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277 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   JayW

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:18 PM

I'd happily weld it up (properly) and get another 50k out of it. Newsflash: most cars are made out of welded steel and a proper repair would be stronger than the original.

Damn right the MOT isn't perfect but it's only an indication and it's still the owners responsibility to ensure the car is safe for EVERY use. Doesn't mean it's practical.

This coming from the guy than ran out of time (and bolts) to attach the Tranny's passenger seat for MOT so wazzed it in with M6 bolts. Completely worthless in a crash but perfectly legal. (since replaced).
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#62 OFFLINE   Lacquer Peel

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:21 PM

helen-lovejoy-wont-somebody-please-think
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#63 OFFLINE   richbraith

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:32 PM

You should see what kinds of cars my parents drove their kids around in - and I suspect the same applies to many others !

Yep, I spent my childhood in cars with floors that were barely there anymore.


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#64 ONLINE   dodgytom

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:47 PM

I say if the welding is done properly, No worries. 
You need to look into future-proofing the area to prevent rust, Retrofit wheel well liner of a later car and cavity wax the shit out of it?


No, I don't want any traps. It will be painted with Jotun silver paint, then sprayed with a mixture of Waxoyl, diesel and old engine oil. It will be jetwashed underneath and oiled again yearly.

It has been a faithful family friend. It cosy £1000 15 years ago and has never given any bother. Seems daft to throw it away,although 'half a day' was probably an underestimate..

Been so hot today, I keep coming in for drinks and to mess about on the web....
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Why would I give my valuable time to people I would much rather kick in the eye?


#65 OFFLINE   captain_70s

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:49 PM

Oh i agree on that, She is in our Focus, It's just the Dolomite i struggle with as i haven't got the length on the belt to get it rear facing very easily. 

Pro tip, don't strap you kids in to a Dolomite.

 

No side crash protection at all, the arse end has no structural substance to it due being a lengthened Toledo (fuel tank is your crumple zone), and they rot in weird places from the inside out (by the time rust gets to the outer sill the inners are usually already gone). If a welded up 90s Pug worries you on the basis of child safety I'm surprised you'd put in them in even the mintiest of 70s motors! In my hands that 306 wouldn't be going anywhere until it was welded up, but once fixed it's probably not going to be much less safer than any other 20 year old car compared to a new one...

 

Most early 2000s cars are probably going the same way underneath nice plastic sill covers and trims, etc. Quite worrying as there is no access for an MOT tester to get a good look without removing parts which they aren't allowed to do. Hell, in all the years I've owned it my Dolly 1300's driver's seatbelt has never locked and I think I'm the only person who has ever noticed...


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#66 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:50 PM

You should see what kinds of cars my parents drove their kids around in - and I suspect the same applies to many others !

 

You can't compare that. They had no alternative. Had there been, they might have opted for something safer.

The knowledge certainly was there, my dad always ordered the optional front seat belts once they became available.

He knew that even the strongest man can't brace himself with his arms in a crash exceeding 5mph.

The fatality rate per driven mile was way higher than it was even 20 - 30 years ago, let alone today.

Safety technology has come a long way since it started in the 1950, but to generally declare an old car being a

death trap is blowing things way out of proportion.

 

Also, there is nothing wrong with welding up the rust damage in that 306 if it's done by someone who can actually weld.

You'd be surprised how little steel you need to make something that way outlasts a human body, which itself is

surprisingly tough up to a certain age. That's why the children often survive crashes their parents perish in.


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1967 Renault 16 TL............................................now with floor and MoT

1971 Mercedes 280SE............................................................fucked

1979 Mobylette AV89............................................................running
1997 Peugeot 405 2.0 Executive Estate.................now with aircon and brakes


#67 OFFLINE   rantingYoof

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:58 PM

MrsYoof used to be taken hundreds of miles away with her family on holiday in a Fiat Uno and later a Suzuki Swift - five-up including a week's worth of luggage.

 

 

 

I AM HAND-WRINGING RETROSPECTIVELY

 

 

Ninja edit - this wasn't altogether sarcastic; I genuinely cringed when MrsYoof described her early family holidays in her dad's older vehicles. I'd scrap the 306 personally (as it also made me hand-wring) but am open-minded to the idea of someone having the skills to fix it.


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Cure for insomnia #57812: rantingYoof's Historic Car Fleet Information History...Thing

 

Proud to be the 'first' owner of Mason, the 1995 LS400 Mk4.

 

An established Autoshite bike residing cosily in the west Welsh countryside.


#68 OFFLINE   Bobthebeard

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:01 PM

Surely if a car bodyshell is repaired by proper methods and by a competent welder that is ok? After all most of us are happy to work on the brakes of our older chod.
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Nervously prodding at rust since 1978

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#69 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:02 PM

Look at the inner structure, if rotten cut away, shape patch and seem weld back up then cut out and seem weld a patch in there. I would hope there would be some extra plating as standard to reinforce the mount area?
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#70 OFFLINE   Slartibartfast

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:07 PM

"Look what I was driven around in as a child and I'm OK" is survivorship bias and it's a concept so old that Diogenes has a quote about it:

 

Diogenes was asked concerning paintings of those who had escaped shipwreck: "Look, you who think the gods have no care of human things, what do you say to so many persons preserved from death by their especial favour?", to which Diogenes replied: "Why, I say that their pictures are not here who were cast away, who are by much the greater number."

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#71 OFFLINE   Bobthebeard

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:14 PM

"Look what I was driven around in as a child and I'm OK" is survivorship bias and it's a concept so old that Diogenes has a quote about it:

Yes... Am reminded of my grandad slightly.

Lovely bloke that brought me up. Many happy memories.
He also used to say stuff like.
"Bacon dripping? Eaten it for years and it's not done me any harm"
First heart attack aged 59.
Gave up the dripping on toast/lard/ etc and carried on to his late eighties.
Not sure that has anything to do with anything mind.
Nervously prodding at rust since 1978

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#72 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:36 PM

"Look what I was driven around in as a child and I'm OK" is survivorship bias and it's a concept so old that Diogenes has a quote about it:

 

 

Life is life endangering throughout and guaranteed lethal.

Hence survivorship bias is a fundamental part of life by its very nature.


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1967 Renault 16 TL............................................now with floor and MoT

1971 Mercedes 280SE............................................................fucked

1979 Mobylette AV89............................................................running
1997 Peugeot 405 2.0 Executive Estate.................now with aircon and brakes


#73 OFFLINE   alcyonecorporation

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:40 PM

OLD CARS 


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What we need is more poo brown cars.


Lukas, shaking his head


#74 OFFLINE   Slartibartfast

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:54 PM

Life is life endangering throughout and guaranteed lethal.

Hence survivorship bias is a fundamental part of life by its very nature.

 

I'm put in mind of the Hindu mentality of praying at a roadside shrine before a long journey and then driving like a lunatic because their fate is in the hands of the gods now.


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#75 OFFLINE   castros_bro

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:54 PM

You are an adult so are responsible for your own decisions. Carry on.


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#76 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:57 PM

You are an adult so are responsible for your own decisions. Carry on.


Since when am I responsible for my actions?


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1971 Mercedes 280SE............................................................fucked

1979 Mobylette AV89............................................................running
1997 Peugeot 405 2.0 Executive Estate.................now with aircon and brakes


#77 OFFLINE   Lankytim

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:05 PM

I'd scrap it, but it's by no means dangerous to do a proper repair in that area. I honestly can't see what the fuss is about.

Old bangers are so cheap nowadays, is it worth your time and effort to get it ship shape again?

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#78 OFFLINE   castros_bro

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:11 PM

Since when am I responsible for my actions?

 

If not your actions then you may take responsibility for1983 and me being arrested and fined in Bregenz for borrowing the "H"  toilet door from a bar during an evening then losing said door in the hauptbahnhof  carpark. 


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#79 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

If I were responsible for 1983, I'd bring it back!

Everything was better in 1983.


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1967 Renault 16 TL............................................now with floor and MoT

1971 Mercedes 280SE............................................................fucked

1979 Mobylette AV89............................................................running
1997 Peugeot 405 2.0 Executive Estate.................now with aircon and brakes


#80 OFFLINE   Bobthebeard

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:17 PM

If I were responsible for 1983, I'd bring it back!
Everything was better in 1983.


No it wasn't! I got married to Mrs Beard1 in 1982. 1983 was awful.
Met the now Mrs Beard in 1985. 1985 was better.
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Nervously prodding at rust since 1978

1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 3.1 V6 (Almost* restored)
2002 MG ZT 2.5 KV6. (AKA Warrior, having survived a few battles)
2002 Saab 9-5 2.3t Auto estate. (Daily driver)
2001 Rover 75 2.5 KV6 Connoisseur
2001 Saab 9-3 2.0t Auto Convertible. (AKA Elmo)
2000 Rover 75 1.8 Auto. (AKA Mr Turner, homage to previous owner)

#81 OFFLINE   Slartibartfast

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:19 PM

I'd scrap it, but it's by no means dangerous to do a proper repair in that area. I honestly can't see what the fuss is about.

Old bangers are so cheap nowadays, is it worth your time and effort to get it ship shape again?

Well this old banger is a known quantity. I'm guessing he's examined it thoroughly, knows all of its quirks and has probably done a decent amount of work to keep it running. A new old banger is going to have a whole number of problems that will almost certainly take longer (and cost more) to sort than a couple of days spent welding that panel.
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#82 OFFLINE   Bobthebeard

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:24 PM

Well this old banger is a known quantity. I'm guessing he's examined it thoroughly, knows all of its quirks and has probably done a decent amount of work to keep it running. A new old banger is going to have a whole number of problems that will almost certainly take longer (and cost more) to sort than a couple of days spent welding that panel.


Indeed. Also the replacement old banger may be just as bad (or worse) safety wise.
The OP seems to know what he is doing.
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Nervously prodding at rust since 1978

1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 3.1 V6 (Almost* restored)
2002 MG ZT 2.5 KV6. (AKA Warrior, having survived a few battles)
2002 Saab 9-5 2.3t Auto estate. (Daily driver)
2001 Rover 75 2.5 KV6 Connoisseur
2001 Saab 9-3 2.0t Auto Convertible. (AKA Elmo)
2000 Rover 75 1.8 Auto. (AKA Mr Turner, homage to previous owner)

#83 OFFLINE   Hendry

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:25 PM

Id have no qualms about welding that up, as long as the rest of the car isnt corroded like that. I would probably get a new panel or cut a good one out of a scrapper, and then fit the missing arch liner so it doesnt happen again.

 

Im genuinely shocked that the lack of arch liner could cause that, especially so far up, and without rot lower doing not being this bad and really obvious.

 

It does show the MOT is a load of bollocks, just means a car meets the ticklist of items that VOSA or DVSA or whatever theyre called now have decided means a car is safe. OK its not the testers fault they dont check for these things but it just proves what a lot of crap it is, ive driven proper shitboxes that drive like crap with a clean no advisory MOT and always thought it was bollocks, even more so now ive seen this, it really needs to be changed in some way to check safety related items that arent visible or form part of the current checks. 


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#84 OFFLINE   Bobthebeard

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:28 PM

^^^
Fail to see how that would be even possible without a major strip down of the car.
Imagine the public outcry, not to mention the cost, if that were to happen!
The condition of your car is your responsibility..
  • alf892 and DodgeRover like this
Nervously prodding at rust since 1978

1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 3.1 V6 (Almost* restored)
2002 MG ZT 2.5 KV6. (AKA Warrior, having survived a few battles)
2002 Saab 9-5 2.3t Auto estate. (Daily driver)
2001 Rover 75 2.5 KV6 Connoisseur
2001 Saab 9-3 2.0t Auto Convertible. (AKA Elmo)
2000 Rover 75 1.8 Auto. (AKA Mr Turner, homage to previous owner)

#85 ONLINE   Sheefag

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:29 PM

If not your actions then you may take responsibility for1983 and me being arrested and fined in Bregenz for borrowing the "H"  toilet door from a bar during an evening then losing said door in the hauptbahnhof  carpark. 

 

Some say that door still quietly roams the City with a gentle murmuring, late at night when the Moon is fat.


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#86 ONLINE   cpjitservices

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:33 PM

CAR SOS do this on far older cars and they are fine.


Buy me a Coffee!

 

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#87 ONLINE   sierraman

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:33 PM

I don't know it's easy to fall into the 'better the devil you know' situation, another car might be worse but arguably it might be a lot better as well.

#88 OFFLINE   bunglebus

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:34 PM

I'm perfectly happy to drive this having cut a large chunk of it out;

 

Quarter008_zps87288d1d.jpg

 

Quarter010_zps60fb7959.jpg

 

Quarter009_zps4cd11e33.jpg


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Plain spotter


#89 OFFLINE   Jazoli

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:44 PM

 

do you not get wet when it rains?


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sigs are shit, wgaf?


#90 OFFLINE   JayW

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:46 PM


It does show the MOT is a load of bollocks, just means a car meets the ticklist of items that VOSA or DVSA or whatever theyre called now have decided means a car is safe. OK its not the testers fault they dont check for these things but it just proves what a lot of crap it is, ive driven proper shitboxes that drive like crap with a clean no advisory MOT and always thought it was bollocks, even more so now ive seen this, it really needs to be changed in some way to check safety related items that arent visible or form part of the current checks.


MOT is a cursory glance at basic items and very much serves it's purpose.

After all, no one can blame ignorance for driving around on bald tyres with no brakes the rest of the year.

I'm firmly with the testers and VOSA, it is entirely impossible to check for issues like this on every type of vehicle. And the rest of the year it's the drivers responsibility.

Seeing cars in car parks with threadbare tyres or broken headlights, or cars crabbing down the road because the front suspension/steering is FUBAR boils my piss. But hey, it's got MOT!

They could spend a whole day taking the car to pieces instead. At £400, every quarter I suppose... And not be liable for anything that breaks... But then we'll all have to scrap all our cars.

Not a dig BTW! :)
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2001 Saab 9-3 Turbo Convertible 185bhp
1996 Jaguar X300 Sovereign 4.0 LWB
1995 Rover 800 Vitesse Turbo 180bhp
2004 Fiat Panda 1.2 170,000 miles!
1999 Transit Mk5 Di Unfinished Camper
1997 Cinquecento Sporting 30k Imola Blue
1997 Freelander L-series




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