For Sale Less modern laguna.. For SALE! Terrible price, £200, you have until monday at 9am to stake a claim!

[oldcars]

Injector seal? Just a guess don't know much about these engines.

[SiC]

Uh-oh.

 

Seals aren't supposed to be difficult to replace ... if you can get the injectors out that is. I'm sure one of the resident pro mechanics on here will advise further (hopefully not just scrap it!).

 

Also don't put your hands anywhere near there when its running if its pissing out high pressure fluids!

[Kiltox]

They’ll be a BASTARD to remove.

 

Looks like it’s been doing it for a while - string up the dodgy bastard that sold you it I reckon

[SiC]

Fire burn it with fire.

Not helpful i know.

Given the amount of oil and filthy muck around there, it probably would go up quite well!

[beko1987]

It doesnt seem to be under high pressure, just little droplets in time with the engine rotation.

 

I've spent the last half an hour reading alot of scare stories on various forums too about removing the injectors, and if it's not that then it's the camcover gasket etc... Then they fix it and the camshaft pulley broke or the engine fell out...

 

Anyone got a car they want to sell that wouldn't mind selling it on a trusted shitter payment scheme?

[Kiltox]

Just drive it - I drove a vectra with the same issue for ages

 

At some point the crud will seal it back up again

[SiC]

Yes I think this is going to be this cars death knell. Quick read around reminded me why this engine is so hated.

 

This thread is a good example of this: http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/14-engines/156790-injector-seal-inlet-replacement-2-2dci.html

 

Basically seems that:

Removing the injectors is a gamble if they come out or break - as the same with most modern diesels. If you do get them out, you need to clean up the bore otherwise it'll leak again, plus need to replace the copper seal at the bottom - no doubt also filthy and clogged up. Once you've done all that, you need to replace the injector bolts as they're stretch bolts and critical on the torque settings (6Nm) and incredibly easy to strip the threads.

 

Once you've done all that, the engine will probably find another more creative way to blow itself up.

[Kiltox]

Drive it. It’ll be fine*

 

*kiltox’s dodgy motor advice plc takes no responsibility for your inevitable death etc

[SiC]

Also what is going on with the pipe going into Injectors 2? (I assume the high pressure pipe)

[beko1987]

Yes I think this is going to be this cars death knell. Quick read around reminded me why this engine is so hated.

 

This thread is a good example of this: http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/14-engines/156790-injector-seal-inlet-replacement-2-2dci.html

 

Basically seems that:

Removing the injectors is a gamble if they come out or break - as the same with most modern diesels. If you do get them out, you need to clean up the bore otherwise it'll leak again, plus need to replace the copper seal at the bottom - no doubt also filthy and clogged up. Once you've done all that, you need to replace the injector bolts as they're stretch bolts and critical on the torque settings (6Nm) and incredibly easy to strip the threads.

 

Once you've done all that, the engine will probably find another more creative way to blow itself up.

That's uncanny, I'm on page 5 of that thread right now!

 

So it *could* be as simple as replacing the gaskets, and new injector seals which TBH aren't expensive... If it was just oil I'd believe that too, but the smoke form the 2nd one means the metal lower washer is probably gubbed, and that worries me a bit

 

But then there's everything else it needs! TBH it's been in the back of my mind to just drive it over winter and sort something else out next year, that plan might still be a go-er... Will still buy a new battery on pay day as that's annoying, and I'll keep the old battery in the shed to lob back on when it goes for scrap/it's new home and keep the new one...

 

Anyone want to swap? The interior is nice...

[Datsuncog]

Anyone got a car they want to sell that wouldn't mind selling it on a trusted shitter payment scheme?

 

Absolutely.

 

But it's a Laguna.

[beko1987]

Absolutely.

 

But it's a Laguna.

But does it have the 2.2?

 

Does Chris still have his skoda?

[Datsuncog]

But does it have the 2.2?

 

Does Chris still have his skoda?

 

Nah, it's the 1.8. Oh, and it's not starting.

 

And it's in Northern Ireland.

 

But I certainly wouldn't mind selling it on a trusted shitter payment scheme! One Milky Way as downpayment, two Freddo Frogs a month for 24 months, with a family-size Caramac as final settlement.

 

I should be so lucky...    

 

 

Also... Chris does still have his Skoda after sacking off the Alfa, though I'm not sure if the Chris with the Skoda that you're thinking of is the same Chris with the Skoda that I'm thinking of...?

[beko1987]

Six_Cylinder Chris.

 

Half tempted to lob a new gasket set on it though and see what happens... If it lasts until payday that is.

 

But it's nice to have a plan B

[SiC]

Which gaskets? If intake then it's supposed to be a pretty big job.

[beko1987]

It's a combined rocker cover/manifold gasket apparently, common to break up too. Which may be where the oil is coming from, then gubbed injector seals is causing the air flow to blow the oil around.

 

So it's the sort of job I need to buy everything for first then attempt to have a go at! But if it's not that then who knows!

 

Either way, I'll buy it a battery, I bet I'll get starting issues soon...

 

Luckily*, we are moving bank providers and I set up an account with first direct to replace our lloyds one (got £130 free for switching), and it comes with an overdraft so I may have the means to buy another car and just not bother too much with this when it starts to get needy. Everyone has always said don't get attached to it, and I haven't!

 

Will probably get £100 for it at ASM anyway, so a bit of cash back! I could even break it if the interior would sell, but that's a distant plan C at the moment!

[Datsuncog]

Six_Cylinder Chris.

 

My Chris with the Skoda is a plastics engineer from Galway driving a 2013 Octavia, and I don't think he's got anything with six cylinders... unless he's leading a double life I don't know about.

 

But yes! Plan B. Or C. Or D...

[oldcars]

I would run it & take fire a extinguisher and breakdown cover, that way it will go for months.

[Guest Hooli]

I would run it & take fire a extinguisher and breakdown cover a warm coat, flask of tea & number of a taxi firm, that way it will go for months.

 

EFA

[beko1987]

Already got breakdown cover! Did think about carrying a bottle of water in the car from now on though...

[Dave_Q]

In theory the rocker gasket + injector washers are only a few pennies.

 

Can you see if the injector will come out easily, just undo the clamp bolt and see if it will turn or pull out?

 

If yes fix, if no then metals yard, or eBay speares and reapers for the next optimist.

 

P.S. I know that SiC has said up there that you can't reuse the bolts as they're stretch bolts, well they're not if they're only torqued to 6Nm unless they are made of dairylea.

[Eddie Honda]

[3VOM]

P.S. I know that SiC has said up there that you can't reuse the bolts as they're stretch bolts, well they're not if they're only torqued to 6Nm unless they are made of dairylea.

That puzzled me too. Plus who has a 1/8" drive fairy torque wrench that can do 6Nm accurately?

[The Moog]

Just drive it and turn the radio up. 

[SiC]

I'm only repeating what was said in that Renault Forum thread! I've seen it mentioned elsewhere too. I can check the service manual later to see what that said. However iirc, madnoel on that forum was a Renault mechanic and seems to know his way around them all.

 

You can get low torque wrenches. Will car mechanics have them? No idea. But bicycle mechanics use them all the time, as if you gorilla torque something on a carbon fibre bike frame you can crack and destroy £k of expensive frame.

[beko1987]

So I had a better look at lunchtime.

 

Took the main cover off, and the one that covers the injection pipes at the back. Peering down past the injector showed oil. Lots of oil...

 

Fired it up, and the 2nd one started chuffing. But it took a few minutes for the engine to start vibrating in rhythm before the oil started dancing.

 

So, in theory, 

 

4 of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Master-Injector-Seal-kit-7701474025/192203731752?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D3bc78ee1152f4e5fa6f64f91ac9bd729%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D130382966308&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042 (whats the big chap for?)

 

and 1 of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROCKER-CAM-COVER-GASKET-SET-FITS-MASTER-ESPACE-TRAFIC-LAGUNA-2-2-2-5-DCi-G9U-G9T/130382966308?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

 

might do the trick.

 

Providing the injectors move! It's a shame the 2nd one has a blow as the rocker cover comes off around them with the pipework removed it seems!

 

Wonder if all this will cure it's sluggishness over the last few months? 

 

I'll try and get the injectors to move first. New bolts, where might I get those from? Otherwise I'll re-use them, and possibly purchase a torque wrench capable of 6nm, unless anyone knows what 6nm is on the grunt scale?

[Dave_Q]

That puzzled me too. Plus who has a 1/8" drive fairy torque wrench that can do 6Nm accurately?

I think stretch bolts tends to get used to mean any bolts where the manufacturer specifies that they should be replaced every time.

 

In this case the thread in the head will strip way before the bolt would yield. 

 

Can show working if anyone cares.

[chaseracer]

At least the sump is never going to rust through!

 

Neither is the rest of the floorpan, by the looks...!

[Dave_Q]

6Nm is hardly anything, you will need a torque wrench. 

 

I would say you should be OK to re-use the bolts, as long as you make sure the threads are clean, preferably with a tap. 

 

 

Tinternet sez they are M6.

[panhard65]

If that is the 2.0 diesel then just scrap it as the injectors are very unlikely to come out without a puller. Then the puller will snap the injectors requiring them to be machined out £700 per injector down here. By all means give it a try incase they will come out but be careful as they break very easily then it is dead. Run it until it goes bang or the mot runs out but don't spend any more money on it.