Keymaster's Road To Nowhere: DANGER! Contains Talbot Motorhome Misery

[omegod]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4217679,-2.8252835,3a,29y,118.67h,83.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssxRrCddMa-9aqXkZVa4ulw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

This is still sitting on a drive in Huyton.

Been there at least 5 years.

 

I pass that on a near daily basis, Picasso parked next to it is in an equally fucked condition, no idea what the score is but sure many have knocked by now

[DeeJay]

I'll give them a knock when I grow a pair.

[Keymaster]

Because of British Inclement Weather, come November motorhomers have to do some winterisation. Normally this involves nothing more than draining down the water systems to stop it from freezing up and bursting a pipe, and moving cushions away from the walls & leaving cupboard doors open so that air can circulate to avoid damp spots. Some more enthusiastic* owners might do other things like coat it in stuff to keep it from going green or putting a cover over it. But for me, draining the  water & shuffling some cushions is enough.

 

Last winter shuffling cushions didnt help avoid damp spots. No. It revealed them. Arse. There were small patches of damp in the front corners of the overcab bed. Further investigation revealed an initial candidate as the source of the problem... 

 

 

This particular van has many aluminium extruded rails, they are fitted to hide joins in the panelling & over time the mastic fails & lets water pass into the van. 

 

 

The temptation to bodge was high, but further digging revealed a previous owner had already deployed bodges involving builders foam & bathroom sealant & the use of these products had trapped the moisture & accelerated the problem. After removing the wall panelling I removed a lot of what was once a wooden frame

 

 

[Keymaster]

There wasnt much frame left in the front right corner...

 

 

 

 

Thankfully, the front left, while showing signs of ingress was only just beginning to let water in & the frame was still intact, just some external resealing to be done on that side. 

 

Winter in full swing, it was cold & the days very short. So the exterior rails got duck taped & I went back in the house to sulk

[The Moog]

This is going to end up a triggers broom - and I don't mean the man with the sausage problem

[chodweaver]

Likes are for the stones you showed in tackling this, not that your van has been quietly rotting away.

 

I think your master stroke here though was in leaving enough of the structure in place while you replaced the properly fubared bits. My garage/life is full of things I took apart to the extent I couldn't remember what shape they were, and in bits they remain. One of the mantras in car restoration books is to make the repair panel or at least take measurements and lots of pics FIRST before cutting anything off or out. Because behind that panel you removed first... is another panel that will probably need cutting out and replacing too. And they will probably need to match up/meet in places on rebuilding if a rivet/weld is to give any sort of structural strength: I recall a kit car mag's critique of one of the many lambo replica kits that could be bought in the 80s - there was some concern that the GRP tub was around 4" away on both sides from the outer edge of the Beetle floorpan that it was supposed to be fixed to - such was the desire to make a car based on a VW that was the same width as the genuine article.

/ramble

 

Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

[Keymaster]

I chased back the rotten framework until I hit good wood... Chodweaver thinks this was a master stroke of planning, but it was more good fortune than anything else. Thankfully although the rot where present was severe, it remained localised & hadnt encroached on complicated bits like window apetures. 

 

After a good sulk, I went to Wickes & came back with my prize of treated timber, optimism & a snickers, ready to set about making a new frame. I started from the bottom & worked my way up.

 

 

I decided the best way to connect the old wood to the new wood was with more wood, glue & screws...

 

 

And a bit of meccano

 

 

Lets put in some polystyrene insulation to finish... There, good* as new!

 

 

But wait, this bit wasnt actually insulated by the coachbuilder so now that it is, this van is officially better* than new!

 

 

Time to attend to the outside...

[spartacus]

Looks like good work that, I'm looking forward to the next installment.

[Keymaster]

I scaled my rickety ladder and set about removing, cleaning up and refitting the outer rails...

 

 

 

I found when I got up there that someone had at some point put a skim* of filler along the front edge. No idea why, as it was fine underneath. I whipped out the mallet to ensure the alu skin met the profile of the new internal frame.

 

The rails and mating surfaces were cleaned with white spirit, degreased with meths and then fresh mastic strip applied to the back of the rails.

Then rails, screwed down, screws sealed with sika, herzim strips wrestled back into their channels and finished with a bead of sika 512 along the edges. I also ran a bead of tigerseal along the rails on the front panel.

 

 

[Keymaster]

After a week or so of rain tests I was satisfied that no more water ingress was occurring and set about finishing the inside.

 

First, new lining was needed. I just used wickes 3mm ply, nothing special. Caravan board is crazy expensive for what it is, so I decided to go with wheat (beige) veltrim to finish... applied with reassuringly dangerous adhesive.

 

 

Ply on front lower panel:

 

 

This was a pain to get right due to the angle, but got there in the end:

 

 

Veltrim is very forgiving stuff to work with, it stretches and shapes if you need it to, but is thick enough to hide a multitude of sins such as panel gaps in the ply liner.

 

 

 

 

 

Window trims and curtain rails back on... job jobbed!

 

[Keymaster]

Or at least I thought it was "job jobbed" it seems that while I was busy trying to sort out the front end, the back had decided to join the party...

 

 

Bumhats

 

[Keymaster]

 

Worse still, upon close inspection I noticed that the floor under the rear seat appeared to be false. Much terror felt at the prospect of what lurked beneath...

 

But first I had to figure out the source of the problem. Again, it was failed previous owner bodges - builders foam and bathroom sealant doing their worst underneath side rails.

 

 

Same approach as the front repairs but quicker thanks to experience and easier thanks to no rickety ladder, it was soon cleaned up and resealed.

 

 

The rear nearside corner rail was damaged at some point and pushed away from the body where the bumper meets it. I peeled it back & found water had also been getting in here. And for some time, as like the front, where there was once wood there was now black mush.

 

 

I removed the mush, taped up the gap and ordered a length of rail.

[Keymaster]

Once the rail turned up I set about fixing the frame. I was able to inspect the damage from the outside in, and had some luck here, as I found that only the corner post had gone and only to a relatively low height. Uhe rest of the frame was ok meaning I could repair without stripping the internal walls.

 

Old rail cut off, to just above the point where the rot ended. New post in, screwed into the side and rear framework batons and then the alu skin screwed down into the fresh wood. You can see a small crease in the blue strip, this is where the old corner rail was damaged.

 

 

Then I cut the new rail to size, cleaned and prepped the rail and mating surface, fitted and sealed.

 

 

 

 

Visibly the floor* was dry and using a damp tester shows the wall drying out nicely inside too (a week earlier the reading was 44%)

 

 

Time to think about the fake floor...

[Keymaster]

Floor options were:

 

1. Ignore, because its back corner and only used for light storage anyway

 

2. Remove, inspect & then rebodge because its back corner and only used for light storage anyway

 

3. Remove, inspect & then replace any damage properly.

 

Ignoring was not an option for me. Once I know, I know. It needed investigation. Yesterday morning:

 

 

See that under the fake floor? Its polystyrene. Under the polystyrene was a black membrane. The ply sheets sandwiching the polystyrene and hidden by the fake floor and membrane had gone. Option 2 off the cards. Ill have to do it properly.

[Keymaster]

Stripped it back until it was consistently solid strong wood and ended up with this:

 

 

 

 

Again, I touched lucky in that the rot stayed only within the seat box area. This meant no major surgery and no significant load bearing work needed & the reassuring thought that anything I do would provide a stronger floor than I found.

 

Measured the gap, inspected the framework, went to wickes

[Keymaster]

They didnt have any 5mm marine ply, so I bought some normal stuff and treated it.

 

 

While that was drying, I tackled some framework repairs. You will see from the pics on my last post that for the most part the floor is supported by a metal frame at the back of the van, but at the side it is supported on a 25 x 38mm wooden frame. The original was weak and had partially collapsed so I built a new one using treated timber.

 

 

After some thought I decided it would also benefit from some timber batons on the sides of the hole for extra support. I bolted them into the metal beam using existing holes (that had previously supported some safe* lap belts) and screwed into the good floor at the other end.

 

 

Time to fit the base layer of ply, and some more treated batons for strength...

 

 

That was where I got up to yesterday evening. Not bad eh?

[Keymaster]

Today I got up and cracked on with finishing the job...

 

Insulation in:

 

Top layer in and sealed:

 

44mm hole drilled & sealed for fresh water pipe:

 

Wallboards veltrimmed:

 

Seat support fitted:

 

FINALLY! Job jobbed!

 

The last 6 or 7 months dealing with the rot has been a proper education, but as you can see the more I did, the quicker and easier each job has become. I wouldn't go so far as to say I am looking forward to the next job that crops up, but certainly wont be scared of ripping wallboards off to sort it out!

 

 

Next up there is a porous rocker box to swap out for this freshly painted one, a trip to the MOT man & then Silverstone beckons in July.

[Keymaster]

MOT was this week.

 

Quick check of lights, horn, handbrake, seatbelts and off I went.

 

I took it to a new test centre as the one I used previously closed down last year. Always a worry going to a new garage, but the new place only does tests, no repairs, so I was confident that the result would be honest.

 

It failed.

 

Both headlights insecure, which I knew about but past testers let it pass so I thought (hoped) would be ok. On inspection back at home, I found the Talbots bodywork fixing points were plastic, had become brittle and snapped off leaving the rods running from the light unit to the body loose. I drilled out the broken fittings to allow use of a M6 threaded rod and a few strategically positioned bolts to hold the light units tightly in place. No doubt they will need aligning but overall an easy fix.

 

It developed an earth fault somewhere between my house and the garage, resulting in the n/s headlight not working properly on dipped and main beams. Fixed this in 15 mins with some electrical contact cleaner, sandpaper and a couple of replacement female spade connectors.

 

Rear brakes recording no effort - suspected seized load valve. A fail that is common on these and not a big surprise to me after the van was standing for so long. A new valve is £20 so not bothering to try and coax the old (3 years!) one back to life & its due a brake fluid change anyway.

 

Emissions slightly over by 0.02% prob due to 10 month old fuel. Small adjustment to the mixture screw should solve that.

 

Verdict: could be worse.

[spartacus]

Good work, it makes for a good read, even if it is a pain for you. You may already know but as well as the load valve seizing up it's also common for the automatic adjusters to fail, giving the same symptoms, it's worth checking them out.

[Spottedlaurel]

An enlightening read. I applaud you for your efforts, but it's been a good reality check on that romantic notion of owning a camper or motorhome.

 

It would appear that a lot of what you've found from the cab backwards is specific to coachbuilt motorhomes and woudn't be as applicable to a converted panel van? I suppose they just suffer rust.....

[Keymaster]

An enlightening read. I applaud you for your efforts, but it's been a good reality check on that romantic notion of owning a camper or motorhome.

 

It would appear that a lot of what you've found from the cab backwards is specific to coachbuilt motorhomes and woudn't be as applicable to a converted panel van? I suppose they just suffer rust.....

 

Thanks. Its been a bit of a slog this year, but we've had it for 5 summers now & for the most part its been fine. Hopefully this thread will give people an idea of what to keep an eye out for if they are in the market for one. Repair materials aren't expensive, its just having the time & inclination to attack the problems when they come up.. or deep pockets to pay someone to sort it. 

 

Correct, the cause of the water ingress & the resulting damp issues are directly related to the construction methods used by the coachbuilder. I dont have first hand experience but I believe that the Talisman coachbuilt campers do not suffer in the same way, but as a result they are priced at a premium.

 

With panel van conversions there is less scope for them to spring leaks, but the seals around rooflights & windows can fail, and where applicable the bonding of fibreglass high roofs can fail too. There will likely be hidden rot lower down behind wall boards, fixtures & fittings caused by condensation getting trapped in the insulation & cavities, and there are also likely to be rotten floors due to leaking showers, sinks etc. I think Tickman has had some fun* welding up his van conversion roof recently. www.customcampersuk.co.uk has many examples of how much hidden rot there can be on these.   

[spartacus]

The Talisman owes its construction more to boat building, it's made from GRP mouldings. From what I see on the roads almost all modern campers are made that way now. I guess yours shows what can be done with a little work, like you've said, once you've done a repair or two it becomes less time consuming and daunting.

[mk2_craig]

That's a great read, you make it look quite easy. Still not sure I'd have the balls to deal with all that myself though. How's the chassis cab holding up corrosion wise?

[Keymaster]

That's a great read, you make it look quite easy. Still not sure I'd have the balls to deal with all that myself though. How's the chassis cab holding up corrosion wise?

Cheers. It was relatively easy once I understood what needed doing. The scary bit is stripping it back, until then you just dont know how big or small a job its going to be.

 

Cab condition is really good. The arch/scuttle/windscreen surround/inner arches are all rock solid. MOT man without prompting said its the best he has seen underneath, its had no welding to the floor or chassis and doesnt look like it will need any in the forseeable

[chodweaver]

Inspiring stuff.

 

All this by a man who claims to have no skills, tools or motivation

 

Hat doffed, sir.

 

Re: MOT fail. If we're going to imbue campers with sentience, I think what's going on here is that yours has realised that it can be properly fixed up in your tenure, and only has to flag up its other ailments at MOT time for the kwality repairs to keep on coming - like finding out your work's contract of employment entitles you to medical AND dental, and after having your laser eye surgery and dodgy knee cartilage fixed, you decide to get them to do the dental implants and colonic irrigation too.

 

Keep going. That van deserves it. And don't tell me you don't feel proud.

 

Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

[Keymaster]

 

 

All this by a man who claims to have no skills, tools or motivation

 

All true!

 

Making the solutions up as I go along

 

Buying/borrowing tools I need as I go

 

Doing it only because I have to/too tight to pay anyone to do it

 

I won't deny its been very enjoyable and satisfying to achieve the fixes though!.

[alf892]

Great work........and great perseverance........I think I might have been inclined to set fire to the dry bits!

[Keymaster]

Brakes now fixed. The load sensing valve was leaking quite merrily. I wonder if the new one will last longer than the 3 years / 3000 miles the borked one achieved?

 

Mixture screw twisted.

 

Headlights working and fixed in place.

 

Retest shall be arranged tomorrow.

[Keymaster]

SUCCESS

 

MOT Achieved!

[320touring]

SUCCESS

 

MOT Achieved!

Well done! Building warrant through for the body yet?