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Range Rovers.


Barry Cade

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In Australia the only place you see any LR product is parked outside coffee shops in the cities.   They are beautiful machines but just not reliable enough.   Toyota and Nissan all the way in the Outback.

 

I think Toyota get their marketing all wrong for the Landcruiser range in Europe, selling them as luxury rather than off roaders.   if they offered the 70 series range with the full range of options, the 2.8 diesel and some rust proofing I think they would clean up in the utility and military markets.  

 

That would be the only car I might consider buying new if only orl modernz weren't shit mate.

 

landcruiser-wagon-gxl-vintage-gold-21031

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D3's and early 4s are now starting to wreck their engines by either the oil pump housing cracking, or the main crank bearings spinning in their journals and blocking oil feed to the crank

Both are a fundamental design flaw, neither are being taken seriously by Land Rover

 

I'm not entirely convinced by this.

 

It seems to me that LRs are cracking the oil pump housing but not Peugeots, Citroens or Jags with exactly the same part. Am I wrong?

They also seem to often crack shortly after a timing belt change.

The thing is that one of the timing belt pulleys bolts to the oil pump, and so if you abuse the timing mechanism, or fit the wrong bolt, or use a hammer gun on it...

 

The other thing is that folks are saying that the bearing shells can spin because they aren't tabbed, however the research that I read on it seems to indicate that the shells are held in place by the insane force of the main bearing caps being torqued onto them, not the tabs.  If the crank binds onto a bearing shell hard enough to spin at against that kind of clamping force then it would simply bend the tabs straight.  There are apparently lots of engines without tabs on the bearing shells now, not just the LRJ 2.7.

 

Did the bearing fail because the shell spun and covered the oil feed hole, or did the shell spin because the crank seized onto it and span it?

 

I would like to know this: if the 2.7 in my XJ explodes can I buy a 3.0 and just move over all of the sensors and ancillaries and put that back in?

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Apparently the affected LR engines used a different oil pump to the others,easily identified by a missing reinforcement web on the casting.

It's enough of a worry that owners are having the front of the engine partially stripped just to see which pump is on

As for the shell bearings I guess it's a bit chicken or egg....it always seems to be the flywheel end that goes

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Update on the staff fleet. Range Rover Sport no:2 has had rear brakes all renewed also, same issues as no:1. Handbrake shoe levers and wedges seized solid.Aircon has packed in too. Range Rover Sport no:3 has power loss issues and looks to be down to a borked EGR. P38 suspension has sharted itself and has random electrical total loss. Lad who owns Range Rover Sport no:2 has a 1999 Saab 9-3 denzil as a "backup" car, which cost £295.. It's been faultless.

 

I'm supposed to be a caravan technician but I reckon they need a full time mechanic to look after 4 Range Rovers. It's a full time job!

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Apparently the affected LR engines used a different oil pump to the others,easily identified by a missing reinforcement web on the casting.

It's enough of a worry that owners are having the front of the engine partially stripped just to see which pump is on

As for the shell bearings I guess it's a bit chicken or egg....it always seems to be the flywheel end that goes

 

Indeed.  My XJ got the updated oil pump bought cheap from a Peugeot dealer. It's not so easy on an XJ as I had to drop the sump to change it.  It's odd that no one in the Jag world knows about this as they never seem to break on Jags.

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I want to like them too but the few people I've known with them have had such ruinous experiences with them that I'd not bother, I'd go the Toyota route (as per GordonBennett) if I needed an off-roader or big tow-barge. An early S1/2 LR to play with but otherwise - pass. 

 

A colleague of mind sold his some months ago after spending a lot of time and money sorting it initially (incl an LPG conv), when asked why he'd got shot, he replied there was only so many months on the trot you can pay yet another £600 bill before you say - enough! He now has a Nissan (not Land Cruiser - the smaller one). 

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Guest Hooli

Does anyone really use a Jaag?

 

Mine was my daily when I had it, they behave a lot better in regular use.

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I'm still loving mine, 4000 miles in and I've only replaced the top hose and gearbox thermostat it clips to, to stop a slight coolant drip.

 

On Saturday it took me and the good lady to Swindon from Cumbria to pick up my new runaround (because as much as I love it I'm not JUST having a high mileage L322...) and back. 500 miles, 15mpg (on LPG) and naturally it didn't break a sweat, and neither did I!

 

Love it.

 

 

post-577-0-59151200-1496173268_thumb.jpg

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Guest Lord Sward

A mate of mine who had both the turbos fail on his.  The resultant work (which naturally spiralled into more) was over £5k at a specialist. 

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Always avoided LR products over the years, fancied one every so often, but never came about - still would for myself, but recently bought daughter a Lexus RX300, 2001 reg - so well built it's untrue - read a couple of reviews saying they are as good as, if not better than a Rangie - never even driven one, so can't comment, but would like to hear others' experiences :)

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I also fancied a rangey but reading the interweb and believing the pub gossip out me off, I must admit there's some horrendous stories out there about them and as expected some huge bills.

 

Having said all that I own a Mercedes ml w163/4 shape my 2000 and I'd you read the horror stories on that their the worst car Mercedes ever produced but only 2 self inflicted FTP's in nearly ten years tells me different.

 

Can't say it's really been serviced that will either but despite looking for alternatives I just keep coming back to it and thinking I'd be better off keeping on top of it and just using it.

 

They are also exceptionally good off road (again despite what the internet tells you).

Google ml Vs X5 of road and the videos are comical.

 

I had a couple of lifts in a 205k X5 last week and must admit it was a really nice place to be, engine sounds sweet on chat (6cyl derv) and it seemed to do everything really nicely.

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Guest Lord Sward

We went to the UK's largest and oldest Mitsubishi dealer on Monday. They reckon Discovery owners are their best advert.  They had 9 or 10 LWB Shoguns on site, including a 10+ year old example on sale, adjacent to the showroom entrance.  

 

They explained that while Mitsubishi won't allow them to sell it 'Approved Used' they will stand by it on their own warranty as they are confident it won't fail.  Could you imagine Land Rover (or Mercedes or BMW or JEEP for that matter) retailing and standing by a 07 Disco (or ML or X5 or Grand Cherokee)?

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We went to the UK's largest and oldest Mitsubishi dealer on Monday. They reckon Discovery owners are their best advert. They had 9 or 10 LWB Shoguns on site, including a 10+ year old example on sale, adjacent to the showroom entrance.

 

They explained that while Mitsubishi won't allow them to sell it 'Approved Used' they will stand by it on their own warranty as they are confident it won't fail. Could you imagine Land Rover (or Mercedes or BMW or JEEP for that matter) retailing and standing by a 07 Disco (or ML or X5 or Grand Cherokee)?

Yeah they are good, the design to me doesn't look a lot different to the mk 2 I had back about 12 years ago.

 

I also had a J-Top cabriolet version I gave my Mrs as a birthday present one year, absolutely loved it and it had been seriously tuned up in Japan as it went like absolute shit off a shovel, flying machine, I swear it used to wheelie if you pushed it too hard in first!!!

 

Sold it stupidly in a whimsical moment when a mate made me a really decent offer on it, regretted it the minute I did it and ended up spending the money on utter shite, tried buying it back a year or so later but it had gone.

 

Eventually sold to a drug dealer who drove it through someone who owed him money's house.

 

Nice.

 

Said drug dealer did end up doing about 7 years for it so I suppose it had a fitting end, certainly more excitement than it saw in Japan I'm sure*

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Well I've had 4 mk1 Discos, all diesel and 4 Rangie classics, all v8's with lpg and I still love them. Obviously the older LR stuff doesn't have all the electronic issues the newer stuff has but as was said before you have to constantly maintain them, but when they're working right they are hard to beat.

 

I'm afraid my addiction to the green oval is so bad I'm in the process of selling a perfectly reliable Ford Explorer to buy another Landy.. I've been looking at td5's today but I'm still tempted to try and find a not too rusty 300tdi and make it my forever Landy. Although I have been tempted by a p38 just because I've never had one and I think they are one of the best looking Rangies made.

 

and btw, fire doesn't always kill a LR,my first was a S3 88" petrol which one day driving, after a year or so of ownership, smoke and flames started coming from the top of the dash, I quickly pulled over yanked the dashboard off, poured a bottle of lucozade on the flames and once it was safe I just started it up and drove home. Turns out the previous owner must have had a radio or cb in it and had just tucked the live wire behind the dash without taping it up or anything. Genius!

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The Thinking Man's Discovery?

Always avoided LR products over the years, fancied one every so often, but never came about - still would for myself, but recently bought daughter a Lexus RX300, 2001 reg - so well built it's untrue - read a couple of reviews saying they are as good as, if not better than a Rangie - never even driven one, so can't comment, but would like to hear others' experiences :)

There's a reason that ostensibly sane people buy Range Rovers and Discoverys, even though they know the reputation. Be it a £150k LWB Vogue or a £500 Ramshackle Disco, nobody buys one expecting it to be reliable, if it is ,it's a bonus and for every internet story about fucked oil pumps or whatever there's 100s just getting on with the job of being a useful vehicle.

To answer your question, they really do drive better than any of the alternatives.

 

There's something about the way a coil or air sprung Land Rover just sort of flows over rough ground, it's as if it's picking it's way through without any effort. Yes a Landcruiser, some Jeeps , G wagens ,Shoguns and possibly Patrols will get you to the same places , none are so effortless and civilised.

On the road Cayennes, X5s, M/GLs, RXs all handle better and would beat a similarly powered RR/Disco round the Nurburgring.

I've driven most of the usual suspects in my work and to generalise massively, the Japanese stuff feels ,well, Japanese- I'm sure the Lexus LX570( posh Amazon) I drove in the desert had Aygo column stalks for instance.

This means they'll keep working forever but don't feel special.

It's this special feeling that keeps Solihul in business, the only things that make you feel more superior come from Crewe and Goodwood. Which brings me to the Bentayga, the press are rating it above the Range Rover, so maybe the mystique will fade , but they're so ugly and expensive(a customer is looking at a £167,000 SECONDHAND one on Friday) that it'll be a while till us mortals will need to worry about them.

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