SENATOR-Gone!

[Junkman]

Yep, the dreaded camshaftfeast. Didn't I write about it earlier in this thread?

I had it on my A Senator and several CIH Rekords, always nicely ending on the hard shoulder of some Autobahn, waiting for the ADAC recovery lorry to arrive.

Thanks God changing them is a piece of piss. It only ever happened to me with factory camshafts, though, the replacement ones always lasted.

 

It's about time Peugeot injects some kwolitee into Opel...

[CreepingJesus]

You did indeed. I was acquainted with the phenomenon from my time behind the parts desk in a Vauxhall garage, but as you rightly point out, other than warranty jobs (still happening on late 80s family OHCs within warranty), replacements were pattern. Equally iirc, the best pattern ones were made by Schrick, but I may be wrong on that.

[Stevebrookman]

Yep, the dreaded camshaftfeast. Didn't I write about it earlier in this thread?

 

You did and were spot on! Low mileage as well - 62000 miles. Reading up it does appear to be a common fault. Hope it doesnt happen to my Royale!

 

Steve

[Junkman]

You did indeed. I was acquainted with the phenomenon from my time behind the parts desk in a Vauxhall garage, but as you rightly point out, other than warranty jobs (still happening on late 80s family OHCs within warranty), replacements were pattern. Equally iirc, the best pattern ones were made by Schrick, but I may be wrong on that.

 

Schrick for dads, Steinmetz for batchelors.

[Stevebrookman]

Had a few hours today on the car. Everything apart from the throttle cable and servo hose disconnected. Head bolts nearest the screen bstards to get at due to the air con pipes-think I'll bin them.

 

Fun will now start when I try to loosen the head and actually move it to the bench.

 

 

Steve

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Going back 30 years when i was a trainee at a Vauxhall dealer there was a procedure for adjusting / setting the valve clearances on these engines.

 

We made a little half moon shaped shield out of a bit of tin that fitted over the cam chain to stop the oil getting flung everywhere then you started the engine up with the cam cover removed,i think a bit of stiff card would do the job just as well.

This was held in place by using a couple of the cover bolts through it into the existing threads by the chain.

 

If my memory serves me the early engines were not hydraulic but had solid tappets and to set these you started the hot engine and used a long feeler strip to measure the valve to rocker clearance and adjusted it as required by turning the rocker nut.

 

I can't accurately recall the procedure for adjusting hydraulic lifters but it was something like have the engine warmed up and running and slacken the rocker nut until it just starts to tap then slowly turn the rocker nut one full turn and that would set up the correct pre load.

 

It could i guess be a totaly worn cam lobe causing the valve not to operate so why not with the rocker arm removed rotate the engine and see if the tappet goes up and down ?

 

Edit. Thinking about the adjustment procedure although one full turn was recommended i think they seemed happier with around just half a turn as a rule.

 

 

 

From distant memory, you had to adjust the tappets with the engine idling, with the cardboard you mentioned. Never did a six cylinder but a few 4 cylinder units in Mantas and suchlike. These engines were also well known for the oil control rings to wear out. The engine would run but the crankcase fumes were unreal - a hose from the cam cover into a plastic bottle under the bonnet was the usual fix. Iirc, the 2.8 was the worst one. It may be worth dropping the sump, taking the slugs out, fitting new rings and honing the bores.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

.

[Stevebrookman]

From distant memory, you had to adjust the tappets with the engine idling, with the cardboard you mentioned. Never did a six cylinder but a few 4 cylinder units in Mantas and suchlike. These engines were also well known for the oil control rings to wear out. The engine would run but the crankcase fumes were unreal - a hose from the cam cover into a plastic bottle under the bonnet was the usual fix. Iirc, the 2.8 was the worst one. It may be worth dropping the sump, taking the slugs out, fitting new rings and honing the bores.

 

Thanks,

I'll leave the sump for now-the cam change is bad enough!

 

Steve

[Stevebrookman]

Head now off- nearly killed me lifting it out-it's a bit heavy.

 

 

Now to get out the camshaft-anyone know if theses hexagonal bolts need to come off to get it out?

 

 

Will have to come up with an idea on how to get the head back in-may need to rig up a pulley.

 

Steve

[Joey spud]

No them plugs are nothing to do with holding the cam.

I remember doing a 4 cylinder Manta head gasket and that head was heavy enough and i tried refitting it on my own and managed to trap a finger under the head when guiding it past the cam chain cog and had to yell for help to get myself free.

 

So yes i think assistance or hanging the head from an engine crane is advisable.

[Stevebrookman]

Thanks Joey,

I think it levers out-will have a look tomorrow.

 

Definately need a few more people to put it in (!). It's a lot harder to position going in and it was bloody heavy getting it out.

 

Steve

[Guest Lord Sward]

Many hands make light work.

 

I appreciate how heavy the 4 cylinder heads were, so you have my sympathy.  

[twosmoke300]

Some of the 6cyl tractor heads make you grunt lifting them off !

[Jimbo]

The cam pulls out from the front or the back of the head after all the lifters are removed and the end covers removed. there are some plastic thrust pads in the ends of the cam that rub against the sheet steel covers either end. It's been 30 years since I stripped one of those but that how I remember it...

[Stevebrookman]

Thanks Jimbob,

Will have a go tomorrow and hopefully post a photo of the old cam.

 

Steve

[Jimbo]

A footnote the cam runs in white metal bearings be careful not to damage them with the lobes when pulling the cam, top tip stand the head on its end to pull the cam out. When we used to fit hot cams in these engines there used to be a small spacer to fit in the oil return gallery to increase the oil level in the head this stopped the cam wear.

[Stevebrookman]

Thanks Jimbo,

Cam now out-one of the lobes is nearly circular-no profile at all!

 

 

 

Steve

[Joey spud]

I had a V8 Range Rover with cam lobes like that.

It made a massive difference to torque and mpg once it was replaced.

[Stevebrookman]

I'm hoping it will run on all 6 cylinders!

 

I've got a gasket set on the way so will start rebuilding in the week.

 

Still working on then bloody car port.

 

Steve

[Squire_Dawson]

What on Earth were GM making these camshafts out of? Still, you could say ~60,000 miles is fair for a top overhaul.

[twosmoke300]

I think it was as much to do with oil quality back then

[Jimbo]

That makes me worry about my 84k monza! But she runs really sweet.

[twosmoke300]

When the senator was current

[DodgeRover]

What on Earth were GM making these camshafts out of? Still, you could say ~60,000 miles is fair for a top overhaul.

Mk2 Cavaliers from the same period used to be notorious for chocolate cams at one point as well.

[Jimbo]

I think the problem stems from extending service intervals but still using old fashioned oils. Looking back to those times OHC engines did suffer with cam wear remember pinto oil spray bar clogging with oil sludge. Was never a problem with OHV engines with pleanty of oil flying about in the crank case over the cam.

[saucedoctor]

Although, a mate's Fiesta 1.1 rounded a couple of lobes. Not something I've heard of too often, to be fair.

[Squire_Dawson]

Well, overhead cam engines have been around since the early 20th Century and they didn't go like that. So it points to poor design or materials on the part of the manufacturer. But forumites have said aftermarket cams are good, and Steve is doing a great job with this car, so all is hunky dory.

[Stevebrookman]

Thanks Squire!

I'm trying my best-its the most mechanickng I've done for a while!

 

Last head off was an 1800 Sherpa 32 years ago.

 

Now I feel old!

 

Steve

[Bren]

Thanks Squire!

I'm trying my best-its the most mechanickng I've done for a while!

 

Last head off was an 1800 Sherpa 32 years ago.

 

Now I feel old!

 

Steve

You must put it back on someday.

[Stevebrookman]

Head back on-took 5 of us to get it in. Then  the splined socket came off dropping into the head-thought I'd have to take the head off again! Finally got it out after an hour.

What a pain torqueing up the head bolts-the two nearest the bulkhead are very inaccessible - its a three stage process torque, then tighten by 90 degrees wait ten mins and a further 40 degrees.

Took ages-but on.

 

Hope it's ok otherwise I'm going to burn the bloody thing!

 

My patience must be getting better (slightly) with old age-20 years ago within 30 seconds of dropping the splined socket-I would have gone mental (only went slightly mental this time).

 

Steve