French Shite 205 GTi - Sold and replacement collectioned - Warning Modern content.

[Anthony]

If you get stuck I'm happy to test any suspect bits on my 205 now it's re-insured or I can probably send you some tested bits to try and rule things out.

 

The mention of it stuttering at 4k rpm is a classic sign of a failing ignition module though.

 

Be wary of aftermarket pattern ones, as they can be problematic - the original Bosch MTR01 units are best. If you're replacing it, you'll need some heat transfer paste on the back between it and the alloy plate btw.

[richardthestag]

is the coil feed on the 205 ballasted or not?

 

If not you could try replacing the coil 12v ignition feed with a wire straight from the battery to see if it runs better. Beware though that to stop the engine you will need to pull the wire off the battery again.

 

If it is ballasted then you should have a 6v coil (suitable for ballast ignition) Not too sure how a 12v coil would behave under such circumstances

[Captain Furious]

@Anthony - that's a very generous offer, I'm not sure what make the replacement unit is we have ordered, probably not a Bosch one! I did remember to order some thermal paste though so we're good on that front.

 

@richardthestag - I honestly don't know, I did mean to measure the voltage being received at the coil but forgot, certainly at the battery its putting out a healthy 14 volts. It's a decent suggestion though, I'll add it to the list of diagnostic tests.

 

I have been quite patient up until now, but I really need to know, like right now this second, whether the new coil and module are going to fix this, so I can gauge the degree of wallet raping to come. Hopefully this time tomorrow there will be answers.

[Captain Furious]

Exciting update!! No not really, ignition module changed, still borked

 

It has made a difference though, if anything it's kind of reversed the problem, it's now pretty good between 2000-3500 rpm (very good in fact) but hits a brick wall at 4K and struggles to push through it. Whereas before it would be shite below 4 and then pull alright.

 

The new coil hasn't shown up yet but I'm doubtful it's going to be that. Swapped the airflow meter for another one we had and it made little to no difference either so unless I have two with an identical problem I'm ruling out afm for now.

 

So maybe it is the ignition module and buying a non-bosch one (my bad) means it's still wrong, maybe it's the coil, maybe I still have no idea what it is.

 

Fkin thing.

[Captain Furious]

One other thing, that may be a symptom or may be nothing, when you first start it, it takes 10 seconds or so for the rev counter to start reading.

[Captain Furious]

I had one of these. It developed a running problem similar to what you've described. After replacing all sorts of things I found the earth block for the fuel pump was rusted away. It hides behind the carpet in the boot, in the nearside wheel arch.

Ding ding ding we have a winner, and on his first post too.

 

We did give this connector a cursory glance a couple of weeks back and it seemed OK, but we revisited it today and relocated it to a better earthing point, all problems gone!

 

New issue is a binding front brake but that's easy pickings. Virtual beer heading your way Mr HimUpstairs

[himupstairs]

Great success!

I had also replaced the amp, coil, yadda yadda on the way to finding the fix.

I think someone on the 205gti forum pointed me at it in the end.

Also, long time lurker observer etc and general fan of this site.

[Captain Furious]

Omaidaiz it's all go this week in car world, tow car in for MOT, daily under the threat of a speeding ticket it couldn't possibly have committed, and now le French turd is playing up again too...

 

Well, I say playing up again, I think celebrations above may have been premature, the fuel pump earth definitely made a big difference, but there was still a misfire and hesitation at mid range which seemed to gradually come back with increasing severity.

 

So now I'm afraid HGF is the prime suspect. Why? Glad you asked...

 

I've always had a sneaky suspicion something was amiss since early on in ownership, because the header tank gets pressurised VERY quickly, after only a couple of minutes running and when hot constantly hisses around the cap

 

Mayo in the oil filler cap...I know, we did that thing where you try and convince yourself it's condensation, but last time we were working on it I cleaned it out and it came back almost immediately. It's now also on the dipstick

 

The other week during a hot start it bellowed out a shite load of white smoke on startup, it seemed to be an isolated incident, but coupled with the other suspicions, it's a red flag

 

It tends to splutter a bit on first startup, which I put down to old car frenchness, but I've also known this to be a head gasket symptom - water leaking into the combustion chambers

 

The water light came on a few weeks back, seemed to be an instrumentation issue at the time but maybe the level had dropped

 

So, it's spanner time....to be honest I think we're just going to strip the head off and send it to be skimmed/tested before ordering any more parts, this will also allow us to inspect the pistons/bores etc, it's a high mileage engine (155k) so if it's borked then it'll be 2nd hand engine time.

[RayMK]

My 205 auto had similar symptoms last year, but the dipstick remained mayo free. I convinced myself that it was just condensation and French instrumentation.  Even a Peugeot main dealer agreed that the head gasket was probably ok and carried out a coolant flush before sending me on my way.  OMGHGF occurred a few weeks  and a couple of thousand miles later, not catastrophically, but the expansion bottle overflowed with mayo and the low water level light was ON most of the time, probably due to the quantity of gas getting in to the coolant.  Head gasket failure was confirmed when they stripped the engine to investigate.  Fortunately, the wet liners had not settled and were clamped as soon as the head was removed.  It was moderately expensive to fix despite being done at staff discount rates.  I've done about 18,000 miles since, bringing the mileage up to 71K.

 

Good luck with the repair/replacement.  If it's basically a good car, it is well worth fixing.  Buying another Gti would be expensive.

[Ghosty]

Have you had the rocker cover off? First thing I knew about the Rover HGFing was when I looked inside it.

[Captain Furious]

I haven't had the rocker cover off and the oil filler cap is remote on these so I can't see into it either, but the mayo came back with a vengeance even without the engine going through a cool down / warm up cycle, so condensation is out!

 

It's never overheated yet, but I reckon it's only a matter of time and I'd sooner tackle it before it does. Could you expand on dealing with the cylinder liners? I've done head gaskets before but not on engines with cylinder liners, and cursory googling so far is throwing up worrying story's about having to replace wet liner seals etc

[RayMK]

As your engine has not overheated, it would be reasonable to assume that the liner seals are ok.  This assumption will be reinforced if examination of the head gasket and the mating faces shows a leak path and/or corrosion.  Liners are supposed to stand slightly proud of the block in order to achieve a good seal on the head gasket while maintaining the required liner clamp down force.  Measure the liner step (the dimension of 'proudness.') for each one and compare the figure with manufacturer's recommendations.  If the liner(s) have sunk below the block face, new seals will be required and that can be a bit of a game in a higher mileage engine (limescale and other crud).  It is important to put clamps across the liners as soon as the head has been removed, otherwise there is a risk of them moving if, for instance, the crank has to be turned for some reason.

[Captain Furious]

Great info, thanks..I would have probably gone in like a trained ape and torn the head off with carefree abandon. Now I sort of get the principle behind them and can take the appropriate precautions. (I do have a HBOL so will do some revision from that as well as online)

 

Assuming worst case and they needed to be replaced, that's presumably a sump off and disconnect the conrods job?

[RayMK]

Yes, quite major  .  I have not dismantled a 205 engine and am far from being an expert on them.  I have, however, dismantled Reliant 600 and 700cc ohv engines which share the typical wet liner layout.  Pulling the liners out is difficult and really needs the pistons out of the way.  Putting new liner seals in, together with new liners or cleaned up originals if the bores are ok, is a bit easier once the block has been cleaned.  I think I would go for a 2nd hand engine from a crashed Gti (obviously rear ended preferable) or one which has been scrapped because of a failed rear beam and/or corrosion (rare), rather than fiddle with the liners on a high mileage engine.  

[Captain Furious]

So, I finally managed to snap out of my recent funk long enough to get round to this, last week I ordered the necessary quality* parts from ECP with their special Easter discount. Head gasket set, water pump, timing belt kit, oil, antifreeze, filter and camshaft seal. Still need to source some head bolts as ECP don't list them.

 

New parts arrived - excitement

 

 

Upon checking in the box, it appears that the "head gasket set" comes with all gaskets except........a head gasket. So a phone call to ECP where the claimed, incredibly, that this is correct and the actual head gasket is separate. I felt I was having my pants pulled down, but since ordering it I'd kinda decided I wanted a genuine gasket anyway, so one is on order from the local Peugeot dealer

 

Without further ado, guided by HBOL, we set about ripping its head off.

 

 

Everything went reasonably smoothly (so I'm told, I actually ducked a lot of the work because I went to get my hair cut and had to wait for DHL to come) I got there for the actual head removal. I think we managed this without disturbing the wet liners and secured them in place with some big washers/sockets/headbolts

 

 

The head itself and gasket didn't show the obvious signs I was sort of hoping for, but there was signs of leakage in the centre water jacket holes and piston number 3 had water in it. The head looks as though it's possibly been overheated at some stage, but not while we've had it.

 

 

So that's where it's at, head has been dropped off at a local engineering shop for a skim and pressure test, then we'll remove the valves, lap them in, replace stem seals, Reassembly is reversal of removal etc etc probably next Thursday/Friday

 

Kinda felt good to do some old fashioned mechanicing again

[Captain Furious]

Well, I was planning to do a super interesting* update including step by step pics of head being skimmed, valves reground, re-assembly with new timing belt, water pump, gaskets etc

 

All of these activities took place, and we got it running again today, the net result is that It still misfires and hesitates at 3500rpm and I'm starting to lose the will to throw any more money after it

 

The head gasket was definitely gone, no doubt about that, and I think it is now OK, the header tank no longer pressurises excessively, still signs of mayo in the filler cap but I don't think we've got all the moisture out of it from before, the oil in the sump is staying clean. Time will tell

 

So I dunno what next, adjusting the ignition timing made a difference in that it would pull to the redline once it got past the 3500rpm stuttering, but no adjustment that has hitherto been tried has got rid of the 3500rpm issue. So I'm thinking it might be an internal issue with the distributor advance mechanism/spring/whatever

 

But I've thought it's been a lot of things and been wrong every time, so fuck knows. It's getting towards 'show season' when my other cars need attention, all of which I love more than this ungrateful heap of shit, and money is a finite resource.

[Anthony]

My offer still stands. Mine's on the road and freshly MOT'd as of yesterday, so happy to test any bits for you or whatever helps.

 

Ignore the mayo in the filler cap providing that there's not huge amounts of it - that's "normal" until you do some longish runs to get the oil hot enough to burn off the moisture.

[Captain Furious]

Cheers, I appreciate that, I'm away for the next couple of weekends so it's likely to get canned for a bit, I should say, it's running much better than when we first got it, it was basically undriveable then, now other than the hesitation at 3500rpm it's mostly fine, so something we've done must have worked to an extent. I suppose I expected to find one main culprit, the smoking gun that would resolve everything but that hasn't been the case.

 

Maybe we're overthinking it, I mean, we've assumed the plugs and leads to be good and discounted them as a cause because 'they look fairly new'. Might be time to go back to basics and replace service items before looking at the distributor, instead of assuming the previous owner had probably thought of that.

 

If all else fails, maybe a road trip to Swindon might be in order to take you up on your kind offer.

[Captain Furious]

Well, it's been a while since any updates....and to be honest my car mojo has been lacking for a couple of months now, particularly for this hateful little bastard thing. Nevertheless, some stuff has happened

 

First up, we got a new* distributor from a well known internet auction site, I know replacing suspected faulty parts with unknown 2nd hand parts is a fools game, but I thought the odds of there being two distributors with the exact same fault was minimal, at the very least it should make some difference....anyway, it didn't, so either I had two fucked distributors or two good ones, I suspect they're both good and this is not the cause.

 

It was abandoned again and we were at the point of giving up and sending it somewhere to be 'diagnosed' and the inevitable reaming that goes with it. Then my mate suggests that, since one came in the boot amongst the parts supply, that we try changing the fuel regulator. I was sceptical, I have never known one to be faulty in all my motoring life and I would have almost bet my mortgage on this being an ignition fault. Anyway, the one that came with it is an FSE POWAH boost valve no less, so we fitted it and took it for a test drive, awaiting the inevitable disappointment that we are so used to by now...

 

It only bloody worked...I mean, the misfire at 3500 is completely gone, not even a hint of it...I almost can't believe it myself. But....it doesn't feel as fast as I expected, it's a bit flat at the top end past about 4500rpm. Now, this may just be because they're NOT as fast as I was expecting and 8v engines don't pull at the top end as well as 16v and 24v V6’s that I've been driving for the last 15 years.

 

So the next steps are to flush the coolant system out and put some anti-freeze in it (been running it on plain water since the head gasket because I still have a bottom hose to change) change the oil again and then get it rolling roaded. More to the fact that the amount of power and shape of the graph should be a good indicator of how it's running and they can make sure it's running a 'safe' mixture and set the timing properly etc.

 

Things I have learned so far

 

1. Fuel pressure regulators do fail

2. I'm nowhere near as good as I thought I was at diagnosing running issues

[Arthur Foxhake]

I didn't find my 1.9 GTI that quick either really.

I think they're only about 130bhp.

Not much by todays standards.

[Captain Furious]

So, the 205 got sold a couple of weeks back, it still wasn't running right, we didn't know why and we were both fed up with it. Mechanical woes aside it still would have needed a full respray and neither of us had any enthusiasm left for it. Anyway it sold back to the guy who had owned it when it was new! £2500 which, after taking into account what we spent left a modest profit, I'm certainly not going to give up the day job for classic car dealing.

 

Anyway, my mate needed a new car because his mk6 escort had run out of MOT and he didn't want to invest any more to get it through another. So we came to an agreement where if he got something I could use for towing with then I would stick my half of the 205 money towards it, he pays the running/repair costs and I can use it as and when I need. Also means I can get shot of another problem child, the Granada, and I don't have to tax/insure/MOT that.

 

So, we started looking at Mk4 Mondeos, I wanted a Titanium X Sport but it quickly became clear anything in our budget was either shagged or had done interstellar mileage, so we dropped it to plain old Titanium X's...there are loads about but again they'd all (at least all the ones we looked at) done big mileage and/or were tatty...I decided I wasn't really that fussed on spec, I'm only going to use it a few times a year so as long as it's not some proper poverty spec then it doesn't really matter...

 

...so today we picked up this (no actual pics of it yet but it's basically identical to this one) 10 plate 2.0 TDCi in Alcatraz spec 'edge'! Keep fit windows in the back, wheel trims, hell it hasn't even got a fuel computer. BUT, and this was the clincher, it only has 34k miles and full main dealer service history. All for £2500 which makes it basically a straight swap for the pug, fair few giffer dents and scrapes but it drives superbly and the 2.0 derv is reasonably potent

 

So, there it is, not autoshite, uneventful 10 mile round trip collection, nothing really to see here.