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1993 500 SEC V8 land yacht - it's vaguely for sale/swap (too big), but using it now.

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#31 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:59 PM

Last job today - swapped the roof console, having (as mentioned earlier) successfully blown the delay circuit when changing bulbs somehow (or revealed an existing fault, but I think I did it). So... although the design is the same, Mercedes REALLY cheapened the console in later W140s.

 

Differences:

 

Aluminium that oxidises for the -ve connector

No plastic cover over the PCB

No brass inserts on body mounts

Single-piece lens covers of lower-grade plastic for the courtesy and map lights rather than two pieces per side with double diffusers on a clearer plastic

 

Now this means that I'm going to continue searching for the correct type, as if you're going to be nerdy about things like 500 SEC badges on early model year cars, details like that really matter. I wonder where else they cheapened components.

 

Having said that - cheapened or not, the lights are really bright and working on both sides and both doors again. I remember the changes made to the R129 for the 1996/7 MY redesigns. Be fun to track all the changes and see how they affect the overall feel of the cars.


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#32 ONLINE   trigger

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:25 PM

Looks a nice motor that, much nicer than a XJ-S in my opinion (Sorry Jag fans), they are a big car though, a lad at work has a K plate 300 SE in the same colour blue and he needs a whole car park just to himself.

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#33 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 09:42 AM

The coupé is apparently BIGGER than the saloon. Yet there's still no rear legroom!

Does anyone know anyone with a C140 who can confirm how the seats should tilt. I think they're supposed to slide forward electrically when tilted, but don't at the moment - I've tried resetting the motor, and I suspect a switch or control cable to a switch has failed.


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#34 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 11:14 AM

Back in 2002 I acquired a LHD S350d for £500 that turned out to be a 1995 car - out of long term storage, there was a 'story' behind it. A superb beast, I flipped it within 2 days but in black with silver/black French plates it did look quite magnificent - they look a lot better than the W126 saloon that has aged very badly.


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#35 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 01:17 PM

Today's progress - tidy the accessory wiring from the Becker radio, swear at the person who used self-tapping bolts to fit a non-C140 bracket to hold the tuner (thought it was in an odd place) instead of the factory mount points, make note to rustproof and fit rubber grommets in holes left (exacerbated by them having clearly measured once, cut twice), and vacuum the sand from the boot. Then to get some waxoyl into the seams and replace the trim until I've got time to diagnose the soft-close on the doors.

 

Discovery - the seat occupancy pad switches are (understandably) worn. Hence the erratic seatbelt butler behaviour. I think a future task will be to remove both front seats and do a full rebuild, as that's going to be the only way to ensure heating and occupancy works correctly and it should restore the forward tilt/slide mechanism. Waaaaaaay down the list though.

 

Droplinks are noisy, I may need to get help on that as the car is too long for the ramp. How long? If I park it next to the SLK bootlids lined up, the SLK nose ends just forward of the SEC windscreen...


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#36 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 08:12 PM

Having put the boot trim back in...

 

IMG_1484.JPG

 

Fixing some unusual behaviour from the lights and taking stock of what work is needed on the body...

 

First, I don't think the 30 year warranty would cover this... It is a shame Mercedes weren't more proactive with their warranty where bodywork is concerned.

 

IMG_1474.JPG

 

IMG_1475.JPG

 

IMG_1477.JPG

 

IMG_1478.JPG

 

And some other bits to attend to.

 

IMG_1480.JPG

 

IMG_1481.JPG

 

That's because when the sunroof moves forward it lifts lightly and scuffs against the roof or surround. Must work out why.

 

IMG_1486.JPG

 

Now, flashy indicator weirdness...

 

IMG_1487.JPG

 

So far this is the only corroded wiring I've found, going into what I think is the wiper control box but can't remember.

 

IMG_1488.JPG

 

Into the fusebox and...

 

IMG_1489.JPG

 

There's the N10 relay. I suspect it's got an internal failure - hazards with ignition off, fine, with ignition on, fast-flashing nearside (bulbs are fine). Lights on, the indicators flash sometimes, one flash. I could do some tests, or I could do what I usually do...

 

Now, A/C is working, but struggles to maintain this kind of differential.

 

IMG_1490.JPG

 

How redundant are those tiny LCD displays. The old wheels with numbers on work just fine.

 

Let's have a chat.

 

IMG_1495.JPG

 

IMG_1496.JPG

 

IMG_1497.JPG

 

IMG_1498.JPG

 

Actually not much to report, as the C140 at this age is still pretty analogue.

 

Found a cupholder!

 

IMG_1491.JPG

 

It ain't half hot mum...

 

IMG_1501.JPG


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#37 OFFLINE   richardmorris

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 08:24 PM

What does the warranty cover then? I've been quoted £200 a wing for mine to be painted. I'm going to ask them for a price for the whole front to be done.
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#38 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 08:47 PM

What does the warranty cover then? I've been quoted £200 a wing for mine to be painted. I'm going to ask them for a price for the whole front to be done.

 

 

If the car has full Mercedes history, and has had regular body inspections, and so on, they apparently do make a contribution to bodywork repairs, but only at Mercedes workshops, and given the UK's salt roads, stonechips, attitudes to cars and attitudes to customers, it's not well implemented. People don't maintain, and dealers don't care.

Bet it's awesome in Germany though.

 

Just priced up the relay - aha, now there's an expensive bit. Wonder how it compares to a brand new BMW LCM or similar. Anyway, secondhand to test the theory, I think.


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#39 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:08 AM

Testing uploading from phone...

image.jpeg
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#40 ONLINE   dean36014

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:51 AM

That really is a beautiful car, still got hankerings for another Merc. Maybe next year when daughter has finished uni.


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#41 ONLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:34 AM

That really is a beautiful car, still got hankerings for another Merc. Maybe next year when daughter has finished uni.

 

I'm not convinced. I consider the W126 coupe one of the best of the larger two-doors, but these just look too, well, hefty. Nice to see it being fettled to good health though.


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#42 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:43 AM

I'm not convinced. I consider the W126 coupe one of the best of the larger two-doors, but these just look too, well, hefty. 

 

 

That's because they are, well, hefty...

 

The weird bootlid does it no favours - if anything the W140 tail lights with full strip should be on the coupé, and this should be on the saloon. It's still a good wedge shape, though, and due to the width, looks low even though it towers over something like the SLK.


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#43 OFFLINE   xtriple

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:52 PM

The 140 coupé is probably one of my least favourite Mercedes 2 door offerings. It is TOOOOOO big! No, forget that, they are fucking massive and this is coming from a chap with a Bentley - they dwarf the Brooklands! But, they are so well equipped, refined and very capable I forgive them for being fugly old Hectors. :)

 

The 126 SEC is a thing of rare beauty and should not be mentioned in the same breath as the 140 ! :) 

 

The entire 140 range to my mind was too big and brought out just at precisely the wrong time as well. But the tech they hold is stunning and when I went to look at new ones in the local MB showroom, I loved the double glazing and all the little, subtle tricks and treats they offered. Fantastic cars for sure and one that I feel looks more at home today than it did when new as 'ordinary' cars have got bigger and BIGGER the Mercedes looks more in proportion :)


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#44 OFFLINE   purplebargeken

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 04:00 PM

Handsome looking beast but seemingly complex to my eyes.

 

Liking++. Never had a Merc or actually driven one  :shock:



#45 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 04:37 PM

Thing for me is that a Mercedes is layers of stuff, whereas many cars are spaghetti.

 

Don't know why, but I see each subsystem in the car clearly, as a distinct unit. There's a fault with the PSE or closing assist? I can see in my head all the elements of it, and how they interact. Why is this different to a VW, Jaguar or whatever, I don't know, it just is. You open the electronic modules and everything is there, neat. You look at the suspension and you know that as long as you're replacing genuine with genuine, it'll be like playing with Lego, not trying to glue an airfix kit together.

 

Ultimately it's about being technical, not an artist, with cars. Mercedes are logical. Excruciatingly so. There are a LOT of subsystems and parts to keep track of, sure, but they are very good and very simple in isolation - the pneumatics are like a high school Fischer Technik project, the electronics are plug & play (at least until Canbus), everything is reasonably accessible.

 

Of course on a car this size you can practically climb into the doors to work on them.

 

And that's the other thing. Mercedes made it possible to repair it. Boot trim can be removed and replaced multiple times without glue failing, clips snapping, bits never lining up again - so when a part needs servicing, you can just get to it without it being the end of the car's integrity and rattle-free nature. As long as you do it methodically and ideally know where the clips are - goes without saying that someone used to hamfisting their way through a Ford Fiesta can do thousands of pounds worth of damage just yanking bits of trim off :/


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#46 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 04:40 PM

The entire 140 range to my mind was too big and brought out just at precisely the wrong time as well. But the tech they hold is stunning and when I went to look at new ones in the local MB showroom, I loved the double glazing and all the little, subtle tricks and treats they offered. Fantastic cars for sure and one that I feel looks more at home today than it did when new as 'ordinary' cars have got bigger and BIGGER the Mercedes looks more in proportion :)

 

All that investment developing it...

 

And in production for one of the shortest runs of any Mercedes (albeit it lived on as the Maybach).

FWIW it feels a lot like my Chrysler 300C estate felt to drive. Except thirstier and less practical :D


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#47 OFFLINE   billyboy406v6

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:20 PM

N10 relay repair ? This may help ? http://forums.merced...ead.php?t=62702


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#48 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:51 PM

Yes and no - the N10 relay on the W140 is more sophisticated - and I've a suspicion is a component failure rather than a dry joint, but I want to investigate the wiring loom at X27 (join front loom to main body loom) and indeed, the front harness, as this is of the era when Mercedes made biodegrading looms and the outside temperature sensor - that thinks it's anything from 9° to 50° on any given day - is part of that loom, so degrading wires could be shorting out and causing erratic behaviour. The harness is plug & play to replace, but "not cheap".


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#49 OFFLINE   Magnificent Rustbucket

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:21 PM

I suspect that seeing a particular make of car as constructed in layers rather than spaghetti flows as much from great familiarity with them than it does from anything else. I see my Jaguar in exactly the same way - and also find it easy to take apart and put back together again - whereas a BMW we have here seems to be powered by voodoo and random plastic which snaps when you unclip it. But I have owned the Jag a great length of time and have taken it to bits and put it back together again more than once, for various (rust related) reasons.

 

My brother once had a W140 - a blue-black S320, back in the '90s. I could find lots to admire about it, especially the feeling of importance piloting it genuinely imbues - but I found it very large to park! He had the same problem with his sunroof - opening it scratched the paint. I suspect it had the startings of loom degradation too, since it had a lot of electrical problems. He sold it, trading it in for a W220 S500 in the early 2000s. The W220 was a lesser car in my view; for me, the W140 is the last 'proper' S class Mercedes in that it is the last one to feel like a 'car apart'. Others may disagree! :)


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#50 OFFLINE   Sheefag

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:30 PM

N10 relay repair ? This may help ? http://forums.merced...ead.php?t=62702

 

Mercedes used those relays for lots of thing it appears, I fixed the dry joints on a relay board in Mrs S's Crossfire the other weekend after a FTP.

Another FTP followed a few days later and I found that the coil on one of the relays had failed with no indication or smell of heat.

 

2013-07-01_073508_k40relay.jpg


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#51 OFFLINE   xtriple

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:05 PM

There is something truly 'special' about older Mercedes. As Richard says, they are both easy and a joy to work on and the brilliant engineering is evident everywhere. I guess I am fortunate to not have been afflicted with a later one to play with.

 

My beloved Bentley is also beautifully made and engineered, but... as mine is one of the very last cars, a lot changed between first and last, and not for the better: the windows were originally worked by beautiful chains and sprockets and were massively over-engineered, totally rebuildable, silent and tough. Mine has the naff and common cable system with plastic connectors that is fragile and cheap (but not to buy!). There are things hidden away in the boot that are truly shocking to find on a car that cost £140000 when new: bits of old wood used to bridge gaps with relays mounted on it as there is nowhere else to put them! You feel/know that Mercedes would have engineered something a bit more durable/special/precise.


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#52 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:38 PM

I suspect that seeing a particular make of car as constructed in layers rather than spaghetti flows as much from great familiarity with them than it does from anything else. I see my Jaguar in exactly the same way - and also find it easy to take apart and put back together again - whereas a BMW we have here seems to be powered by voodoo and random plastic which snaps when you unclip it.

 

 

No, I think all BMWs are like that. My E39 - great to drive, drove me absolutely insane. I think mid-90s Peugeots are made of better materials.


My brother once had a W140 - a blue-black S320, back in the '90s. I could find lots to admire about it, especially the feeling of importance piloting it genuinely imbues - but I found it very large to park! He had the same problem with his sunroof - opening it scratched the paint. I suspect it had the startings of loom degradation too, since it had a lot of electrical problems. He sold it, trading it in for a W220 S500 in the early 2000s. The W220 was a lesser car in my view; for me, the W140 is the last 'proper' S class Mercedes in that it is the last one to feel like a 'car apart'. Others may disagree!  :)

 

Well, yeah, the SEC is not... handy when it comes to nipping to the shops. I've got a solution for that in hand though :D - and I don't mean "only going to Waitrose before everyone has woken up". It's the doors as much as anything else, the car fits in the space, if you ignore that the boot didn't make it, but the doors are heavy and so far I've accidentally knocked a Kia Rio into an adjoining space by letting one go. It's okay though, the Mercedes didn't get a mark on it.

 

Most W140s seem to be very much a car apart lately. And the owners are wondering how to put them back together,

 

I mean, look. One owner.

 

I cannot quite explain how much i WANT this car, purely so I can preserve it. Like, seriously. I know it's a lowly 280. but ONE OWNER.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

Also my habit of going for Mercedes "sports" models means I miss having a 3-pointed target to aim at other road users.

 


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#53 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:53 PM

Mercedes used those relays for lots of thing it appears, I fixed the dry joints on a relay board in Mrs S's Crossfire the other weekend after a FTP.

Another FTP followed a few days later and I found that the coil on one of the relays had failed with no indication or smell of heat.

 

 

All I've got is fast (bulb failure) flashing on the nearside when hazards are on and engine running, and random flash of offside indicator if lights are on. The former I'd think "bad connection/resistance" except the bulb failure unit remains silent on the matter, and the hazards work fine with ignition off, and the latter, I've no bloody clue, but suspect a diode or capacitor in the relay box is letting electricity go where it shouldn't. The signal when hazards are on function works fine, as do all of the lights and intermittent wipe behaviour.

 

Insinct is telling me corroded connections at X27. But it'll take an hour or so of free time to dig that out.

 

(Of course I don't have factory security to contend with).


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#54 OFFLINE   drum

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:02 AM

Top fettling. Always good to sort as much as possible during the honeymoon period of new car ownership.
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#55 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 11:30 AM

If you liked it then...

 

IMG_1566.JPG

 

Undo boot trim, undo one screw. move pneumatic motor, remove other half of broken gasket, pop new one in and...

 

IMG_1569.JPG

 

Plus bonus extending-wiper-bit-cover action.

 

IMG_1567.JPG

 

IMG_1568.JPG

 

I need to take a picture of part of the scuttle panel. There are not-flush bits at the bottom of the windscreen, the purpose of which appears to be ducting to blow warm air onto the wipers.


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#56 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 02:23 PM

Not much to report, as mid week ends up being manic work period...

 

But looking for a template to fit this.

 

IMG_1605.JPG

 

And there's a visitor taking my OCD attention away. Those of a weak disposition, look away now...


  • Magnificent Rustbucket and Lacquer Peel like this

-- 

Current fleet:

1998 SLK 230K, 2000 SLK 320, Twingo 1 Phase 2Fiat Fullback 180

Outgoing:  Stress. Incoming: Nowt.

Non-owned residents: Saab 9-3 Auto SE. Visitors: Rover 60, CX20 Pallas, 200TE, Volvo 740

Currently in favour: My friends. Currently out of favour: World Politics.


#57 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 02:47 PM

IMG_1634.JPG

 

Another badge

 

And another patient...

 

Open wide!

 

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I have a confession. I think this is possibly the most beautiful car in the world.

 

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Even if it's suffered a little.

 

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But, I have a mission. To solve issues!

 

Central locking... let's begin with the basics.

 

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How's that fusebox?

 

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"Standard".

 

Let's check out the rest...

 

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Not looking too bad, things are where they need to be :)

 

Now, what else...

 

IMG_1623.JPG

 

Still has the alarm then. And yes, it works, and works the central locking. Which is interesting, because the central locking doesn't. I think I know why, though...

 

On the drive back, I had one speaker. This is not optimal.

 

IMG_1615.JPG

 

I'm fairly sure people in Mongolia heard the swearing. In common with most Mercedes of the era, this has two channels and a fader for for speakers. The wiring is not obviously logical, but it's not THAT impossible to sort out.

 

And speakers...

 

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Nice! My old 200T didn't have rear speakers, I installed some big round ones in the tailgate. I was young and reckless then.

 

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Ah, missing a cover though. The other side is missing an ashtray, so it balances out.

 

Whilst being curious about things, why do I have no overhead light on the front doors? The lights on buzzer works. The circuit is intact...

 

IMG_1618.JPG

 

There's a clue right there. Rust staining inside the lens...

 

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And a '90s phone antenna base...

 

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Actually a whole '90s phone antenna, since I found the pointy end wedged loosely in the base of the windscreen/scuttle panel near the battery.

 

First though - to cure a car which has plenty of power and sounds healthy, but is breathing heavily!

 

IMG_1624.JPG

Attached Images

  • IMG_1616.JPG

  • loserone, Sheefag, Magnificent Rustbucket and 2 others like this

-- 

Current fleet:

1998 SLK 230K, 2000 SLK 320, Twingo 1 Phase 2Fiat Fullback 180

Outgoing:  Stress. Incoming: Nowt.

Non-owned residents: Saab 9-3 Auto SE. Visitors: Rover 60, CX20 Pallas, 200TE, Volvo 740

Currently in favour: My friends. Currently out of favour: World Politics.


#58 ONLINE   Six-cylinder

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:22 PM

I have a tailgate panel I got from a member here, I wonder where it is.

Mrs Cyl says she took the phone aerial mast off 2 years ago when she had her canoe on the roof and put it in the glove box. I check the glovebox for holes!

At home and running:
2001 Alfa 156 V6 Sportswagon, 2000 Citroen C15, 1996 Citroen ZX TD Estate, 1976 Daimler Sovereign S2.


#59 OFFLINE   richardmorris

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:40 PM

As a workhorse it's probably unkillable. There are still a few in regular use here in Surrey.
  • Mercedes E320 coupé
  • Fiat X1/9
  • Citroën 2CV6

#60 ONLINE   RichardK

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:51 PM

I have a tailgate panel I got from a member here, I wonder where it is.

Mrs Cyl says she took the phone aerial mast off 2 years ago when she had her canoe on the roof and put it in the glove box. I check the glovebox for holes!

 

 

Hahah, okay, that's VERY weird.


-- 

Current fleet:

1998 SLK 230K, 2000 SLK 320, Twingo 1 Phase 2Fiat Fullback 180

Outgoing:  Stress. Incoming: Nowt.

Non-owned residents: Saab 9-3 Auto SE. Visitors: Rover 60, CX20 Pallas, 200TE, Volvo 740

Currently in favour: My friends. Currently out of favour: World Politics.






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