Range Rovers.

[Barry Cade]

In my new job, people tow caravans. Most of the caravan owners have Kia's and Hyundai 4x4's, but the owner of the biz, and the young lad both have Range Rover sports, and there is a P38 4l that does shunting duties. Now they have a mechanic on staff I've been tasked with sorting out all the vehicular issues. I've already serviced the John Deere tractor, repaired an old Mountfield mower and got a Yugoslavian Massey Ferguson running after a long sleep. Today I was asked to look at the boss man's RR sport, as the electric handbrake was making some horrible noises, as does young lads.

 

Bosses one is very clean,2.7 diesel bought with FLRSH.  HAH!

 

Spent the best part of an hour chiselling off the stupid chrome caps on the wheelnuts ...WHY DO THEY DO THIS? Put the car into MOUNT mode, and removed EPB fuse.  Stripeed off both partially seized rear calipers, then smashed off the discs as the star wheel adjusters were seized. Brake shoe fit kit was rotten,drums full of dust. Got shoes off and both the handbrake arm and wedge adjusters were seized solid. Cleaned everything up and wrestled on the new shoes,popped on new discs and followed the proceedure to set running clearance and set up the self adjusters . Whilst underneath I noted rusty brake pipes, many exposed wiring plugs,rusty chassis,seized spare wheel mechanism and a few other things. Put the wheels back on with the now horrible looking rusty wheel nuts, removed it from Mount Mode, and put it in to Bed In Mode, then took it out on the road to run between 19 and 29 MPH and pull up the EPB switch to come to a complete halt 10 times.

 

Fuck me ,what a faff, and what a dissapointment to see so many things that put me right off them, because they are bloody lovely to drive. I love driving them, I love the idea of them but the reality is just shit and hassle. I've got it all to do again on Monday..

 

The P38 is just a nightmare- it's triggers brush and still has a long list of repairs that need done. Wouldn't. I know so many people who swear by LR's products, but when you start asking,the money they've spent is eyewatering.

 

What's the Massiv's take on these things? worth it?

[AMC Rebel]

My Disco 3 (which is exactly the same car under the skin) has had similar woes with rusty brake pipes and the electronic parking brake.  I've also had a new suspension compressor and I suspect the front diff is dicky.  They are such a nice place to sit in and drive though.  No sane person buys 'em for their mechanical robustness or reliability - Toyota every time for that. 

[warninglight]

I loved my last of the line Disco 2, but I sold it as it was starting to show its age and I was bored of it.

 

The obvious next step would be a Disco 3, but I've heard nothing but scare stories about them. I realise that I heard doom and gloom about a TD5 Disco but with a bit of reading up and preventative stuff, I brought it from 120k to 170k in 2 years with no major or expensive issues.

 

Obviously the D3 takes a bit more looking after! In the end I decided that I'd avoid two turbos, two EGR valves, lots of modern high pressure diesel bits, snapped cranks that I hear those 2.7s are good at, EPBs etc. by getting an early L322 Rangie instead. Unlike the Sport they have nothing to do with the Disco, and contain many many 90s BMW parts. Mine has the M62 4.4 BMW V8 with an LPG conversion which I've managed to eke 19mpg out of on motorway runs. I've only had this for a couple of months and 4000 miles, but it's done a bit of towing, it's been from Cumbria to London and back and TOUCH WOOD hasn't done anything stupid yet.

 

It still tows like a champion, but wants to be a gear lower than a diesel one to really get moving. But the difference is that it really does get moving even with a trailer on.

 

I doubt it would struggle with most caravans!

 

 

I like the look of the Sport, but half the charm of a Range Rover is the gin palace interior, which the RRS lacks, and if I was going to have the hassles of a Disco 3, I'd want the load space and 7 seats of the Disco 3...

[scruff]

Flipping smashing things to drive on and off tarmac. As long as they belong to someone else 

[Stevebrookman]

Had my P38 4.6HSE for nearly 11 years. Been very lucky with it. Put new air springs on it a few years ago as the old ones were getting on. Replaced the exhaust a few times , brake pads and oil. Had to change the boot struts last week and whilst doing that one of the tailgate supports snapped so replaced that yesterday. Battery is 12 years old-have the receipt. I change the oil regularly and that's about it. Was going to buy a newer shape Supercharged one a few years ago-but would rather spend my money on shite.

Good thing about the P38 is that parts are plentiful and cheap. 

 

Steve

[andy18s]

D3's and early 4s are now starting to wreck their engines by either the oil pump housing cracking, or the main crank bearings spinning in their journals and blocking oil feed to the crank

Both are a fundamental design flaw, neither are being taken seriously by Land Rover

[Cavcraft]

I really do want to like LandRovers and RangeRovers, but they're rubbish.

[HMC]

I looked at buying an L322 earlier in the year- say around a 5k budget. I seem to remember reading something about the auto boxes imploding and talk of ££££ which, for my end of the Range Rover market made me chicken out and get a steady merc w211 estate for family duties instead, and I'm not easily put off when I get the want for a particular car....

[Longblackcoat]

I've had two Disco 3s, and was either incredibly lucky or perhaps some of the internet OMGDETH stories are overblown. Given that my last one was on 160k miles when I sold it, it had enough time to show up faults. No problem with brake pipes, suspension compressor, or engine. Did kill a turbo and a torque converter though, but at that sort of mileage and age that's sort of par for the course.

 

I changed it because it was really a bit too slow; the successor has an extra turbo and 50% more engine capacity. But it was an astonishingly capable car, and I'd have another if only it was a bit quicker.

[Arthur Foxhake]

I ♥ my Pajero.

Even if people STILL tell me it means wanker in Spanish and accuse me of being a pikey.

I couldn't own a Range Rover.

Unless a classic V8. But I couldn't afford one of them.

[andy18s]

Want to make a few quid?

Find a Jag or Pug with the v6 engine in

Something cosmetically challenged but running ok, 'cos it's had a nice easy life pulling a car around and not a nigh on 3 ton house

Then pop it up for sale on the various LR pages as they've cottoned onto the fact a full car is cheaper than a "recon" engine

[Longblackcoat]

Want to make a few quid?

Find a Jag or Pug with the v6 engine in

Something cosmetically challenged but running ok, 'cos it's had a nice easy life pulling a car around and not a nigh on 3 ton house

Then pop it up for sale on the various LR pages as they've cottoned onto the fact a full car is cheaper than a "recon" engine

 

Twin turbo in the Jag, single in the LR. Not an entirely straightforward swap, I'm guessing?

[andy18s]

Engine block and internals are the same

There's a number of lads who have done a full engine swap including doing the belts,new pump ect within a weekend

It's possible to pull the engine out the old fashioned way ie over the front panel

Not much room though

[D Spares & Tyres]

I ♥ my Pajero.

Even if people STILL tell me it means wanker in Spanish and accuse me of being a pikey.

I couldn't own a Range Rover.

Unless a classic V8. But I couldn't afford one of them.

+1 on that, I love my shogun.

 

No contest between a Shogun and a Disco, I'm amazed people actually buy the things

[DodgeRover]

I've had my 2 door classic since the mid 90s, has been off the road since 2005 when I stopped getting cheap diesel for the Perkins 6247 that's been fitted.

[0ldCh0d]

I am not really into Range Rovers/Range Rover Sports & reading this, it reminds me of something I saw just a couple of months back.

 

A nice looking (I admit they look nice), private reg, silver Range Rover Sport that had shat it's transmission right outside my parents house.

The guy was trying to get this thing to select gear & move, but all it did was make this horrible metallic grinding noise every time he tried. It did not sound clever at all.

 

Cue the flatbed recovery truck 2 hours later to take it away. 

[Timewaster]

Yet another of those cars I want to have, but not to own.

 

See also Jags, Alfas, Maseratis, Bentleys, V8s of all description etc.etc

 

Basically I'm a coward.

[Rusty_Rocket]

Everyone with even a little interest in these cars should own one once. How long you keep the relationship going depends entirely on how deep your pockets are and much patience youu have  

[Timewaster]

How long you keep the relationship going depends entirely on how deep your pockets are and much patience you have

 

Shallow and very very little. I'd give it a month.

 

I forgot to ad Big Citroens to my scared to own list too.

[Guest Lord Sward]

Can I pull this thread slightly off topic? Thanks. I'm going to ramble here because I'm in a real quandary.

 

I own a 04 TD5 Disco. I've had it since 20k miles and its now showing 137k.  This car has wanted for nothing maintenance-wise.  Its repaid me well, but its started letting me down. And costing serious coin to keep afloat. But I cannot begrudge it.

 

I tow a caravan.  We've just bought a bigger, brand new one and we're off to the south of France with it shortly.

 

My missus is now urging me to replace it ASAP. Or, and this is a killer, ensure it never breaks down again.

 

So, how how do I do that?

 

Secondly, it looks like we're going to replace it with a new Shogun.  Now we've test drive this car and it looked 'pikey' and was shockingly unrefined.  More TDi than TD5, but its bomb-proof and honest and crucially, affordable.

 

All advice gratefully received.

 

(I should point out I'm a Land Rover man through and through, but I can't be on with the new ones complexity) 

[Barry Cade]

Afraid all new cars are complex to a greater or lesser degree, by regulation. Land Rover's tend to go wrong, then keep going wrong IME, you could spend spend spend then chassis rot will start to be an issue, and if you are Europe bound, older Diesels may start having more issues with cities.

 

I do like a Shogun, but to expect a car NEVER to break down.. even the Japs can't quite manage those guarantees, but I'd say go Mitsubushi..

[DodgeRover]

Africa or Australia spec Land Cruiser?

Sister has a Paris Dakar special Nissan Navara to tow her horse box but it's a crude thing.

Cummins 6bt powered yank

Holden Suburban with LPG?

[Barry Cade]

Lol, you said Navara, when he's under orders to have a reliable car. Wheather it'll throw a rod or snap in half first is the question.

[DodgeRover]

I did think about the chassis snapping reputation oddly this looks pretty robust, was it confined to certain ones or do they all do it given time and metal fatigue?

[Guest Lord Sward]

I've never experience a chassis snapping at the Nissan dealer I worked at, but other dealers had. 

 

But no trucks, despite a fondness for the Hi-Lux.

[warninglight]

As it sounds like you really like the Disco TD5 - could it be an option to do a bit of restoration work on it? TD5 issues are well known and fixable, gearboxes too. Axles are tough, electrical issues can all be diagnosed and possibly sorted if you keep a nanocom in the glovebox.

 

The only time my TD5 left me sitting was when I fitted some genuine LR 'Winter' wiper blades and in torrential rain the following day on the M6 found they hit the A pillar trims. Cue stripped wiper arm splines in the dark on the M6. Everything else it managed to get home.

[Guest Lord Sward]

I dont understand why Land Cruisers are so expensive?  Separate chassis, but a 4-pot diesel.  

 

They're basic to start with, equipment wise, but then massively jump in complexity.  No in-between and £50k new.

[Guest Lord Sward]

The fuel pump went on the Friday night of the bank holiday weekend towing the caravan on the A1.  Cue an AA lift home.  So you can imagine the scene on my road, big recovery truck and flashing lights. Then police helpfully stop to assist with traffic management.  More flashing lights.  The neighbours think this is most amusing and the second time its happened.  You can imagine the piss being ripped from me tonight as I hooked-up.

 

Interestingly, I've never changed either the Disco's front brake pads or discs.

[Barry Cade]

Brakes don't wear on the back of a breakdown truck! 

 

Navara's are odd, some seem really bad, some fine but the reputation has stuck- shame too as they are a nice truck.

 

Have you got a GOOD Land Rover specialist locally? May be worth leaving it there for a couple of hours and tell him to be brutal,then make a decision.

 

I've been getting a lot of good feedback about the new SSangyongs from Caravanners, some with the new 8ft wide Elddis's, Seem to be popular up here.

[warninglight]

A friend of mine is on the third or fourth fuel pump in his TD5 Defender, and it doesn't have huge miles on it. It seems that some pumps last forever and some die very quickly. I think the first time he changed it he bought genuine and it didn't last very long at all, so he bought two new aftermarket ones, one to fit, and one to keep as a spare in the boot, for less than the cost of a genuine one.

 

I'm not sure how difficult it is to replace the pump in the Disco, I'm sure they have an access hatch in the boot floor though? When I worked for VW and the 3C Passats had a recall for their pumps, I used to have the old one out and binned, the new one in and tested, and the seat back in within 5 minutes.

 

The best repair for a TD5 fuel pump is to fit a V8, with a gas conversion.