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Autobahns under threat


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#1 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:08 PM

Elections are upcoming in Germany, so it's time to dig up the old discussion about a speed limit on Autobahns.

Please help Autobahns not becoming that purpose defying nonsense British Motorways are by signing this petition:

 

http://www.130-danke-nein.de/

 

Please note, no speed limit doesn't mean everyone (except PShome) is belting along at 130 OMGMPH,

which wouldn't be possible anyway, given the traffic density we have nowadays.

 

But whoever has ever travelled German Autobahns will agree that not having to constantly watch the speedometer

while driving at an adjusted speed, avoids a lot of stress and enables one to focus on what's going on ahead.

Driving at appropriate speeds also helps avoiding congestions.

 


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#2 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:25 PM

Imagine if they went for the autobahn system in the U.K., people would just go silly, taking their Audi A4s to 130mph for the laugh. It just wouldn't work here, there's too many 'silly' people.
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#3 OFFLINE   Lacquer Peel

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:40 PM

The unofficial motorway speed limit of 80ish is plenty.
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#4 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:43 PM

Imagine if they went for the autobahn system in the U.K., people would just go silly, taking their Audi A4s to 130mph for the laugh. It just wouldn't work here, there's too many 'silly' people.

 

I bet you anything the amount of silly people is higher in Germany, but they simply go under among all others.

Also, everyone hitting the Autobahn system for the first time gives it the welly.

Once the novelty has worn off after ten minutes or so, they drive like everyone else does.

 

Was fun to observe that effect on Mr Conelrad last year...

 

The unofficial motorway speed limit of 80ish is plenty.

 

No, it's ridiculous.


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#5 OFFLINE   pilninggas

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:44 PM

I'm amazed in this world of litigation and liability that the autobahns have managed to stay, in quite a number of places, unrestricted and even where restricted no one cares.

 

I remember being on a bit near Mainz, with a 130kmh limit, doing about 120mph when a police car when past at probably 155mph and not one fuck was given by anyone.

 

Even if a blanket limit was brought in, it seems culturally, it's the one rule krauts wont  be too fussed about obeying.


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#6 OFFLINE   HillmanImp

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:14 PM

it's the one rule krauts wont  be too fussed about obeying.

 

That and smoking in bars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and not invading Poland


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#7 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:23 PM

The unofficial motorway speed limit of 80ish is plenty.


Not entirely unofficial. If you have an accident and you were doing over 80mph, but the other party was under, you're automatically at fault. If both over, then its 50:50. Also bad weather lowers the speed limit too.

As Junkman said, once the novelty of flooring wears off, most people don't VMax it all the time. VMax over a reasonable distance costs a fortune in fuel, wear on tyres and stress on the whole car. Also hard work driving for extended periods at >120mph.
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#8 OFFLINE   NorfolkNWeigh

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:30 PM

As long as this doesn't encourage the UK to put limits on the M45 and M50 , it doesn't really concern me, although now I've got a nasty little 4 pot Dizzler I'm struggling to go fast enough for it to matter.
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#9 OFFLINE   barefoot

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:44 PM

I have NEVER exceeded the UK speed limit and moreover...


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#10 OFFLINE   forddeliveryboy

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:55 PM

Take responsibility away from people and they become less responsible.

Sure, English people may die on our roads in proportionally lower numbers than in other European countries but isn't most of that down to many of them being so jammed up? Standards of driving are generally low here, perhaps in part due to society at large having (with government's encouragement) grown totally selfish, zero driver education and police presence, where it exists, comprising of sitting behind a speed camera where maximum revenue is most likely to be gained.

A 70mph limit on a dangerous stretch of busy, wet motorway where badly-engineered junctions exist is even madder than the same limit through a quiet section of M6 North of Kendal, in good conditions.

Our blue roads were supposedly engineered for 110mph, there's no reason a 90mph+ limit couldn't be progressively and safely reached if we remove trucks onto railways, insist on driver education and good vehicle maintenance. Which shouldn't allow imbalanced suspension and rear brakes, with tyres worn to 1.6mm being an MoT pass.
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#11 OFFLINE   pshome

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:56 PM

A speed limit on the Autobahn? Weapon controls in the US? 

Fake news, dishonest press, so sad!


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#12 OFFLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:29 PM

Take responsibility away from people and they become less responsible.

Sure, English people may die on our roads in proportionally lower numbers than in other European countries but isn't most of that down to many of them being so jammed up? Standards of driving are generally low here, perhaps in part due to society at large having (with government's encouragement) grown totally selfish, zero driver education and police presence, where it exists, comprising of sitting behind a speed camera where maximum revenue is most likely to be gained.

A 70mph limit on a dangerous stretch of busy, wet motorway where badly-engineered junctions exist is even madder than the same limit through a quiet section of M6 North of Kendal, in good conditions.

Our blue roads were supposedly engineered for 110mph, there's no reason a 90mph+ limit couldn't be progressively and safely reached if we remove trucks onto railways, insist on driver education and good vehicle maintenance. Which shouldn't allow imbalanced suspension and rear brakes, with tyres worn to 1.6mm being an MoT pass.

 

You say driver standards here are low, yet British dash cam footage is entirely tedious! I've driven in plenty of other places (Paris and Malta spring to mind) that made British roads seem entirely stress-free.


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#13 OFFLINE   Six-cylinder

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:32 PM

I am not surprised that there is another call to reduce German Motorway speeds but I have had some great moments maxing out not particularly fast cars legally.

In 1999 I was driving a 1974 Mercedes 280CE as an everyday car and that went to 123mph as we approached the Dutch boarder and backed off.

I took my 1988 BMW 735i to Germany on a driving tour and put the hammer down but we only got to 120 mph and the gantry signs came on, I say "we" the other was my friend in his 1979 450 SEL and we had left the E28 528i Auto behind.

As Junkman says the traffic levels have risen and it seems even back in the late nineties when I batted a Ford Galaxy along at 95 mph other drivers cleared the lane for faster traffic that does not seem to happen now.

The photo is just cruising along at an easy pace!

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#14 OFFLINE   For Fiats Sake

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:32 PM

I drove on the autobahn the other year, I was in a 4x4 panda so a speed of 65mph was attained briefly before imminent pant soiling prompted a less ambitious rate of travel.

 

This thing about driving at 80mph, with the 10% over reading of most speedometers aren't we just doing 72mph anyway?

whenever I've driven to the gps speed on the sat nav, especially through 50mph average speed road works, I seem to be overtaking everything!

 

So 90 must be the new 80?


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#15 OFFLINE   Largactil

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:01 PM

I picked up one of these in Munich last August, for a jaunt down to Austria / Italy via Timmelsjoch:

 

29561572165_607e8cfdb8_k.jpg

 

Took in a decent chunk of autobahn on the way, and it was quite bizarre to be travelling (legally) at 160 mph within 30-40 minutes of picking up the keys.

 

(I think it would have gone faster, but for the limiter...#pi*stonheads #moderncarsarerubbish)

 

Once the novelty of a VMAX run had worn off, it was far better to set the cruise to 120 mph ish, and make good progress - I guess that's what the autobahn is all about, really. (Slower vehicles seemed to move out the way smartly too, most unlike the UK).

 

I, for one, hope they remain as they are.


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#16 OFFLINE   cort1977

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:35 PM

 Standards of driving are generally low here, perhaps in part due to society at large having (with government's encouragement) grown totally selfish, zero driver education and police presence, where it exists, comprising of sitting behind a speed camera where maximum revenue is most likely to be gained.
 

 

Respectfully, I disagree and I have driven extensively all around the world.   The driving standard is better in the UK than anywhere except maybe Scandinavia.   I do agree that UK drivers are getting more selfish and also the problem of looking at phones while driving is just as bad there as anywhere.


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#17 OFFLINE   Zantimisfit

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:45 PM

Respectfully, I disagree and I have driven extensively all around the world.   The driving standard is better in the UK than anywhere except maybe Scandinavia.   I do agree that UK drivers are getting more selfish and also the problem of looking at phones while driving is just as bad there as anywhere.


Driving standards are shit in Scandinavia! Try commuting in Denmark, especially Copenhagen - super aggressive combined with total lack of spatial awareness or manners. If a Dane wants to go from filter lane to outside lane they just do it and bollocks to anyone who happens to be 'en route'. Meanwhile the Swedes are mostly asleep while at the wheel and if they're not they're on the phone and steering with their knees.

Just because they make good rally drivers doesn't mean they can be trusted anywhere else.....and then you have the bicycles!!!

You tend to know where you are with Germans, whether they are going fast or not. That is my observation.

Norwegians are OK too although I will keep my eye on them!

#18 OFFLINE   Zantimisfit

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 05:10 PM

....and another thing. I've noticed in recent months that people dont stop at red lights in town any more. So when you get the green light you have wait five minutes for the traffic turning left from the other road to clear. It didn't used to be like that....

...and people are in the wrong lane half of the time as well so there's a lot of undertaking, overtaking, light flashing etc. For ****s sake WAKE UP!

I've been waiting to get this off my chest for some time as you can tell. Now I feel somehow...cleansed.

#19 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 05:15 PM

80 is plenty really, 90 at a push.

 

 

You can be the best driver in the world, but you can lose concentration. 

 

Now, I've done this before:

 

 

...well, up to the limiter (indicated 160). Bloody stupid really. What if the Astra drifted across into the outside lane?

 

Autobahns already have speed limits on many section, thank Christ. I've seen first hand the results of a high speed pile up in Germany. Not pretty.


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#20 OFFLINE   Captain Furious

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 05:46 PM

I honestly think following too closely is the number 1 problem, certainly on my commute.  People in the outside lane following a cars length behind the car infront even if its pouring with rain.  One touches the brakes momentarily, car behind panics and touches them a bit harder, 8 cars back they're doing an emergency stop.

 

There is a section of the M6 near the NEC where I get on that is4 lanes for about a mile and then narrows to 3.  There are countdown markers from half a mile to start getting out of lane 4, but guaranteed every night as soon as you get to the point where Lane 4 ends it'll be panic braking chaos, while all the selfish pricks who had to try and gain that one extra space try and force their way over to lane 3. 

 

I just go to the slow lane through that bit, 9 times out of 10 its faster.


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#21 OFFLINE   pshome

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:13 PM

Let the stats speak, Autobahn deaths per 109 km:
AutobahnStats.png
 
Its three times more likely to be killed in the US than in the UK. Praised for their defensive driving style and with the lowest speed limits it must be bullets, not speed.
Uk numbers are pretty low, no surprise, country is just a giant "go slow".
Germany is somewhere in the middle, France ans Belgium much higher, bien sûr.

How did Junkman survive Austria in the 80's and 90's?


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#22 OFFLINE   BavarianRetro

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:37 PM

Not entirely unofficial. If you have an accident and you were doing over 80mph, but the other party was under, you're automatically at fault. If both over, then its 50:50. Also bad weather lowers the speed limit too.


You have some authority for these statements? Other than some guy down the pub.

If I'm doing 82 driving safely and some idiot doing 70 causes an accident and it can be proven that it was caused by his driving witnesses, CCTV etc., your contention is that I shall be held liable purely because I was doing over 80?

That's bollocks, I'm afraid.

#23 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:48 PM

You have some authority for these statements? Other than some guy down the pub.

If I'm doing 82 driving safely and some idiot doing 70 causes an accident and it can be proven that it was caused by his driving witnesses, CCTV etc., your contention is that I shall be held liable purely because I was doing over 80?

That's bollocks, I'm afraid.

This was from my old flat mate, native German boyfriend who is car mad. Other than that no Read my next post. But then where is it written down centrally that rear ended means it's not your fault? Obviously there will always be edge cases to any rule - e.g. you rear ended another vehicle but they cut across the lane and slammed on the brakes, etc. But to prove that you're going to need hard evidence.

Apart from skid markings, modern cars are easy to prove what speed you were going as they either (depending the age of the vehicle) store instantaneous or couple of seconds of data in the event of a crash that deploys the airbags.
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#24 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:51 PM

30 seconds of googling brings up this autobild article:
http://www.autobild....ns-5415264.html

There is such a thing as "recommended speed", a self-imposed - and self-regulated - limit of 80 mph. Driving any faster carries an increased responsibility, which means that if you are involved in an accident while driving above those 80 mph you will bear partial liability, at least, even if you were obeying all traffic rules otherwise.


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#25 OFFLINE   pshome

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:00 PM

Bild is about as reputable as the sun....


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#26 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:14 PM

Bild is about as reputable as the sun....


For feck sake.

Google "erhöhte Betriebsgefahr autobahn" or read this and its associated references:
https://de.m.wikiped...geschwindigkeit
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#27 OFFLINE   pshome

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:23 PM

OMG.. Wikipedia, now that's a reliable source!

Show me the law that say's i am guilty for only reason that i did drive faster  and i will believe you.


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#28 OFFLINE   forddeliveryboy

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:26 PM

Respectfully, I disagree and I have driven extensively all around the world. The driving standard is better in the UK than anywhere except maybe Scandinavia. I do agree that UK drivers are getting more selfish and also the problem of looking at phones while driving is just as bad there as anywhere.


I wasn't making quality of driving comparisons with other nations when I said driving standards are low here, simply how I see things - in the main, laziness and selfishness much more than lack of ability. I've no doubt that it's still madness in Rome, Marrakesh or Islamabad and anywhere else where there's a deficit of British fair play.
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#29 OFFLINE   pshome

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:35 PM

...  I've no doubt that it's still madness in Rome, Marrakesh or Islamabad.

Objection, your Honor! Driving in Morocco is a real pleasure. Drivers are courteous and considerate and, unlike many Europeans, usually happy to give way.


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#30 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:48 PM

OMG.. Wikipedia, now that's a reliable source!
Show me the law that say's i am guilty for only reason that i did drive faster and i will believe you.



For feck sake.

Google "erhöhte Betriebsgefahr autobahn" or read this and its associated references:
https://de.m.wikiped...geschwindigkeit


Which I'm not going to paste in, as I suspect you neither have read my post fully or the wiki article posted.
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