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The Crying Pumpkin - Death wobble update


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102 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   richardthestag

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:51 AM

By the way where are your brake back plates? Did LR chappy not want to replace them :(


Shitroen C4 GP 2006 1.6HDi - Wife's daily

Pug 307 - son's daily runner

Range Rover Vogue 1993 - my daily runner

Daewoo Matiz 2002 - Sold

Jaguar x308 Sovereign 4 litre - nicked by Fathathestag but maintained by me

Triumph Staaag 1973 - cheaper than a mistress.. just

Range Rover 1972 - ongoing extensive restoration

Range Rover 1972 - complete shed but in line for restoration

Land Rover SIIa SWB - belongs to Fathathestag but maintained and welded by me

BMW E46 318i touring - don wanna start yet :D

 

 


#62 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:52 AM

They have rotted away long since - he didn't mention it and neither did I.

 

Thanks for the other stuff - basically it's just replace everything, cheapest first I guess :)


1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#63 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:56 AM

Is there a UJ in there somewhere as part of the pre-steering box linkage (there's one just near the steering box on Disco 2s but no idea on a Classic) which could be seizing up?

 

My technical knowledge is nil, but a D2 owning mate had a similar issue with his car and that was the cause.

Yes, there are 2.   A new shaft with new UJs isn't a million pounds so that might be a place to start.


1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#64 OFFLINE   richardthestag

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:57 AM

dont buy the cheapest part, try avoid "blue" if there is a quality alternative

 

dont assume just because it is new it is fit for purpose :D


Shitroen C4 GP 2006 1.6HDi - Wife's daily

Pug 307 - son's daily runner

Range Rover Vogue 1993 - my daily runner

Daewoo Matiz 2002 - Sold

Jaguar x308 Sovereign 4 litre - nicked by Fathathestag but maintained by me

Triumph Staaag 1973 - cheaper than a mistress.. just

Range Rover 1972 - ongoing extensive restoration

Range Rover 1972 - complete shed but in line for restoration

Land Rover SIIa SWB - belongs to Fathathestag but maintained and welded by me

BMW E46 318i touring - don wanna start yet :D

 

 


#65 OFFLINE   richardthestag

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:03 AM

Yes, there are 2.   A new shaft with new UJs isn't a million pounds so that might be a place to start.

 

There was a batch of these that dried up and generated play in no time at all. Blue is the only option! dont get stung into buying LR OEM as it arrives in the same blue box as the cheaper priced part.

 

It comes in two parts the UJ and the shaft and U/J

 

Make sure it goes in the right way round, the shaft and rubber mount fits to the steering box, the uj to the end of the steering column. Even the slightest impression of play in either UJ will ruin the steering feel with knocks and clonks

 

Also I found that the rivets that secure the rubber mounting on the box end have been loose on some items that I sent back. I went through a stage of fitting a new one of these every fucking month about 5 years ago.

 

Bastard things. Current shaft has been on for a few years now and all is well.


  • AMC Rebel likes this

Shitroen C4 GP 2006 1.6HDi - Wife's daily

Pug 307 - son's daily runner

Range Rover Vogue 1993 - my daily runner

Daewoo Matiz 2002 - Sold

Jaguar x308 Sovereign 4 litre - nicked by Fathathestag but maintained by me

Triumph Staaag 1973 - cheaper than a mistress.. just

Range Rover 1972 - ongoing extensive restoration

Range Rover 1972 - complete shed but in line for restoration

Land Rover SIIa SWB - belongs to Fathathestag but maintained and welded by me

BMW E46 318i touring - don wanna start yet :D

 

 


#66 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:04 AM

dont buy the cheapest part, try avoid "blue" if there is a quality alternative

 

dont assume just because it is new it is fit for purpose :D

I didn't buy the cheapest - it's a Bilstien one - it feels OK (smooth consistent action across the range or movement and decent resistance) and much better than the Britpart one I took off.


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1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#67 OFFLINE   richardthestag

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:08 AM

They have rotted away long since - he didn't mention it and neither did I.

 

 

 

I might be inclined to get some fitted. they keep heat away from sensitive bits like the ABS sensor and steering ball joints

 

They also are useful at keeping road water etc (in normal use) from splashing on hot discs and risking warpage or even more likely slightly unpredictable loss of efficiency in the brake pads just when you need them.

 

Also stops brake dust from coating everything under the wheelarch. less of an issue these days now that asbestos is banned.

 

:D


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Shitroen C4 GP 2006 1.6HDi - Wife's daily

Pug 307 - son's daily runner

Range Rover Vogue 1993 - my daily runner

Daewoo Matiz 2002 - Sold

Jaguar x308 Sovereign 4 litre - nicked by Fathathestag but maintained by me

Triumph Staaag 1973 - cheaper than a mistress.. just

Range Rover 1972 - ongoing extensive restoration

Range Rover 1972 - complete shed but in line for restoration

Land Rover SIIa SWB - belongs to Fathathestag but maintained and welded by me

BMW E46 318i touring - don wanna start yet :D

 

 


#68 OFFLINE   richardthestag

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:10 AM

I didn't buy the cheapest - it's a Bilstien one - it feels OK (smooth consistent action across the range or movement and decent resistance) and much better than the Britpart one I took off.

 

In which case make sure the mounting rubbers for it are crushed as tight as you can get them. Should sort the knock, bonk, wobble feeling through the steering wheel


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Shitroen C4 GP 2006 1.6HDi - Wife's daily

Pug 307 - son's daily runner

Range Rover Vogue 1993 - my daily runner

Daewoo Matiz 2002 - Sold

Jaguar x308 Sovereign 4 litre - nicked by Fathathestag but maintained by me

Triumph Staaag 1973 - cheaper than a mistress.. just

Range Rover 1972 - ongoing extensive restoration

Range Rover 1972 - complete shed but in line for restoration

Land Rover SIIa SWB - belongs to Fathathestag but maintained and welded by me

BMW E46 318i touring - don wanna start yet :D

 

 


#69 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:16 AM

I might be inclined to get some fitted. they keep heat away from sensitive bits like the ABS sensor and steering ball joints

 

They also are useful at keeping road water etc (in normal use) from splashing on hot discs and risking warpage or even more likely slightly unpredictable loss of efficiency in the brake pads just when you need them.

 

Also stops brake dust from coating everything under the wheelarch. less of an issue these days now that asbestos is banned.

 

:D

 

Good shout, I will order some.


1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#70 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 10:03 AM

My disco used to entertain* me with steering that'd randomly jam every 90degrees of turn on the steering wheel. Lots of WD40 on the steering UJs would fix it for a few months, I never did change them...


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#71 OFFLINE   richardthestag

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:05 PM

My disco used to entertain* me with steering that'd randomly jam every 90degrees of turn on the steering wheel. Lots of WD40 on the steering UJs would fix it for a few months, I never did change them...

 

The trick I used to use was to boil up some engine oil and dip the uj into it for 10 mins or so. Doesnt last long though. I even fucked around with a heatshield to protect the lower UJ from the V8 exhaust manifold, nothing lasted long. Then I got into rummaging through stock of every single shaft in the country trying to find one that was a) lubbed up and b . not fucked


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Shitroen C4 GP 2006 1.6HDi - Wife's daily

Pug 307 - son's daily runner

Range Rover Vogue 1993 - my daily runner

Daewoo Matiz 2002 - Sold

Jaguar x308 Sovereign 4 litre - nicked by Fathathestag but maintained by me

Triumph Staaag 1973 - cheaper than a mistress.. just

Range Rover 1972 - ongoing extensive restoration

Range Rover 1972 - complete shed but in line for restoration

Land Rover SIIa SWB - belongs to Fathathestag but maintained and welded by me

BMW E46 318i touring - don wanna start yet :D

 

 


#72 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:14 PM

New shaft ordered, along with various bushes and the disc backplates.  Had a look underneath this even and was somewhat peeved to find oil is pissing out of the newly fitted (with new seals) swivels - I've never seen any that didn't do this - but I have never owned one of these before - do they all do it?


1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#73 OFFLINE   Dead_E23

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:42 PM

The ones that don't are full of grease, and if they've had grease and still leak oil there's a seal between the swivel and the axle that needs replacing.  

 

Mine are full of grease, but if I park it up for ages something dribbles out of the seals.  I'm pretending I haven't noticed.  That's the best course of action with a Land Rover; they always need 3 things doing, so as soon as you fix one thing something else breaks.  If you ignore a few jobs they seem to thrive on it.



#74 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:47 PM

If you've paid someone to fit new swivels and seals no they shouldn't be leaking within a few 100 miles even when filled with oil
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#75 OFFLINE   Rusty_Rocket

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:47 PM

Had a look underneath this even and was somewhat peeved to find oil is pissing out of the newly fitted (with new seals) swivels - I've never seen any that didn't do this - but I have never owned one of these before - do they all do it?

 

They shouldn't be doing that yet!!  I'd be going back to the people that did the work  :shock:

It does make me wonder if they got the preload right... 

 

All my LRs have the one-shot grease instead of the ep90 in their swivels, but a freshly rebuilt assembly should stay dry for years.



#76 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:50 PM

Thanks - I think a revisit is in order - they weren't cheap and have been OK before (on my Disco).


1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#77 OFFLINE   Rusty_Rocket

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:53 PM

Yes, I remember you said they weren't cheap.  I'd ask them why you're still getting the death shakes too.  A specialist really should be able to sort that nowadays!


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#78 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:10 PM

Check with them about if grease is ok in yours. I seem to recall it requires a later something* to be ok with it.

 

 

*top swivel bearing or CV, I forget.


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#79 OFFLINE   Dead_E23

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:11 PM

I hadn't clocked that they were new!   They certainly shouldn't be leaking - I remember it being a bit tricky to get the seal in the right place when assembling them, but it's a long time since I did them.  

 

The wheel wobbling thing probably means the 'swivel preload' isn't correctly set.  You measure the amount of force needed to turn the swivel using a fisherman's weighing scale and adjust it to the right value by adding or removing shims from the swivel bearing.


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#80 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:50 PM

I hadn't clocked that they were new!   They certainly shouldn't be leaking - I remember it being a bit tricky to get the seal in the right place when assembling them, but it's a long time since I did them.  

 

The wheel wobbling thing probably means the 'swivel preload' isn't correctly set.  You measure the amount of force needed to turn the swivel using a fisherman's weighing scale and adjust it to the right value by adding or removing shims from the swivel bearing.

I have read all this - (about the preload - on t'internet and from advice here) and that was partially my thinking in getting the LR place to do 'em - I (perhaps wrongly) thought that as this will be a more regular job for them, they would get it right.  I will talk to them in the morning.

 

Thanks for all the wisdom, folks, it is appreciated.


1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#81 OFFLINE   richardthestag

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:41 AM

not grease but one-stop lube https://www.famousfo...f_part?part=305. Great ease of use and non drip BUT not if you enjoy deep wading! 

 

DO NOT USE One-stop  If you DO go wading - use oil and regularly drain and refill the swivels with correct oil. The onestop requires the whole hub to be disassembled for the water contaminated one-stop to be scooped out

 

The seals should NOT be leaking, there should be a sheen of oil on the swivel balls but not dripping onto the ground


Shitroen C4 GP 2006 1.6HDi - Wife's daily

Pug 307 - son's daily runner

Range Rover Vogue 1993 - my daily runner

Daewoo Matiz 2002 - Sold

Jaguar x308 Sovereign 4 litre - nicked by Fathathestag but maintained by me

Triumph Staaag 1973 - cheaper than a mistress.. just

Range Rover 1972 - ongoing extensive restoration

Range Rover 1972 - complete shed but in line for restoration

Land Rover SIIa SWB - belongs to Fathathestag but maintained and welded by me

BMW E46 318i touring - don wanna start yet :D

 

 


#82 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:33 PM

not grease but one-stop lube https://www.famousfo...f_part?part=305. Great ease of use and non drip BUT not if you enjoy deep wading! 

 

DO NOT USE One-stop  If you DO go wading - use oil and regularly drain and refill the swivels with correct oil. The onestop requires the whole hub to be disassembled for the water contaminated one-stop to be scooped out

 

The seals should NOT be leaking, there should be a sheen of oil on the swivel balls but not dripping onto the ground

 

I always called them grease as it's quicker to say. You're right it's not just grease though.



#83 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:55 PM

I will take a pic of the swivels if it ever stops raining here. Hopefully taking it back in later for further attention.

1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#84 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:08 PM

IMG_0184.JPG

 

 

IMG_0185.JPG


1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#85 OFFLINE   John F

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:15 PM

Those swivels look absolutely fine to me.

 

I didn't replace mine until they were pitted & leaking like a sieve.

 

EDIT: Ah... they're supposed to be new. Then there's a chance they didn't support the swivel when bolting up the kingpin, this can crush the seal & cause leaks.


Never knowingly under-ambitious

 

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'88 Volkswagen LT35 camper
'86 Honda CBX 750F
'82 Suzuki GSX1100SZ Katana


#86 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:05 PM

Britpart win the Amazon Packaging award for today

 

 

IMG_0188.JPG


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1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#87 OFFLINE   Eddie Honda

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:33 PM

Anti-Yodel double-walled corrugated cardboard box. Noice.

 

Probably more robust than the part itself!


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#88 OFFLINE   Des

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:16 PM

No fair, my Britpart column joint lasted perfectly well enough to pass the MOT at my very local station and went on to survive at least a couple of three point turns until it was hanging apart worse than the quarter century old original it replaced.


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Festering scum of the earth, yer motoring public.

#89 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:34 PM

Well in the absence of me hearing any news about the Disco I took to LR specialist for a service and me forgetting to phone due to having to do some pesky work, I fitted the Britpart steering linkage - I haven't been for a test drive, but I seriously doubt it will have made any difference as there was no discernible play in the one that came off.

 

Before

WP_20170320_001.jpg

 

After

WP_20170320_037.jpg


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1994 Range Rover Classic "The Crying Pumpkin"

2000 Ford Mondeo Verona 1.8 pez 

2000 Ford Puma 1.7 - Roffled and now with new AS owner

1968 AMC Rebel SST convertible (working and road legal but in limp home mode)

1967 AMC Rebel SST convertible (superior body and originality being slowly raided for spares for the '68) Off road for at least the last 25 years

1956 Chevy 210 4 door hardtop - bought in 2000 and still in my garage - I even do a bit of work on it occasionally - long term project

2005 MG ZT-T awaiting completion of engine transplant of spare V6 after OMG HGF on the engine that "never has that problem"

2005 Land Rover Discovery - for long trips and moving engines 


#90 OFFLINE   Rusty_Rocket

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:42 PM

It is a nice colour though!!

 

Erm, do keep hold of the original one, won't you?!






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