Honey Badger Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Good little tool from Scott Bader for picking the right adhesive Dan. http://www.scottbader.com/adhesives/selector#expander2 M1-20 looks the best bet. Drill some holes in the patch round the edge before you bond it on, then when you push the patch onto the adhesive it will squirt through the holes, smooth it slightly proud and you get a good strong bond with increased bond area, 1 to 1.5mm spacers between the patch and the roof skin will allow a good bed of adhesive for best results. Fillet the adhesive like in c or d below around the outside and it should outlast the car. Before you bond the patch, try to bond a couple of bits of steel together to check the adhesion if you can. danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanky Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I’ll be interested to see how the powder coating goes. I want to do the same to my wheels but whenever I mention it someone chimes in ‘don’t do that, you don’t need to, just paint them’ for some reason. I've dropped my Saab alloys off with Dan this AM to be powder coated at the same time. From my experience painting is relatively easy, but the prep involved is a complete and utter sod. I spent about 4 hours sanding 3 of the 4 alloys I have and they weren't even halfway ready for paint. They'd then need several coats of paint and flatting back in between. Maybe some alloys would be OK, but anything remotely intricate and powder coating seems like a much more attractive option! Also someone said that powder coating is a much tougher finish than paint which even when lacquered will scrape very easily. Looking forward to seeing the finished results for both cars! Dan is right that the powder coating cost is small beer compared with the cost of decent rubber to go on afterwards! danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosty Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I have the same wheels as Dan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanky Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I suspect that sanding the faces of the wheels is reasonably strightforward but getting into the square(ish) cutouts and recessed sections will cripple your fingers in very short order! danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 I have the same wheels as Dan...To be honest, looking at them there's no way in hell I'd even attempt to sand them down to prep for paint! All those tight little gaps and slots to try to get your fingers and emery cloth into. Screw that!It's much much quicker and easier to just blast them, every trace of the old paint and dirt is gone then.Apparently once that's done they go in a big oven for hours to bake them. So I'm told, this releases any gas from the alloy which would completely ruin the powder coat if not. Then the powder goes on then back into the oven to melt it into a nice thick smooth coating.These alloys cost more than the equivalent steel rims to do because of the additional work needed on the base material. My Capri steels were a fair bit cheaper than these. I've dropped my Saab alloys off with Dan this AM to be powder coated at the same time. From my experience painting is relatively easy, but the prep involved is a complete and utter sod. I spent about 4 hours sanding 3 of the 4 alloys I have and they weren't even halfway ready for paint. They'd then need several coats of paint and flatting back in between. Maybe some alloys would be OK, but anything remotely intricate and powder coating seems like a much more attractive option! Also someone said that powder coating is a much tougher finish than paint which even when lacquered will scrape very easily. Looking forward to seeing the finished results for both cars! Dan is right that the powder coating cost is small beer compared with the cost of decent rubber to go on afterwards!Pleasure to meet you this morning! The guys going to call me once all the wheels are ready, hopefully it'll be later this week.I was looking at your alloys this morning. They're huge compared to my little 14'' ones! I bet the tyres for them are expensive! I actually tried to remove my own tyres at home to try to save a bit of cash. I managed to pop the bead on one tyre and get one side of one tyre off the rim. Then I gave up cos it was hard work! Bollocks to it! Stanky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanky Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 They are huge compared to my current ones too! I'm currently trying to find suitable rubber to go on them that is a good compromise between name I've actually heard of and price. Well done trying to remove the tyres yourself - I struggle enough getting push-bike tyres off the rims, removing a car tyre from a wheel without doing serious damage to the rim, yourself or both must be a real achievement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 They are huge compared to my current ones too! I'm currently trying to find suitable rubber to go on them that is a good compromise between name I've actually heard of and price. Well done trying to remove the tyres yourself - I struggle enough getting push-bike tyres off the rims, removing a car tyre from a wheel without doing serious damage to the rim, yourself or both must be a real achievement!It's hard work! The bead of the tyre is incredibly strong and I think if you put you fingers in the wrong place and the bead slipped back you'd be running the risk losing them. It did cross my mind wether to get the angle grinder out and just cut them. Sod it though, it's much easier to do with a tyre machine and big pry bar so I'll just pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimo Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Cut out the rusty roof with a small hole saw / tank cutter. Clean edges with a deburrring tool. Glue patch in place, use wood blocks and g-clamp through the sunroof aperture - pressure is vital to get a good bond with structural adhesive. Fill and forget. danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Autoshite product test! I've now got two apparently suitable brands of glue to try doing the roof repairs with. I'm going to test them both and see which is best for the job I'll hopefully be doing this weekend. One is JB weld which I've heard of before and it's got a very good reputation from what I've read.The other is Araldite Steel. I've not seen this particular stuff before but the brand has a good name and I've used their stuff before for model making etc.There's other types of metal glue available but some of it is pretty pricey and I only need a very small amount. Both are two part adhesives and need squeezing out onto a clean disposable surface and mixing thoroughly until it's all an even colour. For the test I've cut four similar sized sections of scrap 1mm steel sheet. I'll be bonding two pieces together in a lap joint.First job is to clean all the surfaces to be glued of dirt, rust, grease etc so I used a grinder to skim all four pieces back to clean silver steel. This has also provided a suitably rough 'keyed' surface for the glue to grab onto. Then I washed all pieces in degreaser to get rid of any grease residue etc. IMG_0707 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Next is to squeeze out equal measures of both tubes and mix together. The Araldite stuff seemed thinner and easier to mix of the two but apart from that both are the same, even in colour.Once mixed spread the glue to both surfaces to be joined together and press them together. I pressed them and gently wiggled them side to side slightly to really squish the glue into both surfaces. IMG_0708 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Once that was done I applied light weight to the joints and then leave to set. IMG_0709 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Tbh, both products seem more or less the same. Even the instructions say largely the same but I've followed them exactly just to see which one will do the better job on the car.It's not the most scientific test ever but it'll do. The JB weld says 4-6 hours until set but 15-24 hours until fully hardened.Araldite just says 2 hours until set.I'll leave both until tomorrow afternoon before I start messing around with them or trying to pull them apart but even straight after putting them together there was a good bond between the two sections on both. Just have to wait and see tomorrow... Also the second hand roof grab handles I got off eBay arrived and can now be fitted! Should tidy up the interior a bit. Honey Badger, eddyramrod, mat_the_cat and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisbon_road Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 This is a good experiment. This forum at its best, as I (at least) am going to really pay attention to your results and save me ages trying something similar. Many years ago, I stuck a new doorskin on the Vauxhall Viva with araldite. Never given a problem, but a very easy job as it holds itself on anyway. Seals it up nice to stop rot though. eddyramrod, Stanky and danthecapriman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercrocker Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I have used JB Weld a few times but not for actual body repairs. A test in a controlled environment is of great interest..... danthecapriman and eddyramrod 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Got a call from the powder coaters this morning so went down and picked up my 5 alloys and Stanky's 4 for his Saab.They all look absolutely stunning! Like a new wheel! IMG_0711 by Dan Clark, on Flickr IMG_0712 by Dan Clark, on Flickr IMG_0713 by Dan Clark, on Flickr They look fantastic imho. The guy who blasted the old paint/grime off them said they were a right bastard to do because it seems Volvo used several coats of primer which was incredibly hard and stubborn to strip off, even by blasting! I think the end result was well worth it though.Just need some new tyres now. I've also got some new roof grab handles, IMG_0714 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Which should fix this, IMG_0715 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Damage like that isn't the end of the world really but it deeply irritates my OSD! And it looks untidy so the new ones in the right colour should see that looking much better. Jim Bell, cpjitservices, alf892 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosty Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Driver's door only has blanking plates, not a handle! danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndySnapper Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Lovely jubbly Dan Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Driver's door only has blanking plates, not a handle!Hmm, maybe mine will be getting a handle then! I always thought they had a handle? I was sure my old one did. Doesn't matter, as a few of them have the centre trim missing or are also broken anyway so I've got plenty of them to replace the damage with now. eddyramrod 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyramrod Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 it deeply irritates my OSD!OCD, Shirley? Those wheels look bloody gorgeous, they're like new! danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 OCD, Shirley? Those wheels look bloody gorgeous, they're like new!OCD. That's what I meant! eddyramrod and AndySnapper 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosty Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hmm, maybe mine will be getting a handle then! I always thought they had a handle? I was sure my old one did. Doesn't matter, as a few of them have the centre trim missing or are also broken anyway so I've got plenty of them to replace the damage with now. Mine doesn't, it has two little rectangular plastic panels with fake stitching moulded in, and a raised texture in the middle. Hardly any cars I've seen have a driver's grab handle, probably so you don't whack your head on it while you're driving. The wheels look ace btw. danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Adhesive testing results are now in! I've tested these fair and square in my sterile laboratory under strict test conditions.Yeah, alright that's bollocks but I've tested them using hammers and brute force! Both adhesives were fully cured when I did this. I actually had a slight issue with the JB weld one as some of the excess glue had squidged out the sides of the metal and touched the workbench overnight. Of course this afternoon it's stuck solid to the dam bench! Took a fair bit of effort to get it off! IMG_0716 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Firstly I tested them bridging the open jaws of the vice by placing increasingly heavy items on top of the glued joint. The joint being in the centre directly under the load.I tried all sorts of heavy stuff on both and nothing caused either to break. IMG_0720 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Next I tried bending the two pieces away from each other so the joint was subjected to being ripped apart. IMG_0721 by Dan Clark, on Flickr The metal bent but the glue still holds firm. Next I put them back across the vice jaws and simply forced the glued centre down as hard as I could with my hand. IMG_0722 by Dan Clark, on Flickr IMG_0723 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Both of these pics show the Araldite glue. It did fail but took some serious effort to break it. It actually peeled off of one piece of the steel as apposed to the glue breaking. AndySnapper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 So the JB weld is the clear winner. But I might aswell carry on just to see. IMG_0725 by Dan Clark, on Flickr IMG_0726 by Dan Clark, on Flickr No sign of any cracking, peeling or breakage and this is where the Araldite failed. The metal is bending but not the glue. Here I've tried to twist the joint (in vice and pliers) but that didn't break it either. You can see the actual joint has flexed and so has the glue with it but still strong and no signs of failure. IMG_0727 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Next I put it back across the vice and resorted to violence. I smashed the joint hard with a hammer... IMG_0728 by Dan Clark, on Flickr I did it a few times and it still didn't break. IMG_0729 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Seems pointless carrying on after all that as the tiny patch on my roof I've got to fix is never going to be subjected to such abuse. I'm calling JB weld the clear winner! Although I think either would do the job here just fine.On the car I'll drill a couple of holes in the joint to fill with the adhesive too, just to beef up the joint and once it's cured I'll also smear a coat of chemical metal putty over the back (inside roof) of the whole thing, again just to be sure. Jim Bell, Shep Shepherd, eddyramrod and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Badger Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Good stuff Dan, peel testing is incredibly hard on any kind of joint like that so the weld looks good. No need to slather a load of putty on the back of the patch, just fillet the sides in with a lolly stick to create nice smooth sides, get some acetone for the cleaning of the surfaces some degeasers leave a film of polymer on the surface stopping decent adhesion acetone evaporates off quickly. The fillet increases the surface area of the joint spreading the load. Looking forward to seeing the results. danthecapriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Driver's door only has blanking plates, not a handle!Just had a look at the car and you iz right. The old smashed bases that are screwed to the roof trim are totally different to how the bases of the grab handles look. The real proof though was that I found a random blanking plate on the floor of the car when I first got it. I couldn't find what it was for so just put it in the glovebox. It's now clear that it's one of those blanks as it fits over the white screw base.Trouble is, the one Ive got is battered and scratched to fuck, the other is smashed to bits so clearly neither are of use.So I've fitted the extra grab handle I didn't need. Fixing holes are all there anyway for LHD cars and it doesn't get in the way at all getting in or out of the car. It actually looks like it's always been there tbh! So I'm calling that permanently fixed.I'm 99% positive my old saloon had a 4th grab handle here and not blanks aswell, I remember using it to swing out of the door. The other 3 grab handles are also now sorted. Two have had replacement centre trim bits (the bit that slides in and covers the fixing screws) the other has been replaced in full as it was a bit scratched and damaged. Last things I need for the interior now are a couple of the little beige trims for around the seat belts where it passes through the B and C pillar trims as they're missing. Tomorrow I'll start plugging the roof hole up.The good thing here is that since I've found that hole I put some gaffer tape over it. Since then the roof lining has stayed bone dry so I'm now sure it was this causing the damp and not the sunroof leaking. Ghosty, cpjitservices, Dirk Diggler and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Good stuff Dan, peel testing is incredibly hard on any kind of joint like that so the weld looks good. No need to slather a load of putty on the back of the patch, just fillet the sides in with a lolly stick to create nice smooth sides, get some acetone for the cleaning of the surfaces some degeasers leave a film of polymer on the surface stopping decent adhesion acetone evaporates off quickly. The fillet increases the surface area of the joint spreading the load. Looking forward to seeing the results.Will do, thanks.Access is very tight at the rear of the repair area but once I've dropped the sunroof tray out the way it should be do-able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpjitservices Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just had a look at the car and you iz right. The old smashed bases that are screwed to the roof trim are totally different to how the bases of the grab handles look. The real proof though was that I found a random blanking plate on the floor of the car when I first got it. I couldn't find what it was for so just put it in the glovebox. It's now clear that it's one of those blanks as it fits over the white screw base.Trouble is, the one Ive got is battered and scratched to fuck, the other is smashed to bits so clearly neither are of use.So I've fitted the extra grab handle I didn't need. Fixing holes are all there anyway for LHD cars and it doesn't get in the way at all getting in or out of the car. It actually looks like it's always been there tbh! So I'm calling that permanently fixed.I'm 99% positive my old saloon had a 4th grab handle here and not blanks aswell, I remember using it to swing out of the door. The other 3 grab handles are also now sorted. Two have had replacement centre trim bits (the bit that slides in and covers the fixing screws) the other has been replaced in full as it was a bit scratched and damaged.Last things I need for the interior now are a couple of the little beige trims for around the seat belts where it passes through the B and C pillar trims as they're missing. Tomorrow I'll start plugging the roof hole up.The good thing here is that since I've found that hole I put some gaffer tape over it. Since then the roof lining has stayed bone dry so I'm now sure it was this causing the damp and not the sunroof leaking.My Sunroof is sealed shut, Im not sure I want to attempt to open it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 My Sunroof is sealed shut, Im not sure I want to attempt to open it!When mine was blocked and overflowing I did contemplate doing the same as I hate sunroofs anyway!It seems ok now, so I'll leave it alone. What's it sealed with? Mastic or similar?You could try to open it, clean it up and see what happens. If it keeps leaking simply reseal it the same way.I bet yours has got blocked drain tubes and that's why it's been sealed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Shepherd Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hmm, maybe mine will be getting a handle then! I always thought they had a handle? I was sure my old one did. Doesn't matter, as a few of them have the centre trim missing or are also broken anyway so I've got plenty of them to replace the damage with now. The Volvo didn't have a driver's side front grab handle, but I retrofitted one from a scrapped 940 not long after I bought it AndySnapper and danthecapriman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Here's the rust hole after a quick skim over with a grinder. IMG_0730 by Dan Clark, on Flickr IMG_0731 by Dan Clark, on Flickr It's even bigger now as I've ground it all out to get rid of the thin corroded steel and pitted surface.I've had to improvise a bit with how I'm going to fix it as the way the sunroof drain tray attaches to the inside of the roof would make gluing a patch on from inside difficult and the tray wouldn't sit properly afterwards either. However, the fact the sunroof tray is there might well help me out here too. It's directly beneath the rust hole so what I've done is use chemical metal putty, mixed up and forced into the hole so it's sitting on the lip of the drain tray. I've continued forcing it in until it's filled the hole and the space around and under the surrounding metal of the roof skin.It's gone hard now and it's rock solid and not going anywhere. I'll then use the JB weld adhesive to fill the surface flush to the roof skin, like a filler, but it'll also bond the lot together. There should be no issues with this as the sunroof tray frame will help reinforce both the roof and this repair stopping it from moving or cracking.All the rust is now gone too so it can't continue to fester and spread again either. The only downside is that the damaged area of paint is now quite big and I don't think I'll be able to make it 100% blend in with the old paint once I touch it up.I'm probably going to get the roof and bonnet resprayed and lacquered at some stage anyway though as the old lacquer is starting to go. Richard, AndySnapper, Dirk Diggler and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Finished for the day now. IMG_0732 by Dan Clark, on Flickr IMG_0733 by Dan Clark, on Flickr I've spread a layer of the JB weld metal adhesive into and over the top of the chemical metal putty repair. It's nicely filled the little indentation of the hole. It'll take several hours to dry properly so until then I'm done.Tomorrow I'll key the surface with emery paper then give it a skim of body filler to level it all off. Then I'll rub down and paint. The interior is also now fully reassembled. I didn't really need to strip the interior in hindsight but there you go!Some of the headliner has been damaged by the damp too sadly. The fabric had peeled off the foam and the backing board had snapped in the front corner.I've used some impact adhesive to glue the back board back together, then some leftover trim spray glue from the Transit to reattach the fabric to the foam. Starting at the sunroof aperture I've then gently smoothed it outwards towards the door and windscreen to get the fabric stuck without any baggy bits or creases.All the plastic trim, handles and sun visor are also back in place with no bother. IMG_0734 by Dan Clark, on Flickr IMG_0735 by Dan Clark, on Flickr mat_the_cat, nacho man, anonymous user and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Primer time! IMG_0736 by Dan Clark, on Flickr I've given the area a rub down to key it and get rid of any high spots of the glue. Then a coat of high build filler primer. This is from an old touch up kit from Halfords, the primer is very thick and does fill small imperfections well. Though on this I think it'll need two or three coats in some places, followed by a flat down with super fine wet & dry and plenty of water. Richard, nacho man, Shep Shepherd and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthecapriman Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Waiting for paint to dry is terribly boring!!Primer is about good now, seems to have filled well so I'll let it go hard before trying to flat it off. While I'm waiting I've tried to touch up the passenger side rear wheel arch. This has a nasty dent/crease and scratches on it which will suffer I think once winter sets in and the bastard road salt comes out.Ive not even bothered trying to fix the damage as it really needs pulling out and sorting properly but I've touched in the damaged paint which had gone to bare metal in places.I think the damage was most likely from the previous owners gate! Before: IMG_0335 by Dan Clark, on Flickr After: IMG_0737 by Dan Clark, on Flickr Still there of course but a bit less noticeable and more importantly it's covered and weather proof now.Long term plan will be to have this sorted at the same time as the roof and bonnet. eddyramrod, Shep Shepherd, Burnside and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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