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Caravelle GL Auto. Found an engine!


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139 replies to this topic

#121 OFFLINE   Mally

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 03:47 PM

Thinking about it we've had the tranny 10 years and a Sierra and Mondeo before that. So some while since we spent £1,600 on a chocolate cam from VW Heritage. They accused us of not changing the oil!

The one we have now is 2.1 Auto. You need the bigger engine with an auto box.

Not sure what it is about the heads, but VW Heritage fit new ones, or did on ours.

 

We had problems assembling the two halves, tricky job, feel we got a main bearing wrong.

Would say its very difficult to assemble on your own if not impossible.

 

But as you say worth a try to you. 

Be sure to keep the joints clean and use correct sealant, or similar, VW stuff is not cheap, think we used Wynns at the time.



#122 OFFLINE   Pillock

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 04:14 PM

Half the problem with Flat 4 engine rebuilders is that they're all too tight to use new parts, and these engines are often getting on for their third or fourth rebuild... So at some point in the 90s someone put some chocolate parts in (probably because they came in a pretty Empi or Bugpak box), and then on the second rebuild those parts went off to be refurbished and went back into the system as a refurbished original part.

Essentially, you're not just getting chocolate bits... You're getting already-chewed chocolate parts.

Potentially VW have some blame to take here as new parts for their engines were always expensive, hence the massive remanufactured and copy parts industry.

#123 OFFLINE   Mally

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:16 PM

Heritage said the camshafts were metal sprayed, as originals were unobtainium.

I see they are now advertising OE air cooled camshafts, re profilied for water boxer.

Must have been others with our problem.



#124 ONLINE   Asimo

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:25 PM

Rebuild it yourself.
It isn't magic, it's care and if it is your engine, you will care.
Spend what you have to on engine machinists and OEM parts, take your time, listen to real advice (not sales spiel and pub/internet bollocks) and it will be fine.
Read Mat's Hyundai/Rover engine rebuild for inspiration.
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#125 OFFLINE   mat_the_cat

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:18 PM

I have to say, the feeling of hearing the engine come to life after having it completely stripped down, is special! I enjoyed the building it up too, but probably only because there was no time pressure (apart from getting it out of the sitting room - I have an understanding wife...) I wouldn't have liked to pay someone for the hours I spent on it, but obviously a professional will be able to do some things quicker. It's finding one who cares enough not to cut corners though, which is difficult when so much is decided on price.



#126 ONLINE   Captain Furious

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:04 PM

Gotta be honest, I'd have been with you in suspecting lifters, because that doesn't sound like bottom end to me either

In my experience big end knock is usually not that pronounced at idle and gets significantly worse under load, it's also more 'irregular' if that makes sense.

I know it's gonna be messy but could you run it briefly with the rocker covers off and put pressure on each rocker arm as it's running with the end of a hammer, or your finger...and see if any of them quieten it down? that's how I find noisy ones on conventional engines

I may well be completely wrong and it is shafted, but I'd be doing a few more tests to confirm before announcing time of death.

#127 ONLINE   cobblers

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:17 PM

It's really bloody loud under load at about 2000rpm. If it had a sump I'd be whipping it off and checking the bearing caps, but it all goes together sideways because VW. It does however go at half engine RPM and sounds like its coming from the left hand side of the engine.

 

The fact that having 8 brand new lifters and setting the clearances up 3 times made no difference, means one way or another, it's got to come apart - There's no more I can do with the heads on.

The pushrods are fine, the rockers are also fine.

 

I have suspicions that it could still be valvetrain noise though, from a bad cam lobe.

When I sat down and really looked at them, a pair of the lifters which both run on one lobe are in way worse order than the rest, to the extent where there is a slight burr on the edge of them which made them hard to extract compared to the other 6.

 

They're the middle two:

2017-04-23 13.41.44.jpg

 

It might just need a new cam in it, obviously with it being a recent build I probably ended up with a chinesium camshaft like other people have. The cam looked like it could be pitted too, but it was hard to tell for sure at the time. Looking back at the pictures, the third lobe along (nearest the pushrod tube) looks quite unhappy compared to the second one.

 

2017-04-22 10.06.48.jpg

2017-04-22 10.06.51.jpg

 

 

 

 



#128 OFFLINE   mat_the_cat

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:06 PM

Could you set up a DTI to measure valve lift? If that is significantly different between cylinders then it points to your problem. A compression test in conjunction with a leakdown test would also be a clue - if you're getting little difference in cylinder leakage, then any variation in pressure doing a compression test is likely down to differences in cylinder filling, such as if one valve isn't opening fully...



#129 OFFLINE   dieselassist

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:46 PM

should be a good few of these for sale, with folk converting them to turbo'diesel??

Its the case here, that nearly everyone, with one of these here, converts them to diesel- my mate has a late 2.1 petrol van, n as soon as he bought it was, gathering up the various parts, sump, engine bars, bellhousing etc to convert his to 1.9D 1Y - in the meantime he was changing the oil in the 2.1 every 1200 miles, to keep it goin...

 

once he converted his van, the 2.1 sat on his garage floor for about 6months before he got someone to come on, n pay him some cash for it...

 

A lotta folk with heavey camper t25s convert a perfectly healthy 2.1 to diesel as they tire of the petrols thirst n general lethargy ...

 

It'd get the van up n runnin while you do the engine rebuild; not geat for enthusiasm levels for a car, having to rebuild its engine, a week or two after buying it...  



#130 OFFLINE   andy18s

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Posted Yesterday, 10:09 AM

Gsf are having yet another 55%off week (yawn)
But interestingly enough have attached at 15% discount offer with
Ve wee wee to it.
Maybe of some use?

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#131 ONLINE   cobblers

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Posted Yesterday, 11:30 AM

Woohoo!

 

I found a used engine from Mick at NWVW. £400, he promises me it's good and if it's no good he says he'll sort me out. It should be here on Thursday, along with a set of stainless steel front-rear coolant pipes.

Fingers crossed I'll be back on the road next week. Brilliant stuff!


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#132 ONLINE   trigger

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Posted Yesterday, 11:35 AM

Yay!


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#133 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted Yesterday, 07:05 PM

Keep the old engine and then rebuild it at your leisure + fun? Then either have it as a spare ready or sell it for some wodge later.
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#134 ONLINE   cobblers

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Posted Today, 06:50 AM

Yeah, that's the plan I reckon. I'll strip it in the garden and lug it up to my workshop in the attic and rebuild it gently and have it on standby, unless it turns out to be megafucked in which case I'd just flog the heads off it or something.

I'm currently talking myself out of a set of stainless manifolds and a stainless backbox for this from the same bloke who's got the engine - The current exhaust isn't fantastic and these 2.1s sound flipping sweet if you can get them to run without any exhaust leaks.

That said I should probably just wait to see if this new engine is any good before spaffing all that cash. But I got a big payrise at work yesterday..


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#135 OFFLINE   Rod/b

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Posted Today, 09:04 AM

You're basically winning at life right now. Combi + new engine + payrise...

Buy a lottery ticket man

#136 OFFLINE   Des

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Posted Today, 09:29 AM

That's a very good price for an engine, is that inclusive of pineapple tax? Best get a rear oilseal ordered, hopefully there'll be a flexplate in place otherwise best of British to you for your impending bout of dicking around with shims to set the crank float.


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#137 ONLINE   cobblers

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Posted Today, 09:39 AM

Ah shit really? I thought the flexplates just bolted on like a flywheel, I've never dealt with one before, I always thought there was endfloat shims internally for all that malarcy.

The engines out of a manual syncro so it's coming with a normal flywheel on.

 

OH and thanks, I've just ordered a new crank seal, that's saved me a right holdup this weekend. Hopefully I'll have the right combination of shims and cornflake boxes to space the flexplate out properly!



#138 OFFLINE   Des

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Posted Today, 03:31 PM

Actually now I think of it you'll have 2 engines worth of shims, and a nice unworn thrust washer because auto.


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#139 ONLINE   cobblers

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Posted Today, 04:54 PM

I've ordered a DTI and micrometer and whatnot, and asked if the bloke fetching the engine has some spare shims he could chuck in too so I can hopefully find a good combination.

 

I would imagine that rather than aiming for the same endfloat as a new engine, I want to really aim for keeping the "internal endfloat" the same more or less, to avoid pulling the crank too far out? EG if there's 0.5mm endfloat on the new engine, but the thrust washer is 0.3mm thinner than my "As new" one, then I set the thing for 0.2mm float with my new washer and the flexplate? Essentially putting the crank where it would be with a new thrust washer? Obviously I'm just pulling numbers out of my arse here but you get what I mean.

I would imagine it's less critical on my van anyway because there's no clutch pressure anyway.


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#140 OFFLINE   Des

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Posted Today, 07:33 PM

I'd go for minimum clearance every time, might just keep a little drop more oil around the ends, they were a weak point, don't know if it was extended service interval malarkey or that drivers didn't hear just how much they were thrashing them when racing Transits, was always fun seeing a fanbelt outlasting its engine.

I did a black Monday era rattle gun rebuild on one, came to me on a shopping trolley and I don't think it broke a tenner, emery cloth re-grind with a Tiger seal and red lead or something head gasket refurb, those were hard times, now look at the last one I did.

 

IMG_4699.jpg

 

It's certainly better here in the future, if we ignore that no fucker can afford a house.


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