my insurance specify in their terms of the car has to have MOT, but if I had an accident it would probably count against me.

More to the point, can the police even see if you have no MOT? I thought they only saw VED and insurance status.

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#3 OFFLINE   cpjitservices

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:03 AM

Says here having no insurance does invalidate your insurance.

 

http://www.octagonin...-car-insurance/

 

And rightly so, why should you be covered if your vehicle is not road worthy ?


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#4 OFFLINE   carlo

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:06 AM

As you are legally allowed to drive a car to an MOT station without MOT for a pre-booked one, your insurance must presumably cover this?


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#5 OFFLINE   Richard

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:07 AM

Says here having no insurance does invalidate your insurance.

 

http://www.octagonin...-car-insurance/

 

And rightly so, why should you be covered if your vehicle is not road worthy ?

 

I think they're making that up.


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#6 OFFLINE   cpjitservices

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:10 AM

I think they're making that up.

NO idea, but I'd doubt its worth the risk.

 

Though as above its ok for you to use if you are on your way to a Pre-booked MOT


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#7 OFFLINE   John F

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:15 AM

Back in the 1990s a mate crashed his Hillman Imp into another vehicle.

 

The Imp was not MOT'd but his insurance did pay out for the damage caused to the other vehicle, and covered the medical costs of my mate's passenger who broke his arm in the accident.


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#8 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:36 AM

Fairly sure it's an obligation to have a roadworthy car under your insurance. I've not a lot of sympathy to be honest, he ought to have it in a fit state.
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#9 ONLINE   Rusty Sills

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:40 AM

The company I worked for is years ago insisted on a valid MOT. Lack of MOT probably won't release their 3rd party liabilities though. I think I heard of people being chased by their insurance company for 3rdparty costs, post accident without MOT.

I imagine the specifics vary from one company to another.

#10 OFFLINE   barefoot

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

I would imagine if you're not taking the piss - a month overdue etc

 

A day overdue or on the way to a retest - You'd be fine.


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#11 OFFLINE   Volksy

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

My insurance paid out for replacement locks, recovery and keys/fob despite the MOT having expired three months earlier.


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#12 OFFLINE   cpjitservices

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:48 AM

It seems to be up to the discretion of the Insurer.

 

However, it is not worth the risk IMO.


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#13 OFFLINE   dave21478

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:53 AM

.... is a bit of a fibber, so it's possible he didn't have insurance anyway ....

 

 

This. Almost certainly.

 

No MOT is a non-endorsable offence on its own. Its a fine at worst and a pretty small one at that.

Invalidating your insurance? I doubt it very much. An unroadworthy car MIGHT invalidate insurance depending on policy wording, but unroadworthy is not the same as no MOT.

The link above is an insurance website, so not exactly an impartial source.

 

If you cut the roof off your astra, weld a load of spikes all over it and fit a V8, than as long as you have a policy document in your posession ie the insurers have not demanded it be returned or destroyed, then you still have 3rd party liability cover. This is a legal requirement and while insurers dont like it, they have to follow it. However they will almost certainly try to recover anything they have to pay out to a third party from the policy holder through the courts.


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#14 OFFLINE   dave21478

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:56 AM

There is also the possibility that the OPs pal failed the polices on the spot attitude test....mouthing off, knowing my rights, catch some proper criminals type of comments will incite them to find all the faults they can with the car. A determined cozzer could probably find enough faults on a huge percentage of cars on the road to call them unroadworthy if they are being picky about things.


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#15 OFFLINE   barefoot

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:03 AM

... catch some proper criminals ...

 

 

I did that - once.


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#16 OFFLINE   Capree

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:05 AM

The company I worked for is years ago insisted on a valid MOT. Lack of MOT probably won't release their 3rd party liabilities though. I think I heard of people being chased by their insurance company for 3rdparty costs, post accident without MOT.

I imagine the specifics vary from one company to another.

This is how I see it too. Plus lots of additional costs and hassle when insurance is due for renewal.

As for Bramz7 above asking if the cops even know if your vehicle is MOT'd, hmm, wake up mate. Anyone at all can view any car's MOT history within a few seconds on the DVLA site and coppa traffic cars flag it automatically via the dashcam registration recognition setup.
That's not intended as a personal dig Bramz, the coppas know yo shit and they gonna bust yo ass muthafucka. (Sorry, been watching too much Sons Of Anarchy).

#17 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:09 AM

I thought MoT is such a surefire seal of roadworthyness for a year without ever checking your car over yourself?

How could one possibly let something this beneficial lapse for even a millisecond?

 

May I remind you clowns that there is a huge difference between "not roadworthy" and "no valid MoT"?

 

I guess in the case the OP described the rozzers had many valid reasons to crack down on that delinquent.

If everything appears to be okay and you missed your MoT a few weeks, all you get is a raised forefinger.


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#18 OFFLINE   bramz7

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:12 AM

This is how I see it too. Plus lots of additional costs and hassle when insurance is due for renewal.
As for Bramz7 above asking if the cops even know if your vehicle is MOT'd, hmm, wake up mate. Anyone at all can view any car's MOT history within a few seconds on the DVLA site and coppa traffic cars flag it automatically via the dashcam registration recognition setup.
That's not intended as a personal dig Bramz, the coppas know yo shit and they gonna bust yo ass muthafucka. (Sorry, been watching too much Sons Of Anarchy).



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#19 OFFLINE   Kiltox

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:15 AM

This comes up quite a lot on various motoring forums - it might be against the terms and conditions of your policy meaning they can chase you for damages in the event of a claim however it doesn't lead to you being deemed to have no insurance and having your car seized.

Police checking for insurance don't go through the policy wording with a fine tooth comb.
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#20 OFFLINE   Felly Magic

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:19 AM

Rough guess is that he's been caught with no tax, no MOT or insurance on a car that is a deathtrap, and he was economical with the truth to you, +1 for him gobbing off at plod too, verdict, total dickhead


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#21 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:23 AM

This. Almost certainly.

No MOT is a non-endorsable offence on its own. Its a fine at worst and a pretty small one at that.
Invalidating your insurance? I doubt it very much. An unroadworthy car MIGHT invalidate insurance depending on policy wording, but unroadworthy is not the same as no MOT.
The link above is an insurance website, so not exactly an impartial source.

If you cut the roof off your astra, weld a load of spikes all over it and fit a V8, than as long as you have a policy document in your posession ie the insurers have not demanded it be returned or destroyed, then you still have 3rd party liability cover. This is a legal requirement and while insurers dont like it, they have to follow it. However they will almost certainly try to recover anything they have to pay out to a third party from the policy holder through the courts.


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#22 OFFLINE   hairnet

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:30 AM

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#23 OFFLINE   Capree

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:36 AM

Bramz, as said above, not meant as a personal dig at all. The MOT check is done automatically for PC Coppa when cam in cop-car sees your reg. Whether or not they act on it is another thing.

Don't know if you've checked it out already but free DVLA website "Check Vehicle MOT History" is handy if you intend maybe buying a car.

#24 OFFLINE   John F

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:41 AM

Yep. I was once stopped by the police on the M1 in my (pristine) Calibra and asked when its MOT was due. I'd just done a full pre-MOT check and fettling session, so I said "In two weeks' time, officer".

 

No.

 

I'd got the wrong month, it should have been 2 weeks ago. I got a £30 fine through the post from plod, and since my car was clearly well-maintained and in good order they were happy to let me proceed on my journey without a valid MOT.


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#25 OFFLINE   Richard

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:43 AM

The MOT check is done automatically when cam in cop-car sees your reg.

 

Is it though? I often do checks on cars that catch my eye when I'm a passenger on a long journey and quite a lot of them turn out not to have an MOT. On local Facebook groups you get people giving out registration numbers of Transits that have been caught sniffing around or actually stealing stuff. These Transits NEVER have any of tax, MOT or insurance, yet they seem to be able to drive around unhindered.



#26 OFFLINE   Dave_Q

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:55 AM

Octagon insurance are shitlarks of the highest order so I wouldn't take their unreferenced link as gospel.

 

 

In short, as insurance is a contract the T&Cs will state whether a lack of MOT invalidates the insurance. 

 

I've just quickly checked my FJ classic policy and it makes no mention of either MOT or roadworthiness.

 

 

Some may say your cover is invalid if there is no MOT or not roadworthy (wouldn't be surprised if Octagon are one of these)

 

Most don't, the only thing affected by lack of MOT is the value of the car written off (source: an insurance man on a forum somewhere, soz no link.)


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#27 OFFLINE   Capree

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:56 AM

Is it though? I often do checks on cars that catch my eye when I'm a passenger on a long journey and quite a lot of them turn out not to have an MOT. On local Facebook groups you get people giving out registration numbers of Transits that have been caught sniffing around or actually stealing stuff. These Transits NEVER have any of tax, MOT or insurance, yet they seem to be able to drive around unhindered.


The coppas have access to the info but don't always act on it. They have to speak to the driver, it's not an automatic fine through the post. Yet.

#28 OFFLINE   NorfolkNWeigh

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 12:01 PM

Last year a girl that works for Mrs N had an accident with a foreign lorry in her BMW 1 series, not serious but Old Bill turned up. An Astra and a Traffic car that just happened to be passing. The BMW wasn't Mot'd , the girl was upset and called Mrs N from the roadside, Mrs called me as she thinks I'm dodgy( stop sniggering at the back).
I went down there ,calling a mate for a pre-booked* MOT on the way. Tried to tell the girl when I got there to say she was on her way for MOT - she wouldn't lie to the Copper ( youth of today,eh?) so I drove the BM off to take it for MOT- there was a Traffic copper and a beat Sergeant there, the Traffic bloke wasn't interested but the other one kept waffling on about Insurance. The car came back as insured and I told them I had insurance to drive it, although they didn't check.

About an hour later at the MOT station( where it passed) the Sergeant in the Astra turned up and gave her a ticket for no MOT. He was a twat and if he could have done her for no insurance I'm sure he would have. The Traffic bloke, in contrast didn't seem that bothered when he found out she had a licence and insurance, I got the impression he'd have believed* the pre-booked thing too.

#29 OFFLINE   bramz7

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 12:05 PM

Didn't take it personally Capree, don't worry.

I guess it's just until the vagueness from the DVLA around the matter disappears, it'll continue to be a cloudy matter. On the one hand they say you can drive an MOT expired vehicle to get repairs (from who or where it doesn't specify), but on the other a vehicle judged to be unroadworthy is a huge fine.

Moral of the story, don't drive a banger and expect no one to notice?
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#30 OFFLINE   WilsonWilson

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 12:52 PM

Please insert post in relation to insured mot exempt vehicle in debatable roadworthyness condition.
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