Jump to content

Cobbler's's Talbot Express - Time to move it on?


cobblers

Recommended Posts

Rebuild it yourself.

It isn't magic, it's care and if it is your engine, you will care.

Spend what you have to on engine machinists and OEM parts, take your time, listen to real advice (not sales spiel and pub/internet bollocks) and it will be fine.

Read Mat's Hyundai/Rover engine rebuild for inspiration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say, the feeling of hearing the engine come to life after having it completely stripped down, is special! I enjoyed the building it up too, but probably only because there was no time pressure (apart from getting it out of the sitting room - I have an understanding wife...) I wouldn't have liked to pay someone for the hours I spent on it, but obviously a professional will be able to do some things quicker. It's finding one who cares enough not to cut corners though, which is difficult when so much is decided on price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gotta be honest, I'd have been with you in suspecting lifters, because that doesn't sound like bottom end to me either

 

In my experience big end knock is usually not that pronounced at idle and gets significantly worse under load, it's also more 'irregular' if that makes sense.

 

I know it's gonna be messy but could you run it briefly with the rocker covers off and put pressure on each rocker arm as it's running with the end of a hammer, or your finger...and see if any of them quieten it down? that's how I find noisy ones on conventional engines

 

I may well be completely wrong and it is shafted, but I'd be doing a few more tests to confirm before announcing time of death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's really bloody loud under load at about 2000rpm. If it had a sump I'd be whipping it off and checking the bearing caps, but it all goes together sideways because VW. It does however go at half engine RPM and sounds like its coming from the left hand side of the engine.

 

The fact that having 8 brand new lifters and setting the clearances up 3 times made no difference, means one way or another, it's got to come apart - There's no more I can do with the heads on.

The pushrods are fine, the rockers are also fine.

 

I have suspicions that it could still be valvetrain noise though, from a bad cam lobe.

When I sat down and really looked at them, a pair of the lifters which both run on one lobe are in way worse order than the rest, to the extent where there is a slight burr on the edge of them which made them hard to extract compared to the other 6.

 

They're the middle two:

post-3886-0-81991100-1492978294_thumb.jpg

 

It might just need a new cam in it, obviously with it being a recent build I probably ended up with a chinesium camshaft like other people have. The cam looked like it could be pitted too, but it was hard to tell for sure at the time. Looking back at the pictures, the third lobe along (nearest the pushrod tube) looks quite unhappy compared to the second one.

 

post-3886-0-33826200-1492978555_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-62109000-1492978560_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you set up a DTI to measure valve lift? If that is significantly different between cylinders then it points to your problem. A compression test in conjunction with a leakdown test would also be a clue - if you're getting little difference in cylinder leakage, then any variation in pressure doing a compression test is likely down to differences in cylinder filling, such as if one valve isn't opening fully...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

should be a good few of these for sale, with folk converting them to turbo'diesel??

Its the case here, that nearly everyone, with one of these here, converts them to diesel- my mate has a late 2.1 petrol van, n as soon as he bought it was, gathering up the various parts, sump, engine bars, bellhousing etc to convert his to 1.9D 1Y - in the meantime he was changing the oil in the 2.1 every 1200 miles, to keep it goin...

 

once he converted his van, the 2.1 sat on his garage floor for about 6months before he got someone to come on, n pay him some cash for it...

 

A lotta folk with heavey camper t25s convert a perfectly healthy 2.1 to diesel as they tire of the petrols thirst n general lethargy ...

 

It'd get the van up n runnin while you do the engine rebuild; not geat for enthusiasm levels for a car, having to rebuild its engine, a week or two after buying it...  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Woohoo!

 

I found a used engine from Mick at NWVW. £400, he promises me it's good and if it's no good he says he'll sort me out. It should be here on Thursday, along with a set of stainless steel front-rear coolant pipes.

Fingers crossed I'll be back on the road next week. Brilliant stuff!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's the plan I reckon. I'll strip it in the garden and lug it up to my workshop in the attic and rebuild it gently and have it on standby, unless it turns out to be megafucked in which case I'd just flog the heads off it or something.

I'm currently talking myself out of a set of stainless manifolds and a stainless backbox for this from the same bloke who's got the engine - The current exhaust isn't fantastic and these 2.1s sound flipping sweet if you can get them to run without any exhaust leaks.

That said I should probably just wait to see if this new engine is any good before spaffing all that cash. But I got a big payrise at work yesterday..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a very good price for an engine, is that inclusive of pineapple tax? Best get a rear oilseal ordered, hopefully there'll be a flexplate in place otherwise best of British to you for your impending bout of dicking around with shims to set the crank float.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah shit really? I thought the flexplates just bolted on like a flywheel, I've never dealt with one before, I always thought there was endfloat shims internally for all that malarcy.

The engines out of a manual syncro so it's coming with a normal flywheel on.

 

OH and thanks, I've just ordered a new crank seal, that's saved me a right holdup this weekend. Hopefully I'll have the right combination of shims and cornflake boxes to space the flexplate out properly!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've ordered a DTI and micrometer and whatnot, and asked if the bloke fetching the engine has some spare shims he could chuck in too so I can hopefully find a good combination.

 

I would imagine that rather than aiming for the same endfloat as a new engine, I want to really aim for keeping the "internal endfloat" the same more or less, to avoid pulling the crank too far out? EG if there's 0.5mm endfloat on the new engine, but the thrust washer is 0.3mm thinner than my "As new" one, then I set the thing for 0.2mm float with my new washer and the flexplate? Essentially putting the crank where it would be with a new thrust washer? Obviously I'm just pulling numbers out of my arse here but you get what I mean.

I would imagine it's less critical on my van anyway because there's no clutch pressure anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd go for minimum clearance every time, might just keep a little drop more oil around the ends, they were a weak point, don't know if it was extended service interval malarkey or that drivers didn't hear just how much they were thrashing them when racing Transits, was always fun seeing a fanbelt outlasting its engine.

I did a black Monday era rattle gun rebuild on one, came to me on a shopping trolley and I don't think it broke a tenner, emery cloth re-grind with a Tiger seal and red lead or something head gasket refurb, those were hard times, now look at the last one I did.

 

IMG_4699.jpg

 

It's certainly better here in the future, if we ignore that no fucker can afford a house.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You want the least expensive option. The crank is in trouble. so fix the crank and fuck everything else. Pull the engine, strip it in the back of the van (plastic sheeting yo) take all the bits to a reconditioners to get the crank reground, new shells and rod bolts, gaskets, get the other bits cleaned in an ultrasonic tank and reassemble. The head studs may* be completely buggered. Obvsly strip and clean the oil pump.

 

The minute you start replacing rings, pistons etc, the game is lost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I reckon the problem with the engine is probably a little end, because the noise varies with cylinder load and is only really on the compression stroke.

There's also the fact that it's done 400 miles like this under my pilot without me being particularly gentle on it and nothing has exploded yet

Also there was only a very small amount of sparkly stuff in the oil, if any.

 

 

Anyway, the new engine is here. TBH I'm not exactly struck by its appearance, it's a greasy filthy horrible old bastard, but the price was right I suppose:

 

post-3886-0-14001600-1493234056_thumb.jpg

 

It turns over fairly easily, the oil seems pretty clean too. I'll degrease and jetwash it before I even attempt to fit it, and I need to strip all the ropey looking ancillaries off it and make sure all the exhaust port threads are workable etc etc and then I'll crack on fitting it sometime this weekend if I can rope a mate in to help me muscle it about etc.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That lump looks ready to fit, just a thought, but maybe if you're not certain the knock is an end, try some levering on the front pulley to push and pull it in case it's got some comedy float going on, who knows how it could have been thrown together last? Fuck, it might have been me!

 

Do you rebuild VW engines then Des?

Only out of necessity these days, not viable when so many replacement parts are crafted from flame hardened dog toffee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That lump looks ready to fit, just a thought, but maybe if you're not certain the knock is an end, try some levering on the front pulley to push and pull it in case it's got some comedy float going on, who knows how it could have been thrown together last? Fuck, it might have been me!

 

Aye I'll give it a wiggle. A mate is itching to buy it off me to get rebuilt and stick in his own van, but I reckon I'll hang onto it and do it myself.

 

 

I had a better look at the new engine and it's really fuckin 'orrible, just look at these exhaust ports  :?

 

post-3886-0-48494700-1493292165_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-56368100-1493292170_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-63259100-1493292181_thumb.jpg

 

 

I've got an m8 helicoil kit on the way, I reckon I'll be very familiar with it before long.

 

post-3886-0-58572000-1493292189_thumb.jpg

There's also one of the engine mount bolts snapped off in the bloody block too, but hopefully it should come out fairly easily as it was only put back in finger tight, then snapped off when the engine was put down.

 

Once I've cleaned the engine up I think I'll have the oil pump cover off, just to see if looks as though it's been pumping lumps of camshaft and gravel through etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had a few hours on this today but didn't get much done. I had the trots all night and had a 30minute drive over to Rotherham, so I had to wait til "MTBP" was >30 mins which took until about 11am.

 

When I got there I had to rush round and do a couple of little jobs on the brown van as there was someone coming to look at it, by the time they'd left it was nearly 3pm.

 

Anyway, I lifted the new engine out of the van (which was a real test of my intestinal fortidude) and got busy with the degreaser and pressure washer.

It's still awful, but it's a lot better.

 

post-3886-0-31570600-1493487407_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-83096300-1493487417_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-61477800-1493487425_thumb.jpg

 

I repaired a couple more threads, took all the inlet manifold off and the spark plugs out, which were absolutely stuck like bastards and took a 2 foot breaker bar to move.

 

With the plugs out I doused the bores with GT85 and stuff to make sure I displaced any water that might have found it's way in while I was washing the thing, and then wound the thing over with my big drill and a 30mm socket.

 

It turns over smoothly, all the pots seem to sound fine and provided about the same kind of compression when I bunged my finger in the spark plug hole etc etc.

 

Hopefully I'll have a bit more productive day tomorrow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was hoping to get a proper measurement with the compression tester, if only to compare them all, but the drill didn't have enough bollocks to wind the thing over on a compression stroke.

 

I was going to dig out a bellhousing and a spare starter motor to do it properly, but my mate has filled the lockup with shit so I couldn't get anywhere near the box where I think they are so I'll probably find out the bad news once it's in there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey so I had a bit of a day at it today, managed to get the old engine out using a trolley jack and a (£25!!!!) ratchet strap, no dramas, torque converter remains in the gearbox and hasn't bounced down the drive.

A bloke was DEFINTIEELY coming with cash today to buy my other van, but obviously he didn't so I was uninterrupted.

 

 

Anyway to start with I went down to my lockups to get some tools and shit.

Since I was last there, someone has put a pissing Scimitar in one of them. Turns out it was given to my mate, but from what I can see he overpaid.

post-3886-0-96305500-1493575014_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-67671800-1493575039_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-62311600-1493575047_thumb.jpg

THe other garage is so stacked with shit it took me half an hour to find a trolley jack (which didn't even work FFS) and it turns out my mate had given the ramps to the scrap man.

So after that complete waste of time I went back over to my mums and got the van in the air, all safe like, on my "ramps"

post-3886-0-47349900-1493575189_thumb.jpg

 

 

I'm starting to remember why I fell out with these WBX engines with my last van. EVERYTHING is in the way of EVERYTHING else. I've no idea how they built the fuckers in the factory, but there doesn't seem to be a "proper" way of getting anything off without having to swing on one thing or another.

The combination of backbox mounts,exhaust heat shield and rear engine mount bar are one of the most irritating collections of engineering I've ever seen. The bloke who drew it all up really needs a kicking, and obviously someones been here before so half the bolts are in the wrong way, seized, 12mm instead of 13mm and so on.

To top it off two of the captive nuts which bolt the heatshield to the rear valence were spinning too so I had a right mare with it overall.

 

So with a load of stuff hoyed out of the way, I lowered the engine and box then slid the engine off the box, then lowered the engine the rest of the way:

 

 

post-3886-0-92736500-1493575400_thumb.jpg

 

post-3886-0-49411600-1493575416_thumb.jpg

 

 

I then set about swapping ancilliaries over, This new engine is a fuckin nightmare, every thread and bolt and surface on it is just scabby as anything. I've had the rocker covers off and it's mintola inside, just awful on the outside. It was fighting me all the way and honestly I'm sick to death of working on that bastard drive at my mums house - it's on about a 1:5 gradient which makes even simple tasks incredibly tiring, especially when you're lugging engines up and down the thing. I really can't wait til we move and I get myself a flat driveway of some sort.

Obviously every single fastener on the exhaust needed grinding off too.

 

So as I was swapping the bits and bobs over, I got to the crank pulley and noticed the one on the new engine (single pulley) has some kind of shim on the seal surface and a different sized seal. I need to swap it over as the old engine has PAS so needs and extra belt, but the seal is nowhere near the same size.

There's no chance of getting the van back on the road this weekend without a crank seal, but I'll try and get the engine back in and then change it in situ. I'll be able to get the thing running briefly with the wrong one.

 

 

Oh, and I found out why it was slow to turn over:

post-3886-0-69182500-1493575445_thumb.jpg

I'll chop a bit off the wire and crimp a new end on at some point - I need to get a connector and some adhesive heatshrink from work first.

 

I was just about knackered come 6pm, so I decided to degrease and clean up all the engine bay. I had stupid ideas of tarting up all the flaky rusty bits and painting them blue but I soon thought better of it. Access is decent enough with the engine in TBH so I might do it another day, once it's back on it's wheels.

 

post-3886-0-97316600-1493575452_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-73722800-1493575458_thumb.jpg

post-3886-0-00260800-1493575464_thumb.jpg

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It turns out that this extra shim thing on the crank pulley is an extra water seal that's only fitted on Syncro T25s. Which makes sense as that's what the engine came out of.

 

If anyone knows where I can get a 68x48x10mm oil seal local to Chesterfield or Rotherham tomorrow, I'll be dead grateful.

 

Seals are just standard things so this same seal will be used as driveshaft oil seals and all kinds of things on other vehicles.

 

VW part number is 025105247A /  Elring 749.885

Apparently it's used on Ford and Mazda engines too, I reckon if I could work out what there would be one on a shelf at ECP, but can you imagine going in to ECP on bank holiday monday and asking for a 68x48x10mm oil seal? If anyone actually bothered to come to the counter they'd laugh you out of the place

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^This, don't bother with a factors just go straight to a bearing place. 

 

Here is the seal you need online, no good for tomorrow though.

 

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p25008/48x68x10mm-Nitrile-Rubber-Rotary-Shaft-Oil-Seal-with-Garter-Spring-R21-/-SC/product_info.html

 

Here is the first place that came up when Googling "Seals & bearings Rotherham", they have a mobile number on the website for 24 hour service, possibly worth a ring tomorrow?

 

http://www.cityseals.co.uk/_htm/contactdetails.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...