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1994 Fiat Panda CLX help / advice!


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#1 OFFLINE   Burnside

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:22 PM

Right, I was minding my own business last night on the laptop when by chance I spotted a rather sad and unloved Fiat Panda for sale / been broken up for spares. 

 

So I had a look as thought I'd seen this car before and sure enough I have. It was my sisters First car from over 10 years ago!

 

I was really gutted to be honest as my sister and are family really looked after that car. My brother got it from the Fiat dealer he used to work at with only 19,000 miles on the clock. Think we sold it about 2009 with 60,000 miles to a Fiat Forum member and it now on 90,000.

 

From what I can find out it's been off the road since 2014/5 after head gasket failure. Then it's been through a few hands in that time through facebook etc moving further south with nobody bothering to do anything with it other than let it deteriorate.  :-(

 

So I've fired off a email as I wanted to see what the story was and he told me the above plus he gave me a list of parts he kept / sold so far. 

 

Parts missing so far:

Wheels
All body mouldings/plastics removed (I still have all of it but I have buyers interested in bits of it)
Rear windows
Gear linkages
Throttle body rubber seal
Driver door mirror
 
I've also noticed from the pictures it's missing it CLX spec roof bars which aren't cheap / easy to find and has no bumpers or headlights fitted but he hasn't mentioned those. 
 
The advert mentioned rusty arches and sills and they showed some bad plating on the nearside sill. A Mot history check through up some welding to the front and rear suspension mounting components and a advisory on the rear seat belt anchorage areas being corroded. 
 
He said that he open to a offer on the car as it stands and it would still run but only on three cylinders which brings me to the following questions.
 
How much is a incomplete Fiat Panda Worth? 
 
What should I ask him regarding bodywork and engine condition?
 
Would the above missing parts be a massive headache to find? 
 
Can anybody recommend or help find missing parts if I brought it back?
 
What price would a Roadworthy Panda be in fair / tidy condition? 
 
Sorry if this all seams a bit all over the place but I'm not sure myself!
 
To be honest rescuing this little Panda makes no sense as I'm not even after / wanting a Fiat Panda but I hate to see what was once a good car die and  my sister would be really upset if I told her about it but I know if it was my old First Car I'd buy it in a heart beat.
 
The timing isn't great as money is really tight but if I can save it from the crusher or someone else can find it a new home that would be a major result.  :-D 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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#2 OFFLINE   Aston Martin

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:43 PM

Roof bars are a fortune.

Fiat forum has all the parts you'll need.
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#3 OFFLINE   Burnside

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:21 PM

Roof bars are a fortune.

Fiat forum has all the parts you'll need.

 

Found some bars last night but were £120!


1989 Fiat Uno 45 Mk1 Breeze.

 

1993 Vauxhall Cavalier LS 1.8i Hatch.

 

2000 Fiat Fiorino Business 1.7 TD Van. On / off project. Shared with family. 

 

2003 Renault Laguna [Merde Wagon] Sports Tourer 1.9 DCI. :-(


#4 OFFLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:01 PM

I'm a fan of the Fiat Motor Club. I imagine they may be able to help.


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#5 OFFLINE   Skut

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:40 PM

As Aston Martin said the Fiat forum panda classic section has all those bits no problem at all. A set of Seicento steelies will fit just fine and look perfectly in keeping.

Head gasket is pretty easy in the scheme of things to get it mobile again.

The rust is your only real enemy. Rear seatbelt mount advisory meets the edge of the boot floor is starting to go or has gone. Sills can be fixed but really need the outers cut off to access the inners and you need to pretty committed. They can hide a lot of rot that isnt immediately apparent.

In its dismantled rusty state id be unwilling to pay much more than £150 without feeling sorely ripped off.

#6 OFFLINE   Burnside

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:05 PM

Thanks for the advice we got given a set of Cinquecento alloys for free minus tyres though which might work but can borrow some Uno wheels to get it moved. 

 

Like the idea of the Seicento Steels as you say will suit the Panda and keep in with it's minimal style. 

 

We have a head gasket set somewhere which is a bonus. I'm more concerned about the missing gear linkages as there no longer available.

 

Rust as you say is the big issue and is where I can see this little car turning into a big project! From the only picture of the lower half showed that the passenger sill and the lip edge was mangled and also had a shite mot plate on it. So looks like the sills would need alot of work to make them solid again. I can get just about at the minute a pair of sills for £88 each. 

 

I agree £150 is about the maximum and at the minute it's over £200 to get it transported back. 

 

Will send this bloke another email tonight and see what happens. 


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1993 Vauxhall Cavalier LS 1.8i Hatch.

 

2000 Fiat Fiorino Business 1.7 TD Van. On / off project. Shared with family. 

 

2003 Renault Laguna [Merde Wagon] Sports Tourer 1.9 DCI. :-(


#7 OFFLINE   paulscavalier

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:13 PM

If you can save it and have somewhere to keep it. You could at least stop it from deteriorating any further and just do work on it as and when. I am sure most of us would want to do the same if an old car of ours turned up like that.
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#8 OFFLINE   Aston Martin

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:17 PM

Found some bars last night but were £120!



People have bought cars just to rape the bars off it.
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#9 OFFLINE   Burnside

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:47 PM

If you can save it and have somewhere to keep it. You could at least stop it from deteriorating any further and just do work on it as and when. I am sure most of us would want to do the same if an old car of ours turned up like that.

 

Thanks, well you have said pretty much what I've been thinking!

 

 

People have bought cars just to rape the bars off it.

 

I'd thought the Panda at least had escaped the knuckle draggers but sadly it seams not. Can't these people just go watch the football at the weekend instead?


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1989 Fiat Uno 45 Mk1 Breeze.

 

1993 Vauxhall Cavalier LS 1.8i Hatch.

 

2000 Fiat Fiorino Business 1.7 TD Van. On / off project. Shared with family. 

 

2003 Renault Laguna [Merde Wagon] Sports Tourer 1.9 DCI. :-(


#10 OFFLINE   For Fiats Sake

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:49 PM

That rot on the sills is the thing that will/has killed it. My first panda had the same and once the outer was cut off the three panels which all join up by the rear wheel arch were separated.  If you can weld it's not a problem, I can't so that was the end of that car.  Parts are available, you need to know where to look though! (ebay.it is a good place to start).  Not all CLX's came with roof bars, plastic trim sets are available new from Italy though plenty of Fiat Forum Classic Panda section members have little sheds full of treasure.  For long term ownership I'd start with a solid car and go from there.  If it's just a trip down memory lane a make do and mend philosophy will either put you off them for life or start a nasty case of pandaitus.

Just don't ever attend a panda 4x4 off road meet!



#11 OFFLINE   paulscavalier

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:22 AM

Sounds like the bits are all available, but it may be more of a long game with it. Picking bits up gradually as and when you see them
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#12 OFFLINE   uk_senator

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:49 PM

As has been said, its the rust thats the primary concern, the inner sills rust away from both the floor and the outer sill and theres complex (ish) reinforcement panels sandwiched in the rear, plus the suspension training arm prevents access from the inside. In places its a 4 layer sandwich with fold-over tags and spot welded together. I did mine about 5 years ago and initially cut away the outer sill, then found there wasnt enough access, so had to cut up into the rear wing about 3".

There was also a patch further along the sill along the front edge of the sill that had gone, I used the top roll of a Jag XJ40 door skin to repair it as it has a very similar profile.

They also go at the front of the door step just under the weatherseal (usually a 1" patch).

I have got a pair of roof bars I got for mine, but I`ve not been able to bring myself to drill holes in the roof to fit them, so they might be available..

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#13 OFFLINE   Ian_Fearn

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:36 PM

I have a 95 Panda clx. I absolutely love it. I paid £1500 unseen off eBay last year with 34k on it.

I'd say it's towards the better end condition wise and it's currently with a Panda specialist in Stoke have the rear inner wings sorted (proper job) which has cost just over £2k including paint.

The sills can be a complex repair costing about a grand per side with the pro I'm using.

Any half decent Panda with an Mot has got to be worth a grand now with prices rising (maybe...). There's such a friendly following and parts are dead easy to get and cheap, it'd be great to see it back on the road.
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#14 OFFLINE   castros_bro

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:01 PM

Allow me to confuse you even more.  There were Pandas elsewhere in Pandaland and there still are, here below is a Swiss Panda, in parts of Pandaland they reserve salt for their chips and not as a road dressing so it is possible to find less rotten ones also the back street Panda butchers are banned so the quality of the remaining ones is high and the ratio 4x4 to non-4x4 was higher. 

 

 

 

panda.jpg

 

 

Here is my Swiss Panda 4x4 trekking (it is the model with the fire engine) which cost £0  (in Swiss Euros) for a running no mechanical fault but dented door (you can see the damage) so the cost of the door repair was more then the car was worth hence £0 including the set of winter tyres.  They left their plates and their anydriver insurance for a couple of weeks so I drove I back to the UK  through the Autobahn snow.

 

panda2.JPG .

 

I have a few things available like an original but new set of UK spec headlights still in their boxes.  Have you bought it yet?

 

 

 

 


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#15 OFFLINE   paulscavalier

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:03 PM

As has been said, its the rust thats the primary concern, the inner sills rust away from both the floor and the outer sill and theres complex (ish) reinforcement panels sandwiched in the rear, plus the suspension training arm prevents access from the inside. In places its a 4 layer sandwich with fold-over tags and spot welded together. I did mine about 5 years ago and initially cut away the outer sill, then found there wasnt enough access, so had to cut up into the rear wing about 3".
There was also a patch further along the sill along the front edge of the sill that had gone, I used the top roll of a Jag XJ40 door skin to repair it as it has a very similar profile.
They also go at the front of the door step just under the weatherseal (usually a 1" patch).
I have got a pair of roof bars I got for mine, but I`ve not been able to bring myself to drill holes in the roof to fit them, so they might be available..

Hats off to you that's quite an involved piece of work , I would guess that the labour cost would make it a non starter if you were running one on a buget
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#16 OFFLINE   dave21478

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:05 PM

Do it because you WANT it, not because it might be worth xyz in the future, because it probably wont. Even if values do go up, you are unlikely to see your money back, especially if you cant weld it yourself. Note that some MOT patchwork in the meantime just makes things worse in the long run.

 

My 4x4 had minimal rot and doing a complete strip and rebuild myself probably still cost over 1000 eurobong in parts alone.


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#17 OFFLINE   Ian_Fearn

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:19 PM

Everybody that has driven mine loved it. You will too! Have you bought it yet?
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#18 OFFLINE   Parky

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:48 PM

I have to admit the sentimental side of things can cloud the judgement. If my first car turned up on the Bay I would be all over it. It was a piece of shit 25 years ago, if it is still alive it will only be because someone left it in a shed and it has just been discovered - and will have 25 years more corrosion in it. Still would.

Best thing to do is price up the bits it needs and judge it from there. Is the seller willing to sell it cheap or is he/ she thinking that the individual parts are worth £xxx so that's what it's going to cost you?

As what is technically an unworthy wreck it's worth bugger all but in parts terms there might be a few hundred in it so I would imagine the seller won't let it go for next to nothing, unless they want their driveway back fast

Other option - buy a spares car so you have all the bits you need to reconstruct your sisters one!

http://www.ebay.co.u...BgAAOSwWkJY9Rxo
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#19 OFFLINE   uk_senator

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:17 PM

&nbsp;

Hats off to you that's quite an involved piece of work , I would guess that the labour cost would make it a non starter if you were running one on a buget

&nbsp;

Thats just some of it, had to weld the bottoms of the doors up as well (funny enough, Jag XJ40 door skin & frame bottoms are almost an exact match for the Panda door bottoms too).

I`m a long way from being a great welder, as can be seen from the pics, but I can burn metal together which is pretty necessary if you run 80`s Fiats as dailies.

If you were paying someone to do it, it probably wouldnt be financially viable.

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#20 OFFLINE   Burnside

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:38 PM

Sounds like the bits are all available, but it may be more of a long game with it. Picking bits up gradually as and when you see them

 

Do it because you WANT it, not because it might be worth xyz in the future, because it probably wont. Even if values do go up, you are unlikely to see your money back, especially if you cant weld it yourself. Note that some MOT patchwork in the meantime just makes things worse in the long run.

 

My 4x4 had minimal rot and doing a complete strip and rebuild myself probably still cost over 1000 eurobong in parts alone.

 

 

I have to admit the sentimental side of things can cloud the judgement. If my first car turned up on the Bay I would be all over it. It was a piece of shit 25 years ago, if it is still alive it will only be because someone left it in a shed and it has just been discovered - and will have 25 years more corrosion in it. Still would.

Best thing to do is price up the bits it needs and judge it from there. Is the seller willing to sell it cheap or is he/ she thinking that the individual parts are worth £xxx so that's what it's going to cost you?

As what is technically an unworthy wreck it's worth bugger all but in parts terms there might be a few hundred in it so I would imagine the seller won't let it go for next to nothing, unless they want their driveway back fast

Other option - buy a spares car so you have all the bits you need to reconstruct your sisters one!

http://www.ebay.co.u...BgAAOSwWkJY9Rxo

 

Thanks everyone the above comments is pretty much what / where I'm at thinking wise, the lad has messaged me back and has dropped a hint that he only wanted the car for parts in the first place and has told me there a few more bits missing. [ Headlights and Centre Console] 

 

He also wants to keep the 40 mm springs that are fitted. [ Why do you need to lower a Panda? ]  Or I could supply him with a new set of springs instead about £100.

 

I've been honest with him and told him the car is only worth scrap value in it's present state especially when you factor in the likely welding costs [ I can't weld] as uk_senator pictures show that won't either be easy or cheap but then as dave2148 said I'd be only doing this to save the Panda from the scrap man I've never been into cars for the money.

 

This lad seams decent enough so far and is very happy for me to arrange a vist and have a chat about the Panda but he not really committed to giving me a price other than he agreed that the car is only on face value scrap money but on the other hand there still £££'s in parts.

 

My only big problem is I would need to find a cheap transporter person to bring this back on top of the buying price which will make or break [ no pun intended ] this rescue mission as funds are low at present?

 

Any suggestions it located in Chippenham, Wiltshire and the Car will have to be stored in Sutton Coldfield for the time being. 


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1989 Fiat Uno 45 Mk1 Breeze.

 

1993 Vauxhall Cavalier LS 1.8i Hatch.

 

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2003 Renault Laguna [Merde Wagon] Sports Tourer 1.9 DCI. :-(


#21 OFFLINE   stephen01

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:25 PM

The panda I got blind off eBay I'm sure had been in the sea for the last 10 years of its life, it was absolutely fucked, so bad in fact that I scrapped the bugger as I reckoned no one would ever get it back on the road, the worst part about it is that the MOT history was clean on it, the tester must have been blind/bent.

The one car I wanted to keep was a fiat brava, 1.2 I'd buy it back in a heartbeat but I checked and it was CAT C a fair few years ago and has never been on the road since

#22 OFFLINE   Mr_Bo11ox

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:53 PM

The seller sounds like hard work to me, be prepared to find a deal is nigh-impossible to achieve

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#23 OFFLINE   For Fiats Sake

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:10 AM

2wd pandas come up frequently and don't attract the higher 4x4 prices.

 

I'd hold off for a complete car with an mot if I were you, those repairs, headlights and other bits missing are all going to mount up.  This car sounds like a PITA already. I've been overly optimistic about pandas before only to be bitten by the little blighters, soft and cuddly they ain't.



#24 OFFLINE   Burnside

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 11:42 AM

Well I've spent most of last night into the early hours thinking and writing another email back to the lad about the Panda. I have again reinforced to him that the car has very little value and I don't have a endless supply of cash either.

 

If he thinks it's worth say £300 then as much as I'd like to save it, when I add in the transport costs at present it would rule this Panda out which would be a real sad day for us. 

 

I'd be happy just get the rolling shell back as maybe I could look into doing something with the Panda other than trying to make it 100% original though I haven't said that too him as didn't want to risk it getting further butchered at this stage.

 

I know people have gone down the punto 1242cc engine conversion route or even a bike engine but these are just pipe dreams if I'm honest at the minute. 

 

As I've said I'm only interested because of this Pandas history with us, Pandas are fantastic cars and I haven't thought about us having another but hopefully this lad is a realist about the Pandas current state and I can work something out with him.

 

Have to say though I'm really disappointed these days with so called car clubs attitude to knuckle dragging being the norm. It's fine spending £300 on a lowering kit but sod dealing with that small bit of rust, then the next thing 18 months down the line it's being broken for spares as it needs too much work.  :roll:

 

 

The panda I got blind off eBay I'm sure had been in the sea for the last 10 years of its life, it was absolutely fucked, so bad in fact that I scrapped the bugger as I reckoned no one would ever get it back on the road, the worst part about it is that the MOT history was clean on it, the tester must have been blind/bent.

The one car I wanted to keep was a fiat brava, 1.2 I'd buy it back in a heartbeat but I checked and it was CAT C a fair few years ago and has never been on the road since

 

The Fiat Brava / Bravo's and the Marea are great cars that are really disappearing from UK roads now. My sister replaced her Panda with a 99 T reg Bravo 1.6 16V HLX and it was great fun to drive once we got the injectors sorted. 

 

Would have another one if the chance came along as soon there be as rare as the Tipo / Tempra is now. My old Tipo 1.4 DGT was a shed but it made me smile every time I drove it till some bastard garage wrecked it. 


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1993 Vauxhall Cavalier LS 1.8i Hatch.

 

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2003 Renault Laguna [Merde Wagon] Sports Tourer 1.9 DCI. :-(


#25 OFFLINE   paulscavalier

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 03:21 PM

Have to say though I'm really disappointed these days with so called car clubs attitude to knuckle dragging being the norm. It's fine spending £300 on a lowering kit but sod dealing with that small bit of rust, then the next thing 18 months down the line it's being broken for spares as it needs too much work.  :roll

You are so right there seems little interest in conserving cars, more into short term stuff like slamming then on the floor changing the wheels then binning them off once a big bill comes up. That's why I prefer it on here.
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