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Renault Twingo Mk 1


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#31 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 11:43 PM

New one = £475 + new clutch (because) £70-100 + some gaskets for fannymolds and the like.
Secondhand one = £200 + delivery/fetching (call it £50) + new timing belt kit (£90ish) + clutch (because engine out) plus gaskets since Clio sourced.

Rebuild what I've got = £90 gaskets + £90 timing belt + chances of it all just going pop and being a bit crap because the bottom end has done a lot of miles anyway and.

 

So IMO the difference in price over secondhand is negligible in this case, compared to the effort of installation and final result.

 

Result one - total costs including all the bits I want to do, new radiator etc - I'll probably have sunk about £800 into the car, but it'll have a new engine and clutch, new radiator, perfect coolant etc.

 

Result two - total costs around £550 including the new radiator etc, and I have a car with a probably 60,000 mile engine in it.

 

Result three - total costs around £400 I reckon, and I'll have a 127,000 something clutch and engine, and will have probably put a lot more work and faff into it as well.


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#32 OFFLINE   Mr_Bo11ox

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 11:46 PM

475 quid for a brand spanker sounds like good VALU
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#33 ONLINE   Rusty_Rocket

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 08:50 AM

It is good value.. but I would TOTALLY be pulling the cylinder head, fitting the head gasket kit you already have and have it back on the road this time next week..


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#34 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 09:06 AM

I don't already have the gasket kit :)


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#35 OFFLINE   tooSavvy

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 09:10 AM

PROTON Savvys are being 'broken' these days for the want of a balljoint.... D4F Clio engine.... seems some breakers don't know they fit Renaults >> so you might do a 26k clokwork for £250+

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...YAAAOSwc-tY07kE

 

... alright 77,000

 

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#36 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 09:11 AM

This is a D7F - is the D4F the 16v? I'd probably need to swap the ECU etc.


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#37 ONLINE   Rusty_Rocket

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 09:11 AM

Fair enough! I would be inclined to go down the quick 'n dirty route though, especially if you have a lot on your plate at the moment.

That's just me though, if you want to make a really nice job of it, the new engine would 'make' the car.



#38 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:53 PM

It is decided. It will get a new engine, and new clutch. Next job when I work on it is to change the brake fluid while the parts are out of the way in the engine bay.


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#39 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 11:03 PM

Slow progress - I need to sell the SEC or a lot of old computers before more can be made, but I'll get there.

post-19568-0-15691500-1494198157.jpg


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#40 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 02:39 PM

Well that was a fucking waste of time.

Renparts dropped the NOS engine when sorting it to send, didn't tell me for two weeks, when pressed on it finally said they'd been sorting out a reconditioned head to fix the damage...

 

Refund asked for, and I'll have to go with fixing the engine that is in the car after all, but what an infuriating and stressful experience that was.

 

(And all they had to do was call when it happened and explain the delay, and I'd have been much more amenable to it being rebuilt. They've pretty much offered to do anything to make it right, but trust is lost now :(. Nearly said "come and get my Twingo and rebuild it then!").


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#41 OFFLINE   mk2_craig

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 02:49 PM

What else had these motors in? Assuming there's a Clio or Modus with similar mechanicals, you might find a giffer spec write off with super low mileage at a breakers?

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#42 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 02:53 PM

Clios have the basic engine, I've found a few on eBay but TBH this experience has made me wary of trusting anyone with the money to supply the engine. My trust level of British garages/etc. is already ridiculously low; covered up bodges, lack of admission when things are broken, etc. - which is why I try (and fail sometimes) to do everything myself.

 

(Bad experiences with Border Engines also make me trust "reconditioned" engines about as far as I could throw them. Which in fairness, is further than my MG Metro got with one of their £800+ highest-end rebuilt* engines fitted).

I think in this case I need to just pull the engine I've got out, get the head off and cleaned up, shove new bits on it and put it together. The advice given earlier on in the thread and by many people, but NOOoooooOOOo, I had to try and be clever and get a new engine ;)

 

* it's a bloody A-series. It should be possible to rebuild it with a hammer and some gaffer tape, let alone a full production line facility marketing warranted rebuilt units. Bloody shysters.


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#43 OFFLINE   mk2_craig

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 02:57 PM

I'd always rather replace a part with new, but outside a money no object situation, recycling is usually the order of the day. If the rest of the car is mega sound then a few hundred on a brand spanker is a great investment. Then again if you're not hanging onto it long term there's no harm in boshing on new belts'n'gaskets and seeing how it gets on.
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#44 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 03:00 PM

To my mind rebuilding the engine in there myself - or at least, with oversight of what has been done - is preferable to an "on trust" reconditioned or used engine, but inferior to what I had originally lined up, a new old stock engine. That was a lucky* find at the price but since they let me down...


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#45 OFFLINE   somewhatfoolish

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 04:22 PM

How do you damage the cylinder head on an assembled engine sufficiently badly that it needs replacing? Did they fire it out of a cannon? Even dropping it upside down seems unlikely to do more than break the valve cover unless the dropping is from 40,000'.


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#46 ONLINE   Aston Martin

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 06:37 PM

Throw an R1 engine in the back... failing that a K-series from a Metro.
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#47 OFFLINE   stephen01

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:15 PM

Why? They're still cheap and seem pretty bulletproof. I'll get one at some point, but it has to be a phase one with the green interior bits in one of the launch colours.

Interesting to read more about this be, please keep it updated!

 

I have one of these with the green switches etc. its a 1994 model.



#48 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 06:26 PM

How do you damage the cylinder head on an assembled engine sufficiently badly that it needs replacing? Did they fire it out of a cannon? Even dropping it upside down seems unlikely to do more than break the valve cover unless the dropping is from 40,000'.

 

 

From the way it was described, the engine lifting bracket cracked part of the head. Unfortunate for all concerned really, but I wish they'd told me when it happened instead of trying to keep me in the dark about it. They've refunded me, but I need mental space to get back into this after having a plan around a new engine in my head all this time :(


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#49 OFFLINE   somewhatfoolish

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 05:44 AM

Could you not get a discount on it and get your existing head refurbed?


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#50 OFFLINE   lovejoy

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 07:55 AM

quote  -  "but I need mental space to get back into this after having a plan around a new engine in my head all this time :(  "

Methinks RichardK  DEFINITELY  needs his head refurbished now !   :mrgreen:

 

As an aside, I bought one of these Twingoes from Wuvvum of this Parish,

full length blue cloth roof, easily operated one handed from drivers seat,

It was a superb little quirky car, so well thought out, had the D7F engine,

but if I had another, I would go for the earlier R5 engined version, like Mr.

Bikkle is hanging onto !   There must be tens of thousands of 'em still in Eu.


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#51 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:18 AM

Could you not get a discount on it and get your existing head refurbed?

 

 

I could get the rebuilt engine, but because they tried to hide the issues I don't want to deal with them. Shame, as they're offering to be very helpful. I might go up and meet them in person.


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#52 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:19 AM

Funnily enough Chris, the earlies are drying up now.

Prices at the bottom end are firming, and the early ones, (arguably the purest,) are beginning to rise in value- if they've welded n/s/r sill properly. where they all go.

Later ones are still priced normally ( as a good usable used car ) but the Mk1's are clearly now passing out of banger status,

Be quick, they'll be gone soon.
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#53 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:41 AM

I've just re read all of this, and don't understand why you have spent months pontificating about a new engine, without even removing the head?
I assumed you couldn't get it off with the engine in the car, but your pics show it to be accessible, and you've done all the hard work clearing space around it?

So why not just whip it off, get it checked at a good Ebngineering shop ( crack tested, valve leaks etc) skimmed and refitted? It's a much cheaper option- on a low value car, could be sorted within a few days.
That will create a lot less stress than extracting that entire engine from that tiny bay. I'm betting that getting off the box will be a nightmare, unless you disconnect the drive shafts and hoik that out too?

If you subsequently discover the block is borked- pretty unlikely but possible, then just screw the head bolts back into the block and lift the lighter, more manoeuvrable lump.

I'm loathe to suggest, but you seem in danger of paralysis here, with inertia becoming the end result?

I think you are over complicating a relatively low cost straightforward job and in danger of selling it off in a few months as a ' project' cheaply - then resenting the nerd who sorts it quickly & returns it to the road.
I know- I have been that git very many times. Illness and a bad back currently stops me PM'ing you with a lowball offer!

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Grasp the nettle. It'll not hurt- much!
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#54 OFFLINE   spartacus

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:57 AM

I'm with NB on this. It would be nice to read about your escapades fitting a nos engine but as that's not going to happen now just forget it and move on.
From what I can tell in the original few posts it only needs a head gasket. It can't be more than an easy weekends work.
Then you'll be able to show it at Pebble Beach, as it'll be a matching numbers car!
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#55 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:19 AM

I've just re read all of this, and don't understand why you have spent months pontificating about a new engine, without even removing the head?
I assumed you couldn't get it off with the engine in the car, but your pics show it to be accessible, and you've done all the hard work clearing space around it?

I'm loathe to suggest, but you seem in danger of paralysis here, with inertia becoming the end result?

 

Absolutely and entirely. For the most part I'm in the dark here - no workshop manuals, no experience with this engine at all, no experience removing an OHC head and making the car work again, lots of life stress. A cheap NOS engine as a sealed unit was very compelling - but then I had to find funds for it (see life stress), then pay for it, then get it, and then they fucked it all up anyway.

When I took it on I shamefully had assumed all Twingo 1s were OHV and it'd been a weekend's work to swap a gasket...


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#56 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 03:10 PM

You want to buy an engine because you don't know how to take the head off? Or am I missing something?

There must be a HBoL for it, late 5, Clio or summit. Several here will know.

It can't be that complicated, surely? Tdc it, and start undoing? What's the worst......?
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#57 OFFLINE   RichardK

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 03:23 PM

I'm not quite that mad. A whole new engine for £450 delivered made a lot of sense compared to hours of stripping down, £200 in costs minimum for gaskets, belts, tensioners etc. and still having 120,000km/miles mixed on it.

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#58 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 03:55 PM

Is it really £200 for those parts? For an old Clio engine?

And if you changed the engine, surely the alt belt too, and a new clutch make make sense? Maybe engine mount rubbers, rad looking a little sad?....

It's a cheap car. Keep the costs down. Take the head off, get it checked/ sorted then get a mobile mechanic to refit. It'll cost you less than a new engine and its his risk if he fouls up. A sorted runner, for a lot less moolah.

Unless you want that lowball offer now?
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#59 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 04:01 PM

Quick EBay search shows HBol at £6 posted, head set at £18 posted, timing belt set also around £18. That's just over £42.

Save your money,( use a good mobile mechanic for the bits that worry you) and sort what you have, not what you want.

Then enjoy the car and save up for a later engine swop , if you then need to.
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#60 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 04:23 PM

I might poke around later and see what data I have on the Twingo


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