Roffle Range Rover Roffel - It's All Over Now! Caution: Victim established!

[Junkman]

Your HVAC is broken.

What's a HVAC?

[Ghosty]

It's an acronym for Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning.

 

In other words, fan.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

It's an acronym for Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning.

 

In other words, fan.

 

no

 

Henry Vacuum

[Eddie Honda]

In generic SRS terms, the plug under the driver's seat is the easiest favourite. The biggest bollocks I've had was laptop plugged in an OBD wouldn't do FA, so ended up swapping out the SRS module wherever it may be buried. That restored service. I think mine went south on the Honda because it had a knackered battery, had been jump-started a few times and the SRS memory had permafault. What I need to do with the old one is take it to friendly mileage-correction-laptop-type-bloke and hand over monies to have the memory wiped, or buy the electrickery boxes / clips and do it myself, or handover the price of a couple of good motahs and bend over at the main stealers for a new one.

 

Another favourite is the wiring "clock spring" around the steering column having a knackered wire.

 

Anyway, great if it's under the seat, but being a Private Frazer....

[Junkman]

It's an acronym for Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning.

 

In other words, fan.

 

Interesting, because heating and ventilation actually work fine, in automatic as well as manual mode.

Not sure about the A/C, it felt cold when I tried with the recirc button pressed as well, but it's hard to tell with the outside temperature being so low.

Not physically checked yet whether the compressor clutch actually switches, but I had the impression it does, since there was a very brief dip in rpm

when I switched the A/C on.

[Junkman]

Your HVAC is broken.

 

The book and exclamation mark on the display panel indicate an issue, not wanting to be some horrific drunken pub bore (DESPITE HAVING ACTUALLY OWNED A FUCKING P38) I shall not tell you what could possibly go wrong if you don't investigate this.

Nor will I tell you where you should start.

Nor will I tell you what else concerns me.

 

Good luck with your perfect car.

 

If someone finally offered some advice regarding MY car, the pub level nonsense would thankfully be replaced with something meaningful at last.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

This won't have an airbag cable under the seats, since it doesn't have side airbags. No pre-tensioners on the belts either. 

 

If the steering wheel clock spring was knackered, would that prevent the radio buttons working? Because they work. 

[Tayne]

Interesting, because heating and ventilation actually work fine, in automatic as well as manual mode.

 

 

 

As you don't seem to believe me have a look at the HVAC section of your manual, you will find a guide to all the symbols (try page 80).

 

This is the one you are looking for.

 

 

This is Conrad's photo of YOUR car.

 

1995 Range Rover by Conrad Conelrad, on Flickr

 

Note the book symbol.

 

Like the SRS light, it indicates there is a problem.

 

Yours Sincerely, 

Crashing Pub Bore.

[Junkman]

I do believe you that there is a fault.

However, the heating and ventilation appears to be working.

So, what fault could it be and how big will the crater be if I ignore it?

[Junkman]

This won't have an airbag cable under the seats, since it doesn't have side airbags. No pre-tensioners on the belts either. 

 

If the steering wheel clock spring was knackered, would that prevent the radio buttons working? Because they work. 

 

Would it not have a sensor in the seat checking whether it's occupied or not?

[Tayne]

I do believe you that there is a fault.

However, the heating and ventilation appears to be working.

So, what fault could it be and how big will the crater be if I ignore it?

 

 

 

Best case, it was parked up at the museum, leaves/crap fell on the scuttle (visible in under bonnet photo) and air flow inwards is restricted.

I'd also look at the pollen filters at this point...

 

Worst case, the o-rings on the heater matrix have failed and its pissing coolant into the driver's footwell (carpet looks stained on interior photos).

 

You can use this guide to check how well the system is functioning.

 

 

 

This is really a straight forward functional test. You should have a small torch, possibly reading glasses if you use them, and maybe a straightened paper clip. Technical isn't it?

When finished you will have tested :-

the Air Con compressor (and chilled air output),

the in-car temperature sensor,

the solar gain sensor,

both blower motors,

the distribution flaps/motor,

the recirculation flaps,

and the blend flaps that mix hot and cold air.

 

For these first two checks, the car and engine can be hot or cold.

Identify the in-car temperature sensor, this is behind the grill positioned just below the clock. There is only one sensor.

Peer through the grill with the torch, and glasses if required. Look sideways, there is a small fan, like a drum with blades on the outside, not like a propeller / radiator fan. Without starting the engine, switch the ignition on, you should just hear the fan running, and be able to see the blur of the blades moving. As a last resort, gently, GENTLY, probe sideways through the grill with the end of the paper clip. Withdraw when it vibrates!

The fan is there to improve the effectiveness of the sensor, by drawing air across it. Fan failure won't stop the system working, but the control of the internal temperature will be poor. The heat will stay on too long, or off too long, leading to wide variations from the set temperature.

 

Recirculation flaps.

You need quiet for this. Turn the ignition on, but without the engine running. Wait for the brake pressurisation motor to stop running (30 to 45 seconds). Turn the Fan Speed (blower motors) down to minimum.

Operate the recirculation control and listen for the flaps moving. The noise will only last for 5 seconds or so. There is one flap on each blower motor. The blower motors are underneath the dashboard, above your kness rather than ankles, but against the outside of the car. The flap motors are very quiet. The flaps will move again when the recirculation control is restored. Repeat as required.

If you cannot hear them, you will have to test them while the car is moving. When the car is warm, switch the recirculation control on. The car will become noticeably stuffy within about 5 minutes. Switch recirculation off, and the atmosphere will clear.

 

Now have the engine at normal operating temperature, ticking over, with the A/C switched on.

I assume the book symbol is still showing. The system will self check every time the vehicle is restarted.

If the fault disappears, so will the symbol.

Compressor / chilled air faults will be self evident throughout these tests, no Cold Air.

If this is apparent, open the bonnet, and with the engine running, have someone switch the A/C on and off. There will be an audible click from the Compressor as the clutch engages. Placement of the compressor varies from engine to engine.

Remember, in the absence of chilled air, either through a faulty system, or because the A/C is switched off, the system will substitute external air, at the ambient temperature. In some parts of the world (rarely in the UK) this can be hot. Thus sometimes "cold" air is hot.

 

Distribution Flaps.

Set both Driver and Passenger temperatures to 16.

Turn the Fan up to get a decent airflow, that is half or threequarter speed.

Using the manual buttons, direct the air towards the footwells. Check with your hand that the airflow is of similar strength and temperature.

Note any side to side differences.

The air issues from triangular holes on the sides of the transmission tunnel above your ankles.

Check there is no air flow from the Facia or Screen outlets.

Use the buttons again and divert the air towards the facia vents, remenber to have them open, check again for flow and temperature.

It takes a few seconds for the Distribution flaps to move to the new position.

Check there is no flow from the non selected outlets (Footwell and Screen).

Use the buttons again and divert the air to the screen, check again for flow and temperature, especially any side to side differences.

Assuming the airflow moved correctly from footwell to facia to screen, and DID NOT appear from any outlets that were not selected at the time, you have proved the Distribution flap / Motor works.

 

Blower Fans.

With the air issuing from whichever vents you find most convenient to monitor, turn the Fan speed up and down.

Check the air flow varies on both sides of the car. There are two Blower motors, one Left, one Right. They should both change together as you adjust the speed.

Assuming they do, you have just proved the blower fans work. Leave them on half or threequarter speed.

 

Blend Flaps.

With the air issuing from whichever vents you find most convenient to test, raise the Drivers side temperature to 22, wait a few seconds, can you feel a temperature difference when comparing Driver side air ouput to Passenger side air ouput?

Raise the Drivers side to 28, there should be an obvious difference in temperature.

If the Drivers side airflow temperature has not changed, the Driver side blend flap is faulty.

 

Reset the Driver side temperature to 16, then repeat the test, varying the Passenger side temperature.

If the Passenger side airflow temperature does not change, the Passenger side blend flap is faulty.

 

Solar Gain.

The solar gain sensor is a black button on the centre top of the dashboard, near the windscreen (near the Alarm LED).

With engine ticking over, and A/C on, switch it to AUTO mode. Adjust both temperatures to a medium/ low setting, (16 to 22) and let the system stabilise, with the blowers running but not too fast. Shine a bright torch on the Solar Gain sensor, it may take 30 seconds or so, but you will hear the system adjust to compensate for the additional heat, probably by increasing the fan speed. Remove the torch and the system will adjust back, give it a minute or so.

If the system compensated for the additional heat, the solar gain sensor works.

 

In car temperature sensor.

This is situated behind the grill below the clock.

With the system set as for Solar gain, heat up the Cigar Lighter, and hold the hot end in front of the grill, but not close enough to melt the plastic!

1 to 2 cm should be fine.

If the system compensates for the additional heat, the in-car sensor works.

 

Additional information.

When on Auto, if a number is showing in the temperature setting, the system will control the position of the blend flaps, dependant on internal temperature, external air temperature, etc.

If you adjust the setting to LO, the blend flaps are forced to the end of their range, to deliver ONLY cold air, whatever the actual temperature is, inside or outside.

Remember Cold air will be hot if you are in a hot climate and the A/C is switched off.

If you adjust the setting to HI, the blend flaps are forced to the end of their range, to deliver ONLY heated air, whatever the actual temperature is, inside or outside.

 

That's it, you should now know what functionality is absent, and can start checking repair costs, or read the (future) article on known faults, repairs and workarounds.

[Tayne]

Whilst you are checking stuff, get the multimeters out and test the alternator and battery.

 

You have two electrical warnings and these things are very, very, very voltage sensitive.

 

When my alternator started failing mine decided it would throw some error messages across the dashboard.

 

I panicked at the first one, panicked more at the second and third but I soon realised the mechanical bits were ok but I had an electrical problem.

I got windows, engine, gearbox, coolant, EAS, SRS and sunroof messages (on a non-sunroof car).

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

Would it not have a sensor in the seat checking whether it's occupied or not?

 

 

Appears not:

 

[Tayne]

The top and bottom of the radiators are plastic, your looks original and appears to have stress cracking on the top.

Or spiders webs.

There appears to be a weep at the top hose connection and your hoses seem.. original.

I also don't like the brown tidemark across the plenum cover.

 

My radiator split across the top (8" crack) whilst on the motorway, that incident possibly contributed to the engine's later demise. 

[Tayne]

It also appeared to be sitting very low in the museum pictures, I believe you said two suspension air bags had been replaced.

 

The other two are also likely to need attention and I'd be checking the system operation to find leaks elsewhere or a lazy compressor.

[Felly Magic]

This didn't come from someone called Lawson or Hudson did it?

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

The top and bottom of the radiators are plastic, your looks original and appears to have stress cracking on the top.

Or spiders webs.

There appears to be a weep at the top hose connection and your hoses seem.. original.

I also don't like the brown tidemark across the plenum cover.

 

My radiator split across the top (8" crack) whilst on the motorway, that incident possibly contributed to the engine's later demise. 

 

 

They are cobwebs, I brushed a bunch off before taking the photo. But they do look like cracks in the pictures.

[Junkman]

All four bellows are newish. It sits perfectly level as soon as the engine is running and goes beautifully through all aerobics,

it also switches between street and Autobahn mode as it should while driving it and it responds noticeably to the lock button.

There are no hisses or anything and the compressor sounds normal, i.e. hardly audible and it never runs for long.

The warning light never came on again, unless it was supposed to.

 

The front carpets were the very first thing I checked when I first viewed the car and they were dry as a bone in the Atacama.

I just checked them again and they still are, despite the heater was on constantly when the car was driven.

I do not believe the heater core is leaking, because I really carefully checked this out.

 

It does maintain a constant inside temperature and reponds well to left/right temperature selection, as well as airflow up, down,

or demist. It is not fogging up the windscreen when demist is selected. I haven't checked the rear passenger air outlets yet.

 

Engine temperature has been fine so far, I topped the coolant up with ca. 1.5 litres. I booked this under the slight coolant leak

at the top radiator hose. Keep checking this.

 

I saw the brown tidemark on the plenum, too, but it appears to be dirt. I checked the oil several times and it looks fine, also the

level hasn't changed, but I'll keep an eye on it. It is not belching out oil fumes when I open the filler cap when the engine is warm

and the engine rpm changes noticeably when I do this, as it should.

The air filter looks OK. The throttle body/airflow/throttle position thing could do with a clean, but it's running fine and the

exhaust tip is clean. Fuel consumption is what I'd expect it to be under the circumstances I used it so far, i.e not single digits,

to the contrary.

[Tayne]

Your heating issue may be down to vent flaps seizing up, try cycling through all settings a few times with the ignition on but engine off.

 

If all the suspension air bags have been replaced then it should be ok, leaving it with leaking bags tends to stress out the rest of the system.

If you drop it right down to access height then instantly raise it back up to full extended height, switch off, get out, shut all doors and then vigorously rock the car from side to side you should hear no psht psht noises and it should stay at extended height.

It should never try to level itself once switched off.

Also if you load it up with something heavy, such as 15sqm of porcelain tiles, it will level itself once the engine is on and all doors are closed.

You will arrive at your destination level and once unloaded the rear will then sit higher. Should your suspension be healthy it will stay like that all day and friends and colleagues will ask about your Range Rover dragster.

[Bren]

 

Slipped liner is the biggest worry - not HVAC.

 

You have large conjones for taking the plunge.

[Junkman]

I fail to muster slipped liner worryage. if it happens, it'll tip the scale at the bridge quite nicely, thank you,

but not before I removed the gearbox for P6 adaptation.

 

Also, for the past 35 years in my automotive life, a problem was a problem when there was a problem

and not when some silicone idiot flashed a bloody error message at me.

I'm quite inclined to continue in this style for the next 35 years.

[Rusty_Rocket]

As said, the ! Symbol on the screen is likely to be a failed blend motor. Change all the directional settings to see if it frees up. My advice, though is to ignore it as long as you get heat in the winter and cool in the summer.

You'll need a man with the correct computer to diagnose the SRS fault. As for a loose wire under the seats  ... please don't look under the driver's seat. You'll end up doing the face Charlton Heston did at the end of Planet Of The Apes.

[dollywobbler]

This is proper edge-of-the-seat stuff. Brilliant. I have driven a 2.5 diesel manual, and was thoroughly underwhelmed. That's German engineering for you. I imagine the top-whack V8 is much better.

 

I once met one of the chaps who worked on testing the P38. He would actually spit feathers when talking about the electrics. He still fumes about them going ahead for production with so many known faults.

[Stevebrookman]

I had the HVAC symbol on mine one-I was winter and I hadn't used the car for a few weeks-battery was low.

 

The car started but HVAC symbol was on-next time I started it, it went off.

 

This is just a niggle!

 

I have a very slight weep from the heater matrix "o" seals-hardly anything. I've stuffed a cloth under there for the last seven years. Have the "o" rings so will change them in a few years.

 

Many solutions for these problems on

 

landyzone.co.uk

 

My air-con stopped working a few years ago. The bonnet insulation wore a hole through the air con pipe going across the top of the engine-took ten years though!

 

Steve

[Rocket88]

I am a recovery driver. For number of cars built, the products of Land Rover that appear on the back of my truck far outstrip any other manufacturer.

[chaseracer]

picnic tables?

 

Foldy-down tailgate for enjoying the Fortnums hamper at the gymkhana or point-to-point, donchaknow?

 

Or currywurst 'n' chips, depending.

 

[drum]

I am a recovery driver. For number of cars built, the products of Land Rover that appear on the back of my truck far outstrip any other manufacturer.

I read that as "I am a recovering driver".

 

If you do venture onto Landyzone, I feel obliged to warn you, as an almost friend, that for every decent poster there are 37 idiots.

 

I must also confess to having a guilty pleasure observing the unfolding of "all modernz R" shit Mr J's relationship with a P38.

[cort16]

I think these still have the comparible reliability of a Toyota Corolla up against the new range rovers.

[billyboy406v6]

Ignore the learned gentlemen/ladies, and any interweb myths and legends and enjoy that lovely piece of kit !

[Rusty_Rocket]

They are not myths.

 

What I find most amazing, is that Herr Junkman, who has spent years educating us that cars stopped being produced after 1986, and leather is only used for the seating of peasants, is surprised at the ribbing he is getting.

The raillery will continue and I wouldn't be surprised if I woke up and realised this is all a figment of my imagination.

 

In fact, the only reason these things don't have their own banger class is that few of them would make it on to the track in the first place.  Particularly if there are any wireless doorbells nearby.