Older vehicles face £10 'toxicity' charge in central London

[Sheefag]

Sadiq Khan is a labour Mayor.

 

I don't know any small business owner, stupid enough to be seduced by identity politics, nor believe any promises made by politicians.

Generally, if you run a small business, you vote for whoever will inflict the least harm.

 

Here a lovely glimpse at who makes money from the Congestion Charge;-

 

TfL's annual report for 2014–15 shows that revenues from the congestion charge were £257.4m over the financial year, representing 8.5% of TfL's annual revenues.

Nearly one-third of this was spent on the cost of running the toll system, at £80.7 million.

Once other charges were deducted, the congestion charge brought in an annual operating net income of £172.5m for TfL

That's very nearly £85 million that someone's done very nicely out of.

 

Let's take a look at the top salaries at Transport For London next;-

 

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/london-transport/the-30-tfl-employees-who-earn-more-than-150000-thats-more-than-the-pms-salary/11680.article

The 30 TfL employees who EARN MORE THAN £150,000 (that's more than the PM's salary)

25 January 2016 | By Shruti Tripathi Chopra

 

Transport for London’s data transparency report showed that the public sector body’s senior staff earn more than £150,000 annually.

The highest-paid of them all is TfL commissioner Mike Brown whose salary band is between £345,000 and £349,999.

What’s also striking about the list is that out of the 30 highest-paid TfL staff, only four are women.

Here’s a full list of the 30 TfL employees who earn more than the David Cameron.

 

1. Mike Brown, TfL commissioner

Salary band: £285,000 - £289,999

Performance Award: £75,000 - £79,999

Benefit in Kind: £2,000 - £2,999

 

2. Leon Daniels, managing director - surface transport, TfL

Salary band: £275,000 - £279,999

Performance Award: £70,000 - £74,999

Benefit in Kind: £2,000 - £2,999

 

3. Stephen Allen, managing director – finance, TfL

Salary band: £270,000 - £274,999

Performance Award: £70,000 - £74,999

Benefit in Kind: £1 - £999

4. Carl Devlin, programme director, TfL

Salary band: £265,000 - £269,999

Performance Award: £25,000 - £29,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

5. David Waboso, director of capital programmes, TfL      

Salary band: £250,000 - £254,999

Performance Award: £35,000 - £39,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

6. Nicholas Brown, chief operating officer, TfL

Salary band: £250,000 - £254,999

Performance Award: N/A

Benefit in Kind: NIL

 

7. Howard Carter, general counsel, TfL

Salary band: £235,000 - £239,999

Performance Award: £55,000 - £59,999

Benefit in Kind: £2,000 - £2,999

 

8. Vernon Everitt, managing director - customer experience, marketing & communications, TfL

Salary band: £225,000 - £229,999

Performance Award: £60,000 - £64,999

Benefit in Kind: £2,000 - £2,999

 

9. Michele Dix, managing director of planning, TfL

Salary band: £220,000 - £224,999

Performance Award: £50,000 - £54,999

Benefit in Kind: £2,000 - £2,999

 

10. Stuart Harvey, programme director, TfL               

Salary band: £200,000 - £204,999              

Performance Award: £50,000 - £54,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999                

 

11. Tricia Riley, HR director, TfL       

Salary band: £185,000 - £189,999              

Performance Award: £30,000 - £34,999

Benefit in Kind: £1 - £999

 

12. Stephen White, operations director, TfL

Salary band: £180,000 - £184,999              

Performance Award: N/A           

Benefit in Kind: NIL

 

13. Gareth Powell, director of strategy & service development, TfL

Salary band: £180,000 - £184,999              

Performance Award: £30,000 - £34,999 

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999                

 

14. Shashi Verma, director of customer experience, TfL

Salary band: £180,000 - £184,999              

Performance Award: £35,000 - £39,999 

Benefit in Kind: £1 - £999

 

15. Garrett Emmerson, chief operating officer - surface transport, TfL

Salary band: £180,000 - £184,999              

Performance Award: £30,000 - £34,999 

Benefit in Kind: £1 - £999            

 

16. Howard Smith, chief operating officer, TfL

Salary band: £175,000 - £179,999

Performance Award: £30,000 - £34,999 

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

17. Paul Thomas, head of engineering, TfL

Salary band: £170,000 - £174,999

Performance Award: £20,000 - £24,999 

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

18. Martin Rowark, director of commercial line upgrades, TfL

Salary band: £170,000 - £174,999

Performance Award: N/A           

Benefit in Kind: NIL

 

19. Michael Flynn, head of programme, TfL

Salary band: £160,000 - £164,999

Performance Award: £10,000 - £14,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

20. Stephen Field, director of pensions & reward, TfL

Salary band: £160,000 - £164,999

Performance Award: £25,000 - £29,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

21. Andrew Pollins, chief finance officer, TfL

Salary band: £160,000 - £164,999

Performance Award: £25,000 - £29,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

22. Andrew Quincey, director of commercial, TfL

Salary band: £160,000 - £164,999

Performance Award: £20,000 - £24,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

23. Sarah Atkins, commercial director rail & underground, TfL

Salary band: £160,000 - £164,999              

Performance Award: £25,000 - £29,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

24. Steven Townsend, chief information officer, TfL             

Salary band: £160,000 - £164,999              

Performance Award: £20,000 - £24,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

25. Michael Strzelecki, business transformation director, TfL

Salary band: £160,000 - £164,999              

Performance Award: £20,000 - £24,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

26. Christopher Macleod, marketing director, TfL

Salary band: £155,000 - £159,999              

Performance Award: £30,000 - £34,999

Benefit in Kind: NIL

 

27. Nigel Holness, operations director, TfL

Salary band: £150,000 - £154,999              

Performance Award: £25,000 - £29,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

28. Andrea Clarke, director of legal, TfL       

Salary band: £150,000 - £154,999              

Performance Award: £25,000 - £29,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

29. Simon Kilonback, director of group treasury, TfL

Salary band: £150,000 - £154,999              

Performance Award: £25,000 - £29,999

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

 

30. Graeme Craig, director of commercial development, TfL

Salary band: £150,000 - £154,999              

Performance Award: £20,000 - £24,999 

Benefit in Kind: £1,000 - £1,999

[forddeliveryboy]

That about sums it up - pay your 'green' taxes and if they're not paying for a list of people like that above, it's paying for old houses to have pellet boilers installed as well as the fuel to run them - then a bit of profit too. Completely brazen transfer of money from the poor to those who can afford £25k+ up front.

 

RHI is its name, especially generous in Northern Ireland. It's not as if wood pellets are all that environmentally friendly - a toxic plume from the flue with mucho fossil fuel made in the production of the fuel and then distributing it, frequently from America to Europe.

 

 

https://youtu.be/Ek_fIoeBRpI?t=104

[Station]

There's no doubt about it - my 21 year old Toyota Diesel and 18 year old Toyota Petrol do create more emissions than a brand new car, despite their modest shortcomings.

 

Two questions however. (And sorry if they've been dealt with already in the thread)

 

1) With thousands of cars still sat at Thurleigh from the scrappage scheme with no apparent plan for them, why would I trust any new scheme?

 

2) Where is the magical switch in my current cars that stops them from belching out intolerable levels of Carbon/NOx at the weekend or after 6pm?

 

I think it's OK to pollute after peak hours as that is when there a small percent less cars are about on the roads.

Also car manufacturers 1/16'd pollution from cars overnight between 2006 and 2007 on new year's eve (even identical ones).

 

Like electric cars, it would be a good idea to introduce kei-car styling admissions into their scheme, cars with engines smaller than 1000cc and under a certain length.

A single person driving round in Q7's, when you could pilot a single seater Twizy-esque vehicle into work. Why haven't they offered incentives to specialist car manufacturers to do this - we used to be good at that type of thing (Reliant, Morgan etc).

 

We can all agree internal combustion engines are awful, it's just the half baked way they apply these lazy implementations that are thinly disguised as benefiting the environment.

[Rave]

Annoyingly I can't find the article now, but I read yesterday that private cars make up just 5% of traffic in the Congestion Charge zone. Presumably a relatively small proportion of those are pre-Euro 4. I guess private hire vehicles make up a larger proportion, but many of them are Priuses or other hybrids, and the ones that aren't are going to be post-2006, I'm pretty sure TfL won't 'plate' a ten year old car. Can't see there being all that many old vans and lorries still rattling around either- there will be a few, but not many. So really this is pure gesture politics, it's going to make a miniscule difference to air quality in Central London.

[Station]

What do TFL do beyond congestion and other charging - do they manage the contracting of road works out as well and hiring consultants to manage bus numbers? That is a lot of directors. That's on top of subsidies as well, assuming they're a quango (of course they are).

[castros_bro]

Annoyingly I can't find the article now, but I read yesterday that private cars make up just 5% of traffic in the Congestion Charge zone. Presumably a relatively small proportion of those are pre-Euro 4. I guess private hire vehicles make up a larger proportion, but many of them are Priuses or other hybrids, and the ones that aren't are going to be post-2006, I'm pretty sure TfL won't 'plate' a ten year old car. Can't see there being all that many old vans and lorries still rattling around either- there will be a few, but not many. So really this is pure gesture politics, it's going to make a miniscule difference to air quality in Central London.

 

If you are interested and want some historical pollution information for London have a look,  select the pollutant, in this case PM10s, and check days it exceeded the limits and go through the years.  It shows, using these criteria that PM10s have reduced over the years. You can select other pollutants and different criteria.  London is not the only tying increase air quality and justifying it using this type of data which generally shows diesels engines to be a contribution so trying to limit their access. Oslo, Lisbon, Paris, Madrid, Athens, Mexico City and the Motor City Stuttgart. Some people are taking it seriously and not twiddling with a extra euros here and there  The German Bundesrat has voted to ban new gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicles from EU roads starting in 2030.

 

https://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/publicstats.asp?mapview=PM10b&statyear=2007&MapType=Google&region=0&la_id=&objective=All&zoom=9&lat=51.4750&lon=-0.119824&VenueCode=

[GoGently]

I'm all in favour of renewables, but I don't put our failure to adopt them on a more widespread basis down to some grand conspiracy by vested interests, but more to the immense practical difficulties of implementing it while keeping the lights on. I take it you've seen this?

 

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

 

As I post wind is contributing over 5GW, and it was up to 7GW at one point last week, but I regularly see it as low as 1GW when the wind isn't blowing. Unless battery tech improves so rapidly that it becomes feasible for everyone to have a Tesla Power Wall equivalent in their house, the problem of storing the intermittent energy produced by renewables is simply massive. We would literally need to build about another 20 Dinorwigs to even come close to being able to do it at this point in time, I'd say.

 

On the question of urban pollution, I honestly think there would be a lot more to be gained from moving over to electric lorries and buses than private cars and taxis. LPG taxis would be a good shout in the shorter term. TfL claim they're going to stop buying diesel buses next year...hmm. My old company actually runs the first 'all electric route', the 312 from South Croydon to Norwood Junction. I'm not up to date with how well it runs now, but the last time it was my job to stand around in Croydon Garage supervising, the electric buses were only good for 3 of the pretty short rounders before needing a 2 hour top-up; you might have got 4 out of them with a sympathetic driver. They were lovely to drive, apparently, but without seriously massive investment in charger infrastructure, electric buses simply aren't going to be up to the task of running a long route from the suburbs to the centre and back. You'd literally need to have inductive chargers built into every terminus so the bus could have some charged whacked into it when the driver parks up to have any chance at all with current tech, I'd have said. An electric lorry going from drop to drop with a longer spell for loading/unloading each time could be a lot more practical though.

Back when I was at School a teacher converted a Citroen 2CV to battery power So Go forth & Modify!  Just recently I've noticed  there is an upsurge of commuters using old milk floats, parking them at railway stations next to the big city slickers Mercs etc.

[JohnDeere]

This, and ULEZ, makes me annoyed - because it disproportionately impacts the least well-off people with older motors (i.e. most car owners in central London) - irrespective of whether they actually drive them much or not.

 

There are hardly any private cars driven in the C-Charge zone. I've tried counting - you might see 3 or 4 on a half-hour walk. So it's fair to say private cars are not causing the pollution. It is Sadiq's vast fleet of diesel buses, diesel taxis, the ridiculously-large number of mini-cabs (admittedly most now switching to petrol hybrds) and vans and trucks.

 

Under ULEZ, if I drive my pre-Adblue diesel 50 yards inside the zone one evening to pop to a restaurant that'll cost me £20 or whatever. But a van, taxi, bus, lorry driving around the zone all day, every day, will pay nothing so long as it has a tank of pig's piss.

 

Sadiq should be banning all diesel delivery vans and taxis, forcing TFL to switch to electric/hydrogen buses, and charging all mini cabs an annual £5000 fee if he really wants to cut pollution.

[Uncle Jimmy]

Got a £65 fine from tfl this morning, for 15 seconds stuck in a box junction. Doing a job up there for not much more than the minimum wage.

If you leave the fine for more than a couple of weeks you pay £130. Balls to London and balls to it's people.

[DodgeRover]

Got a £65 fine from tfl this morning, for 15 seconds stuck in a box junction. Doing a job up there for not much more than the minimum wage.

If you leave the fine for more than a couple of weeks you pay £130. Balls to London and balls to it's people.

Tell them it was in the control of the American Embassy at the time, they have a couple of million oweing in unpaid c charge, parking etc fines

[Sheefag]

In all of my excitement at the impending T-Charge, I'd completely forgotten about the little treat that Westminster City Council has in store from April.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38782211

 

Westminster Council to trial diesel parking charge

 

Westminster is to become the first London borough to levy an additional charge on drivers of diesel cars.

 

The council plans to charge diesel car owners 50% extra to park in and around Marylebone from 3 April.

 

The council said its F-zone parking charge would apply to visitors to Marylebone but resident permits would remain unchanged.

 

Diesel car owners will pay an extra £2.45 per hour for a maximum stay of up to four hours.

 

The zone - which includes Baker Street, the University of Westminster and Madame Tussauds - will use number plate recognition to identify diesel cars from other types of vehicle.

 

It comes ahead of City Hall's so-called T-charge, which will see the owners of older, more polluting cars face an extra £10 fee for entering the congestion charge zone later this year.

 

Westminster council said it was launching the pilot scheme in response to residents' concerns about air quality.

 

It added nitrogen dioxide (NO2) in Marylebone often exceeded recommended healthy levels, as did levels of particulate matter (PM) which cause respiratory diseases such as Asthma.

 

Local resident Stephen Quinn, who has lived in Marylebone with his family for 20 years, said air quality in the area "was definitely much worse" than in the past.

 

"We are extremely concerned about the long-term effect that this pollution is having on us, and more importantly, our children," he said.

"We desperately hope that this pilot will go towards making people realise that things must change"

 

 

[Eddie Honda]

WCC, the biggest bunch of chiselling bastards going. Grrrr.

[Station]

Apart from using a James Bind style swivelling numberpkate (UK to PL), just avoid London if you don't live/work there. It's just not that good.

[Pillock]

Just don't park. It's cheaper to pay someone minimum wage to circle around the area all day in a Perkins powered Maestro.

[Sir Snipes]

Apart from using a James Bind style swivelling numberpkate (UK to PL), just avoid London if you don't live/work there. It's just not that good.

 

I live in Gravesend and occasionally work or visit London. My partner and I briefly considered moving into London but now I absolutely hate the idea and if anything would like to move further out into Kent. London is okay to visit for evenings and nights out here and there but I would never want to live there.

[ChinaTom]

As a resident, I will get a 90% discount for the Jag. So not really that much of a cost. But this is not the Way forward. Black cabs are the main problem; and without wishing to offend any bus drivers here, the standard of driving is often shocking. Lane blocking, no box junction discipline etc. I had to drive to Croydon from Waterloo today - 20 minutes idling due to bus behaviour.

[BorniteIdentity]

Just don't park. It's cheaper to pay someone minimum wage to circle around the area all day in a Perkins powered Maestro.

 

Pretty sure that Pimlico Plumbing actually do this!!

[Pillock]

As a resident, I will get a 90% discount for the Jag. So not really that much of a cost. But this is not the Way forward. Black cabs are the main problem; and without wishing to offend any bus drivers here, the standard of driving is often shocking. Lane blocking, no box junction discipline etc. I had to drive to Croydon from Waterloo today - 20 minutes idling due to bus behaviour.

I'm on a bus right now in that London, and yes the driver's road manners are shocking. But everyone else's attitudes to the bus are equally awful. Everyone is just being an arse.

 

On the plus side, I got the front seat up top so I feel like a winner.

 

[DodgeRover]

Just don't park. It's cheaper to pay someone minimum wage to circle around the area all day in a Perkins powered Maestro.

Many a true word said in jest -

I've been in sites in London where they have had one man employed to keep the vans moving around the 2 hr maximum stay bays and keep the parking fees paid....

[Guest Breadvan72]

Bus driving in a crowded city is a hard job, but nowadays the drivers get ten minutes training and are paid a quid, and don't have a conductor to deal with the punters, so the drivers are grumpy and not very skilled.

[AMC Rebel]

Also busses are surrounded on all sides by loony death-wish cyclists.  Another job I am very glad I don't have to do, and another city I'm glad I don't have to live in/near.

[lisbon_road]

I recently followed a Blue Star bus doing about 35mph, and a cyclist was following in the middle of the lane, so in the middle of the bus, unbelievably close.  If the bus had stopped at all sharply - and these things have ABS now - he'd have been splatted on the back of it. 

 

And as I am a very frequent cyclist, I really object to this as it gives all a bad name.......

 

Getting a bit off topic here, but it did really annoy me. 

[Junkman]

Scrap the sub 50cc moped registration and licence bollox.

Do it like other countries do it - all you need is being 16 years old and have an insurance tag on the rear mudguard.

Not only would mopeds help to avoid a lot of pollution and congestion during the daily commute, they are also immense fun

in a country where filtering is permitted/tolerated. In Holland they are even allowed to use most bicycle paths.

[Eddie Honda]

In Holland they are even allowed to use most bicycle paths.

And they teararse along them on at OMGKM/H on their de-rizzed 'peds. Continental 50s are sooooo slow in standard trim.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I can't actually think of a worse jo

 

Bus driving in a crowded city is a hard job, but nowadays the drivers get ten minutes training and are paid a quid, and don't have a conductor to deal with the punters, so the drivers are grumpy and not very skilled.

 

I can't actually think of a worse job tbh.

[OwdChina]

Came across this little snippet today, it's a long read but also an eye opener if you've 20mins or so to digest the contents.

 

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/11/the-social-costs-of-air-pollution-from-cars-in-the-uk/

[tooSavvy]

^^^ ... buy shares = in hayfields!

 

good read

 

TS

[RayMK]

Good read but, as the author points out, based on shaky science (his only source of formal data) and a creative use of statistics (by organisations providing the baseline data).  Common sense suggests that if you supply the human body with a poor quality diet, poor quality air and a sedentary lifestyle, health will suffer.  I have great sympathy with those scientists and statisticians who are trying to research and make sense of a field with so many variables and uncertainties and cannot see how they can operate in an independant manner whilst being urged to follow certain paths of investigation by politicians - who, in many cases provide the funds. Overall, life expectancy has improved. Obviously, for some groups life expectancy will not have improved as much as the national average, but we do seem to be stumbling along in generally the right direction.  It is almost inevitable, given the nature of the data and the research 'climate' that we cannot really explain why in cold scientific terms.  

[cros]

And they teararse along them on at OMGKM/H on their de-rizzed 'peds. Continental 50s are sooooo slow in standard trim.

Continental 18cc's are slower still but a diesel Lohmann for 'smoking' around the city would be ideal.

[UltraWomble]

Slowly we are being pushed into EV's.

 

Not overly sure for who's benefit (Polar Bears? Asthmatic Orphans? The Gov't?)

 

The Gov seem to be banking on a battery breakthrough happening sometime in the next few years that will double the range of EV's whilst enabling a recharge in the same time that it takes to brim an 80L DERV tank. I cant see that happening myself.

Do we need to alter our driving habits perhaps? Last week we went away on holiday - so I had the C8 ( a non FAP Penguin Killing dirty diesel) loaded up with 5 adult sized people, 4 bikes on a bike rack, and the boot utterly rammed with everything that my wife deems necessary for a week away. And for the week it was pretty essential to have a vehicle that size. We covered just under 700 miles and I still have over a quarter of a tank of diesel left.

However, for the rest of the year most days only 3 or 4 seats are needed and hardly any boot space.

Do we perhaps look at a system of rental cars? I can rent a huge car for a week if I need it, the rest of the time I rent a smaller car. This rental replaces the current taxation system and is based on vehicle size, economy and miles covered.

 

I agree on getting more people onto 2 wheels, be they bicycles, mopeds, motorbikes and even EV bikes.

Parking issues would be reduced, traffic congestion reduced and people may actually develop better road skills and manners.

 

Me? I'd happily rock in a Twizzy to work if they were cheap enough.