Wheel Alignment - Gen Me Up

[Hendry]

I very strongly suspect my car needs this done.

 

First off I'll start with a stupid question, are wheel alignment and tracking the same thing?

 

I know I definitely need my wheels balanced because I'm getting a vibration through the steering wheel, but my steering wheel is also offcentre when going straight on, it's like I'm turning it slightly to the right, it's noticeable enough to bug me and I also have a bad habit of forgetting and making the steering wheel straight sometimes meaning I head for kerbs sometimes, I'm being told that a Hunter machine is the best one around, and also that laser wheel alignment is old tech now and there's now some other better way using cameras and stuff, im also hearing conflicting information between 2 and 4 wheel alignment, last time I had it done was on a 2009 Clio and the garage said they could only do 4 wheel alignment as nothing could be adjusted on the rear and it was the same for all 2wd/FWD vehicles, but going on the mk5 Golf and Jetta forums people are saying they've had 4 wheel alignment done, other stuff says 4 wheel alignment can and should be done on a Jetta because it's got multi link independent rear suspension like a mk1 Ford Focus as VW employed the guy who designed it on the Focus do do their system for the Jetta.

 

I actually have no clue as mechanicals don't interest me at all, I'm more interested in the styling, bodywork, interior, aesthetics, interior and technology of cars so stuff you can actually see, touch, notice. Can someone educate me on this, don't want a garage ripping me off saying I need or don't need something and not doing what the car actually needs done.

 

Cheers guys.

[forddeliveryboy]

The operators of the geometry-measuring equipment matter way more than how much some garage has spent on the newest-fangled gear.

 

I use string for the best results and with big rubber bushes all over the place on most moderns, the last thousandth or three of a mm is neither here nor there.

 

Wobbling steering at 50-60 is likely a front wheel out of balance, at 65-75 more likely to be a rear one. Pulling to one side or other could be a tyre, shock absorber, bush or even something slightly bent, as well as a wheel angled out of alignment in one or more planes.

[Dave_Q]

In short, tracking tends to mean the adjustment of the steering angle of the front wheels relative to each other (toe in or out angle)

 

Other wheel adjustments are available on some cars which are camber (whether/ how much the top of the wheel leans in/out towards the car body) and castor (angle the strut makes with the ground, not normally adjustable without changing parts)

 

To me a 4 wheel alignment means checking/adjusting all 3 of these on all 4 wheels.

 

In general, most cars don't have adjustable camber on the front and don't have adjustable anything on the rear. But you're still likely to get sold a 4 wheel alignment as the latest and greatest thing even if you drive and old heap and toe-in on the front is all they can adjust.

[richardmorris]

I had a full alignmnent, tracking done at feltham tyres on my x1/9. If you're localish I do recommend them, they were recommended to me by my Citroen garage- they had their sm and others done there.

 

http://www.felthamtyre.co.uk

[Split_Pin]

Laser alignment is useless on my Astra as it's too low. Peugeot Ecosse sorted it out with a better machine which I presume is a Hunter.

 

Either way, if you want your tyres to last more than 5k get it done right by a decent outfit. I had my Astra done by a supposed 'performance specialist' Extreme Performance in Whitburn. All they did was badly kerb and damage my wheels, deny it and a year later my tyres were feathered badly on the inner edges.

[Sir Snipes]

What car are we talking about specifically?

[Split_Pin]

Jetta.

[Isaac Hunt]

Unless your steering has taken a knock from a kerb or a decent pothole, then the most likeley cause of the steering wheel not being 'true straight' as the car drives is because the previous person who did the 'tracking' wheel alignment didn't do a good job.  

 

Tracking and wheel alignment can be 'one of the same' depending on how you interpret the term.  So it best to talk about toe, camber and castor.  Most of the time, we will be concerned with toe (tracking).  If your into camber adjustments and castor then that is a bit more complex.   So generally, we use the term wheel alignment to refer to tracking (toe) and introduce the term 'full wheel alignment' to cover everything inc the relationship of fronts to backs.   

 

The 'Camara' and 'Laser' alignment systems are good, if the operator is good.  Personally I use a Gunsons 'Trackrite' drive over gauge and do 'toe' myself.  Then I can fine tune to get the steering wheel straight ahead and the tracking set to parallel 'dynamically' as the car wheel rolls.

 

You can do it with string and even some wood across the face of the wheel and a tape measure, although that is static and not dynamic and a two person job..

 

First check your 'toe in' or 'toe out'.  Then (and I always have to think about this without ref to my notes) if the steering wheel is on the conk to the right and you have toe out, then adjust the ns track rod to correct both faults.  If you have toe in adjust the os track rod.  

 

When you have the correct toe in / toe out (I always go for parallel) then if the strg wheel is on the conk still, put half a turn on one track rod and half a turn the other way on the other.  Keep fine tuning until the wheels are parallel and the steering wheel straight.   

 

If it has ever been apart 'big time' ie.the steering wheel off, column to coupling off, then you would have to start again by centering the rack and reconnecting the column and then the steering wheel and then fine tune.  I hear it say that on some newer cars, the steering wheel only fits on the column in one position, but i've never had the strg wheel off anything newer than a 2003 car which was std multi spline 'old skool' style.

 

IMHO these are excellent.  Use a 'mat' for the other side.  My Dad made me a dummy trackrite out of wood, complete with chamfers, so both wheels drive up the same sized and shape object.  https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/gunson-g4008-trakrite-wheel-alignment-gauge/?da=1&TC=GS-051714008&gclid=Cj0KEQiAlsrFBRCAxcCB54XElLEBEiQA_ei0DKHcZqLIX0ndynuU4ADDsXVoVyJJORUV3KFuU-q11u8aAvXO8P8HAQ

 

You can get them off the bay for 'bargains' and for the price of a tracking job you have your own gear, check whenever you want and know that it is correct.  

[twosmoke300]

On a Jetta I'd check the rear trailing arm bushes and front console bushes before I paid for wheel alignment

[Guest Lord Sward]

alignmycar.com

[Sir Snipes]

Mk5 Golf/Jetta have independent rear suspension and is adjustable for toe and camber. We use to set them towards the lower end of the factory tolerance for camber (ie; less negative camber, more "upright") and slightly more toe-in as they tend to hammer the inside edges, leading to a worn bearing type-noise. This is especially true of any car with a sporty agenda. 

 

The front is toe adjustable but the castor and camber can moved by a very small amount by moving the sub-frame over slightly. It's a very small amount to play with but it can make the difference if it's a very minor issue the car has. 

Other factors are a tyre holding the steering wheel to one side, tyres making the car pull to one side. People say clamping the wheel straight is easy but you would be surprised what joe-public expects. 

 

Almost all complaints were people saying the car pulls to the left, I'd test drive most cars and, frankly, most cases there was nothing wrong with the car.

[Guest Lord Sward]

The Rover 75 when set-up 'correctly' feathered the edges of the rear tyres.  Only after many owners complained did dealers raise the issue with the factory.  The settings/adjustments were to be carried out with a full tank of fuel.  Nobody left their car with a full tank of fuel.. Neither were they set at the works with a full tank of fuel.  Its these little things which make all the difference.  Likewise, a knowledgeable operator and well calibrated testing equipment.

[dave21478]

I would trust a guy with an old Dunlop optical sight system who gave a fuck about things over a teenager in a fast fit garage using the newest camera system while his boss shouts at him to get a move and finish so he can get on with the next job in the queue.

 

Find somewhere recommended by others.

[red5]

Tracking - do rear wheels follow front?

 

 

 

 

Toe - are wheels parallel, or slightly pointing inwards or outwards relatively.

 

 

 

 

TOOT - overall toe when turning

 

 

 

Probably find that -  

a -something is bent

or

b -one track rod is slighly longer or shorter then its partner. They should be the same length/same amount of threads.

 

There is always a sequence of checks/adjustments/loadings that should be done.  But rarely are.

 

'I' have Dunlop optical, Sealey Laser and another one I don't know name of. Find someone who knows what they are doing.

[Guest Breadvan72]

This thread is very timely and interesting, especially as I know Jack about how cars actually work or don't work.  I have a 2004 Jaguar X Type with AWD, and just recently it has started to feel a bit skittery at the back.  When the back wheels pass over a bit of rough or holed road surface, they seem to skip or shimmy slightly to one side, just for a moment, and then the car carries on straight.  

 

I do not know if this is caused by some worn or damaged suspension parts, or by something else.  Some Googling has suggested, correctly or otherwise, that wheel alignment might cure this, but I have no clue whether this is sense or nonsense.  There is a fair amount of net chatter about uneven tyre wear on AWD X Types.

 

There is a place near me that does wheel alignment, but it is a branch of the Merityre chain, and may just be one of those places where the job is done needlessly or badly.

[stripped fred]

I had 4 wheel alignment done on my mr2 after i had the suspension changed and it made a big difference. It was quite a while ago and I've not had it done since as it doesn't feel like it needs it. I don't think it's something you have to have done every time you change the tyres but it sounds like you should get it done. I seem to remember it's not cheap to have it done properly.

[gordonbennet]

Still do my own but bought a Trackace DIY laser kit, took a bit of fathoming out first time but it works surprisingly well, it can just cope with the wheels on me Landcruiser.

 

For nearly all my life i had a thin copper pipe, well two lengths approx 8mm and 6mm bore, one a comfortable sliding fit in t'other.

I would measure between the wheels from underneath, a gentle bend in the rod meant able to reach near enough centre height points the curve going under the sump or cross member.

No it wasn't hi tec, bit it was a bloody sight better (as said above) than some disinterested youth with £2k's worth of lasers.

 

If you have a vehicle that pulls to one side its worth measuring the wheelbase both sides as well as checking bushes etc.

 

You can suss whether you have toe in or out to some degree by running one wheel along continuous white painted lines, these lines have less grip than decent tarmac in the wet so if you run the nearside wheels along the line and the vehicle pulls right it points to toe out, confirm that by running the offside wheels along a suitable line and see if it pulls left, you're not looking to fight the car for control just a gentle pull one way or the other.

 

One other thing now i've had a kip, it's often illuminating to follow your own car along undulating/bumpy roads and watch how it behaves, sometimes things (damping faults especially) become obvious.

[Hendry]

There's a slight clank from both front and rear but it's more metallic than the knocking that fucked drop links and worn bushes make, and it passed a very stringent taxi test with these noises before so anything knackered would've failed it. The shock absorber rubber bump stops need replaced along with the top covers, not an mot fail but the rubber is squishy and spongey and I can tear small chunks off with my fingers so not as solid and supple as it should be so I'll probably get this done and a supension and steering component check done before I get wheel alignment done anyway. If it wears the shitty Barum tyres out all the better as it's an excuse for decent grippy tyres that don't cause wheel spin in 3rd gear and the traction control continually kicking in that I can't justify the expense of replacing while they are still newish and not worn.

[rainagain]

 

 

The 'Camara' and 'Laser' alignment systems are good, if the operator is good.  Personally I use a Gunsons 'Trackrite' drive over gauge and do 'toe' myself.  Then I can fine tune to get the steering wheel straight ahead and the tracking set to parallel 'dynamically' as the car wheel rolls.

 

  

 

This is what I use, it does work well but it can be a bit of a faff driving the car forwards and backwards over it. One problem I've found on cars with power steering is the steering doesn't easily fall into its natural position whilst driving back and forward the short distance on a driveway for example. To stop me wrongly adjusting it, I take the car for a drive first and note where the steering wheel naturally sits and make sure it sits there whilst I drive over the gauge. 

[Des]

Well look at what I scored from a charity shop yesterday, pure sex from the Eighties, two strapon bars allow tracking checks with a tape measure. I've briefly perused the half A4 instruction sheet and now consider myself an authority on all wheel alignment matters.

 

 

 

[beko1987]

Now I have 2 balanced tyres on the front I've noticed a pull more on the xantia this morning!

 

Luckily our local tyre place is run by old guys who care, even if their tyre prices aren't as cheap as the Internet. I'll take it round next month

[beko1987]

Or ill go see des now he's an expert on these things

[Des]

Temperate weather has roused my philanthropic nature, have this.

 

 

This isn't just data, I think it's pretty close to a definitive list of proper cars. Whilst I'm loathe to challenge the Junkman doctrine, anyone driving a 'car' lacking inclusion above needs to take a good look at themselves.

[Sir Snipes]

I use to work with an all-singing, all-dancing Hunter Hawkeye and it was an unreliable piece of shit. The older DH600 (IIRC) was much more solid.

[Hendry]

I was in National Tyres earlier getting a puncture repaired and they had a "Supertracker" wheel alignment machine that looked very similar to the one in the workshop at Arnold Clark when I started there nearly 11 years ago.

[Isaac Hunt]

This is what I use, it does work well but it can be a bit of a faff driving the car forwards and backwards over it. One problem I've found on cars with power steering is the steering doesn't easily fall into its natural position whilst driving back and forward the short distance on a driveway for example. To stop me wrongly adjusting it, I take the car for a drive first and note where the steering wheel naturally sits and make sure it sits there whilst I drive over the gauge. 

We have adopted a similar method.  

 

Based on where the wheel 'naturally sets' on a test drive will determine where I make my adjustment.

 

If the steering wheel sits dead straight then I make equal adj on each track rod.  if the steering is slightly to the wonk I make a larger adj on one track rod compared to the other.  Which side the is give the largest share of the adjustment is determined by toe in or toe out and left hand down or right hand down.  I always have to look at my notes and think it through.

 

I always roll the car over the guage and use a chock to stop it.  

[Sir Snipes]

This thread is very timely and interesting, especially as I know Jack about how cars actually work or don't work.  I have a 2004 Jaguar X Type with AWD, and just recently it has started to feel a bit skittery at the back.  When the back wheels pass over a bit of rough or holed road surface, they seem to skip or shimmy slightly to one side, just for a moment, and then the car carries on straight.  

 

I do not know if this is caused by some worn or damaged suspension parts, or by something else.  Some Googling has suggested, correctly or otherwise, that wheel alignment might cure this, but I have no clue whether this is sense or nonsense.  There is a fair amount of net chatter about uneven tyre wear on AWD X Types.

 

There is a place near me that does wheel alignment, but it is a branch of the Merityre chain, and may just be one of those places where the job is done needlessly or badly.

 

Saw a couple of them with failed bushes in the arms labelled "Track Rod" in that image. It's actually a lower lateral link but whatever.

That's a Jetta apparently but they're essentially the same design.

[Guest Breadvan72]

Now I have 2 balanced tyres on the front I've noticed a pull more on the xantia this morning!

 

Luckily our local tyre place is run by old guys who care, even if their tyre prices aren't as cheap as the Internet. I'll take it round next month

 

 

Which place?  I may go there.

[Guest Breadvan72]

Saw a couple of them with failed bushes in the arms labelled "Track Rod" in that image. It's actually a lower lateral link but whatever.

That's a Jetta apparently but they're essentially the same design.

 

 

Thanks, that could be mucho helpful!

[Hendry]

Saw a couple of them with failed bushes in the arms labelled "Track Rod" in that image. It's actually a lower lateral link but whatever.

That's a Jetta apparently but they're essentially the same design.

Suspension on my car looks mega complicated to me who doesn't have a good mechanical knowledge, plenty of bits to get worn and need replacing, wish I had they money to just replace all the front and rear suspension bushes, droplinks, track rod ends, etc so it was like it was when it left the factory, because guarantees even if they are decent enough nick to pass an MOT and not be picked up on a service as worn or split or whatever I'd bet new ones would totally transform it and it'd be like driving a brand new car.