Change to a camper?

[Philyc]

Evening all.

 

The wife and I are contemplating changing our 2001 golf estate for a camper of some sort.

 

The reasons are ease of travel on holiday either living out of it properly or using it to break up the long drive to my parents in France. Also so I can load my triathlon gear in it and use it for weekends at competitions and weekend trips away.

 

So nothing big, not like a motor home but more like a T2/T4 vw with a pop up roof.

 

It would have to have two front seats and at least 2 rear which are able to take child seats. Enough room to sleep 4 potentially and keep luggage and/or my tri bike and tools.

 

Does definately not need to be new. Shite is good as I'm happy to do work on it and I love retro/out of fashion cars. Just nothing structural or welding, due to lack of kit.

 

I have no experience of these. I know vw are expensive so am open to other options. The Mrs would be happy to spend around 5-6k also not forgetting the golf estate we can use as a px.

 

Any feedback and tips gratefully received. I am based just north of ipswich if anyone has anything lying around!

 

Cheers all.

[Zantimisfit]

Suntor Marina or Bedford Beagle are the rational options.

[cobblers]

I've got a VW t25 for sale, but you can't put child seats in the back of it. You could fit seatbelts in the rear pillars and do it though.

 

From experience converting VW vans (t4, t5 etc) None of the normal "rock and roll" beds have anywhere near proper seatbelt setups. They're all horribly unsafe. I'm talking seatbelt reels mounted on the middle of a meter lenght of 20mm box section using m8 bolts and stacks of 20 washers to space them out. Absolutely horrific. When I sat in them whilst travelling I was conflicted as to whether I was safer with the belt on or with it off.

 

If you need a van with proper safe rear seats then you need to either buy something where the bed itself cost £1500, or something with factory rear seats that somehow make a bed.

 

EDIT: This is the type of bed in most aftermarket conversions that have rear belts. There's about  half a dozen people making similar beds, they're all really not safe IMO -  you need to get something with either factory belts, or properly approved ones.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VIVARO-ROCK-AND-ROLL-CAMPER-BED-WITH-SEAT-BELTS-BUY-IT-NOW-JUST-225-/331981481125?hash=item4d4ba364a5:g:kZAAAOSw0QFXCg3N

[Philyc]

The marina and the Beagle look great but the Mrs want something taller so more van shaped.

 

Noted with the seatbelt issue. I am aware of it and know it needs to be sturdy if I can find something for the right price is I'd be happy paying for proper belts to be put in.

 

Our old neighbours had a Mercedes van with seats on rails in the back that could be moved around etc. That would be an option if of a bed is somehow in the back and a pop roof... bike can go on a rack on the boot.

[Tickman]

....EDIT: This is the type of bed in most aftermarket conversions that have rear belts. There's about  half a dozen people making similar beds, they're all really not safe IMO -  you need to get something with either factory belts, or properly approved ones.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VIVARO-ROCK-AND-ROLL-CAMPER-BED-WITH-SEAT-BELTS-BUY-IT-NOW-JUST-225-/331981481125?hash=item4d4ba364a5:g:kZAAAOSw0QFXCg3N

Wow, I also wonder how many are safe when 'professionally' fixed to the van floor with a couple of M6 bolts or self tapping screws!

[dieselnutjob]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322282134081

 

 

Something like this but I would go for the 8V 2.0 HDI rather than 16V.

[mercrocker]

If you are not too fussed about full "motorhome" capability why not look at a high top van (for permanent extra storage / sleeping potential).    Build yourself a box along the length of the van, say up to the rear doors and about six foot back in, then make a bit that slides out from this to make up a full bed.    Child seating/security can be taken care of with proper PSV/MPV  seats mounted up behind the front passenger.    

 

Add an awning for longer stop-overs - most of this kit can be stashed in the box seat/bed structure.   If the extra seating is on some type of rail/quick demount and the bed is not permanently built-in you have the use of almost a full van the rest of the time.   Side windows are nice but use up wall space and tend to leak on aftermarket conversions so I would not be too worried about those.   

 

I use a T25 with a Holdsworth conversion on a factory high top which ticks many of the above boxes but it is fully built-in and offers no passenger security past the cab itself.   I wouldn't be paying Dubber tax now either - I had mine when they were still unfashionable rot-boxes.   

 

All I would add is once you have one you never want to be without a camper.....

[AMC Rebel]

Don't bother with a T2 unless you are a hardcore dubber.  I had one of the last of the bay windows - 79 panel van.  It was slow, extremely thirsty and freezing cold as well as being rusty and unreliable.  I suspect the newer the better but seemingly all Dubs have big scene tax.

[oldcars]

Always fancied one like this 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/89-Talbot-EXPRESS-1000-petrol-camper-retro-cool-classic-van-motorhome-vintage-/131914825047?hash=item1eb6bc7d57:g:V6EAAOSwgZ1XuF-d

 

But the kids seatbelt thing has always put me off.

[barefoot]

Don't bother with a T2 unless you are a hardcore dubber.   I had one of the last of the bay windows - 79 panel van.  It was slow, extremely thirsty and freezing cold as well as being rusty and unreliable.  I suspect the newer the better but seemingly all Dubs have big scene tax.

 

 

I too have one of the last of the bay windows - a '79 Dormraker.  It is slow, extremely thirsty but the heaters are scorchio, it has no rust, is extremely reliable and the whole is considerably more than the sum of its parts. I have had it for twenty years and will never sell it.

 

I am a hardcore dubber.

[JohnDeere]

Wow, I also wonder how many are safe when 'professionally' fixed to the van floor with a couple of M6 bolts or self tapping screws!

 

At least the eBay ad shows you can fit a chemical toilet right under the seat for when you crap yourself in a near-miss accident. How on earth could a van fitted with one of these pass an MoT, when the merest hint of rust near a proper seatbelt mounting = fail ?

[Felly Magic]

Plenty of crew cab type vans about these days with factory double seat behind the driver. Late model LDV Convoy with the 2.4 Transit Turbot lump perhaps?

[Rocket88]

 

 

Buy my P100, remove bed, bolt caravan to it....................

[Tickman]

Always fancied one like this 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/89-Talbot-EXPRESS-1000-petrol-camper-retro-cool-classic-van-motorhome-vintage-/131914825047?hash=item1eb6bc7d57:g:V6EAAOSwgZ1XuF-d

 

But the kids seatbelt thing has always put me off.

The rear bench seats convert to two forward facing seats and some do have seat belts, mine has lap belts but I have seen three point belts in some. 

[Mally]

My son has a T25, Had the rear seat belts done by a garage that specialises in them.

Did them in a few hours, very good job. Can probably get the number if necessary.

Have had a couple of CF Autosleepers, one pop up roof, one massive fibre glass thing, seat belts, forget it!

Also run a Tranny van with 6 seats now.

 

Would advise the smaller end of the market. Big means more fuel and hard to park.

Am in no way advising it but there is a Rickman Rancher advertised at the moment somewhere. Side facing seats and no belts though so pretty useless.

[AMC Rebel]

I too have one of the last of the bay windows - a '79 Dormraker.  It is slow, extremely thirsty but the heaters are scorchio, it has no rust, is extremely reliable and the whole is considerably more than the sum of its parts. I have had it for twenty years and will never sell it.

 

I am a hardcore dubber.

  While not wanting to do a total thread derail - how do you have heat?  Mine was a standard 1.6 with heat exchangers of  unknown origin and no extra electric fan assistance.  I know they could be had with fancy underslung petrol burning eberspacher heaters - indeed I half removed one from a camper in the scrappies once before deciding it would no doubt result in a fiery inferno of death given my spannering skills.

[barefoot]

It's the heat exchangers.

OEM versions have a mass of aluminium fins, the later replacement versions have about two.

 

 

After years of pissing about with crappy H/Es I found a nice old pair and fitted those instead. The difference is astonishing. When they eventually rot out, (the central pipe is aluminium with mild steel ends & a mild steel jacket), I shall take them to PD Gough or similar and have them re-built in stainless.

 

When camped up with electric hook up, we have the smallest oil filled radiator on the planet.

[Philyc]

Thanks for all the help. I would stick to the smaller end of the market as in a camper which I can still park in a normal parking space. I was advised against a high top because of handling issues in the wind etc.

 

So just need to keep a look out for one which has decent rear seats.

 

I was also told that with vw be the better one to go for was a t4 as they are more reliable and still relatively new but cheap too

[barefoot]

T4 is definitely the VW bargain at the mo.

Crash tested RnR beds are available.

High tops will suffer from reduced mpg too.

IMHO a pop top is essential.

[mercrocker]

My T25 does about 22-25 MPG with its hi roof.   Handling-wise I have not noticed any issues and I have had it over the QE bridge before it shut one afternoon.   Across the bridge, then, I should have said!    

 

This is a factory hi top here - not one of those up-ended trawlers some conversions seem to have.   Height barriers are a bitch, 'tis true, but the one advantage I have over a push-up is permanent storage space each end of the van.   Enough for picnic tables, chairs, heater, spare clothing and all the bedding, in fact.  

 

Its horse for courses, really but without some kind of height increase van-living is quite literally a pain in the arse.

[Rocket88]

More in the neck, I would have thought.................

[Bfg]

don't know if you've seen the topic < stealth camping > ,  but I've been very pleased with my LWB Chrysler Voyagers, which in 2.5 diesel form is very economical, and a very capable long distance tourer.  Second hand prices are modest despite their being robust vehicles.  I'm still wondering whether I should properly fit it out as a camper, or whether to just continue using as is.. a stealth camper. 

 

Interior height as standard is 48" which is of course normally used to seat seven. At eight foot long inside x50" wide (more at shoulder level) it's a good size to custom build yourself something similar to a Dormobile. 

[Mally]

Have had a push up and an up-ended trawler.

Certainly blew the trawler about over the M62.

[dollywobbler]

T4 is only a bargain in Volkswagen van terms! They still seem hideously expensive to me. Sure, ones with decent engines are also decent to drive, but a third gen Transit isn't bad either, and much cheaper. Sure they rot, but so do Volkswagens...

 

Neighbours has a short third gen facelift with high top that he fitted out himself. He loves it.

[Philyc]

I like transits. The wife isn't too sure.

 

The idea of using something like the voyager is good and would be ideal if it was just me and the Mrs but we need more space now with the child and the wife's ambition to acquire another.

 

I'll have another look. A t25 or t4 would be great but with funds not being huge I don't think it's realistic

[Bfg]

^ sorry I missed your original point about child seats. 

 

I'd agree small vans might have been Ok in the 1950's & 60's but nowadays we're all used to very much more space.  There's probably more in the Voyager than in a VW because of having no engine in the back, but still many a young family are very happy with a combi.  Admittedly if I were planning for 2 + 2  then I'd also want more accommodation, and in practical terms that means bunks for the children, which in turn means either a pop-up or high top ... or dad sleeping in the awning !

 

The most spacious van I've personally owned was the VW LT28, which was simply a big box with a wedgy front. Great space utilisation.!  Many have been home converted ...but somehow even those which were professionally done also seem to look 'home converted'.  That may be OK to use but it sure does curb it's subsequent resale value.  

 

Moving on..  To convert an ambulance might be one way to go.  However 'Google images' search "shite motor caravan" brings up some great and often brilliantly weird n brilliant vehicles. Such vehicles would imprint (hopefully wonderful) memories and imagination into your children's minds for life. !  ..So much more so than yet another boring white van. 

 

I'd have to agree with car-park height restrictions being an absolute pain. After the LT28.. I owned a high top Renault Trafic.  Easy to drive, reasonable economical, and actually not too bad in cross winds for such a lightweight n narrow van, but it's surprising just how many tourist sites and sea-sides simply block their car parking to high sided vehicles. OK if it were just the two of you because you can get the bicycles out and ride into town ..but that's less than practical with baby bags.

 

If I might suggest.. the following, in these colours,  looks a true shiter's camper 

 

...complete with bunks at roof level (in the pop-top)  

Many other pop-tops on photobucket < here >

 

If planning to convert yourself - a word of advice :  keep it ridiculously simple.  I learnt that (again) I've spent too much time trying to get something nice, only to find the cost and the time doing it has run away from me..  End result = No time to enjoy it before the summer has faded away  ..leaving me demotivated and with yet another unfinished / unused project.   Much better to do the basic minimum, test the layout and enjoy the fun, then next opportunity to make changes and do a bit more, ditto, ditto, until you're happy enough to sell this one and buy another           

 

btw  VW especially the smaller ones were never renown for good fuel economy. With a couple of young'uns on board your budget will most likely become ultra sensitive to such matters. 

 

VW built their name on being relatively* solid and reliable at a time when the British motor industry was on perpetual strike and quality went out the window.  So, the choice was buy German quality* or Japanese complexity.  US imports didn't go around corners and drunk too much fuel, French vehicles were too quirky, and the Italian offerings had even worse (!) rust and reliability issues than the British.  Japanese cars and small vans of that era all seemed to have tiny but high spec. dohc aluminium engines - which few of your local mechanics in England or Europe understood.. so faced with main-dealer or no mechanic.. customers were put off.  

 

Thereafter, (as the British motor industry crumbled faster than the rusty wheel-arches of their cars) other manufacturers saw the light : improve their shit or go bust.. The Japanese focused their efforts on quality control and electrics (adding lots of gadgets).. And the Germans on rust prevention and refining fuel injection systems (while any other moderated their quirkiness).   In modern* vehicles we are fortunate to benefit from each. 

 

Bfg

[Mally]

I like transits. The wife isn't too sure.

 

 

 

We have run a transit for 9 years as a race van.

An half decent one would cost all of your available cash and probably have around 100,000 on the clock.

Someone has bought one on here recently but I can't find it at the mo.

They are very nice to drive, and can be very good or a PIA.

DMF problems, rust problems, size of the thing.

Ours had a new flywheel and clutch before we bought it and we have done 90,000 in it so any time now!

There are some decent conversions about, but the better they are the more they cost.

[Dave_Q]

If you fancy a t4 but can't afford check out the Mercedes Vito - the mk1 is based on the T4 platform with Merc engines.

 

It has 250% of the rust of a T4, with 50% less scene tax. Often available as a "duoliner" with factory rear seats with 3 x 3 point seatbelts.

[daveb47]

How about this

[barefoot]

T4 is only a bargain in Volkswagen van terms! They still seem hideously expensive to me...

 

...a third gen Transit isn't bad either, and much cheaper. Sure they rot, but so do Volkswagens...

 

 

I concur, but when it comes to sell on, a converted T4 will have accumulated some serious scene tax and be worth a millionty pounds,

whereas a third generation Transit will still be a rusty old converted van.

 

Makes no sense, but them's the rules!