Yugoslavian Ami.., continuing on from 'now-autoshites-flimsy-bodied Shitroen'

[Bfg]

.

One month later..  and time to do a little catching up..

 

With tennis-elbow stopping play last month ..I redirected my attention to restoring my Sunbeam S7 motorcycle.  But over the past weeks I learnt that hydrochloric-acid cleaning of rust off a panel needs to be done and then painted - in a single schedule of work.

 

The lesson I learnt here was ; to do the rust treatment / cleaning surface rust off the panel on one dry day, immediately dry it with clean cloth, and then store those panels in a warm dry place (in my lounge) overnight (to dry out any damp in the panel's seams). And the following day, after the sun has warmed the morning air - get on and paint those panels. Otherwise they will rust again (..even in the garage during a spell of dry weather) ..and you have to do it all again !

 

I had understood that Jenolite (which uses hydrochloric-acid as its main ingredient) was supposed to make the metal inert so as to not rust easily again. Apparently raw hydrochloric-acid doesn't do that.   Anyways up..

 

Having likewise weld-repaired and rebuilt the front RH side inner wing's edge flange, and encasing that in fibreglass, I've now cleaned off their surface rust and painted them inside and out with epoxy primer.  And then yesterday with 2-pack polyurethane paint by Hempel.  This is the paint I used when hand-repainting the deck of my fibreglass boat, and I'm happy with how it works (painting with it), how it looks when dry, and its durability.

 

^ epoxy primer undercoat going on. I've decided that I cannot afford the time to get a smooth finish on the inside panels and so I'm going to try and leave a deliberate mottle finish on them ..with a 2" fine hair roller (in corners I use a brush to scrub the paint in).

 

 

Extra work was required on the front wings and the headlamp/grille panel ...

^ the outer front RH side wing had clearly been the subject of a fender bender. Most of the dent had been beaten out and then filled over.  Still for a 40+ year old car's front wing it really is in solid condition.  And in fact someone had done a pretty good job of reshaping the panel .. very much better than a block of wood or chicken wire with bondo over it.

 

^ filled over and painted.

 

^ in the process of the paint being chemically stripped, and of course also the filler.

 

^ sodding filler took three applications of paint stripper even after the paint was off.   It had to come off though, as I wanted to try and get a better shape.. And you can't (successfully) panel-beat a panel which has bondo in it.

 

^ finally !  Here I'm already starting to reduce the high lumps, with hammer and dolly. It'll take a time but it's the best I know how to do.

 

. 

^ It doesn't look that different I know (..not least because I've deliberately taken the photo to show its surface !) but I've reduced the dents from 1/4" or more to less than half that.

 

One-quarter of an inch doesn't seem very much anyway ..and had that been 1/4" of very gradual dip over a six foot panel then it would barely have been seen, but a localised 1/4" deep dent over just six inches of panel (or between hammered out places) is really very noticeable.  With a little extra time & trouble that can been usually be chased / dressed out with hammer n' dolly to 1/16" or less ..and then such a shallow skim of body-filler will flex with the steel panel ..and not flake off nearly so easily.   However with panel-beating you have to be wary - not to excessively beat the metal ..as that will stretch the surface. And then you end up with a bulge. 

 

So the trick is to use a dolly on the other side to where you are lightly tapping the high points of the lumps down.  The dolly is not flat though. It is shaped with a gently round upper surface which with careful positioning & rotating can be made to sit down flat into the inside of a curved (compound shaped) panel. The idea being to bridge the nominal level surface with the dolly and then to tap (from the other side) the panel's lump down to that surface.  The flat side of the dolly is used on the outside of the panel when tapping the dents out from the inside (which on the inside appear as lumps). 

 

^  Dollies come in different shapes and sizes and are shaped according to use. This one has relatively flattish curved surface for laying to the inside of flatter compound car panels. Some are very much more rounded to fit into the top corners (for example) of a car's wing, whereas others are shaped to fit well around a wheel arch.  But this one is a generally all round useful one ..with both hard and soft edges used as appropriate to support into tight corners (such as a relief line along a panel). 

 

NB. I use the terms 'laying to',  'fit into' and 'supporting' ..which I hope helps you realise how they work.. ie. by laying flat to the nominal level inside even a compound surface, so the high points can be tapped down from the other side to that level. 

 

I can't remember when I bought these tools ..sometime in the early-1980's I'd guess*, but even though they are a little scarred now, they have served me well over the years.  I'm sure good old dollies can be bought at an autojumble nowadays.  But.. avoid buying a dolly which does not have compound curves. Some I have seen from China appear to have a round surface along a single plane rather than compound curves, whereas many are just too rounded to lay flat / fit well inside the gentle curves of a car panel ..perhaps they are intended for the tighter inside radii of motorcycle mudguards ?

 

p.s.  * Ah ha.. I recall in '79 or perhaps early 1980.. I was working for Tony Stevens in Warwick and one evening went to an open air concert (with parking on the grass in the park) I was driving my Vauxhall Victor FB and in the darkness thereafter drove off with its crooklock still on, around the brake pedal !   We drove a gently arc until I bumped into the back quarter of a mini ..at tick over speed, which just pushed along until our engine stalled. (NB. I obviously didn't have the quickness of mind to have just turned the ignition off !).   Anyway, the rear light panel of the mini crumpled in (no damage to the Vauxhall) ..and rather than drive off  I waited for the owner to return.  I agreed to personally repair his car, in lieu of adding to my youthful insurance premium.  So, I bought these tools (new !) to repair that (..in the owner's front garden).  He was so pleased.. that he asked if I would do other repairs on the car.  I politely declined as it wasn't how I wanted to spend my weekends.

 

You'll also note that despite the age of these tools - their faces are still kept reasonably blemish free and clean. And that's because any blemish tends to get 'stamped' into the metal's surface (especially if working with soft metals like aluminium, copper or brass).  The old ball hammer was my fathers. I have no idea how old that might be, but just occasionally I use it in my panel beating, again just where it fits tightly.. 

 

So again : Work in turn from one side of the panel and then the other - always tapping the high lumps (which are dents when seen from the other side of the panel) down to the nominal / mid level.  

 

Hope this has been a useful quick guide to 'chasing' dents out of metal 

 

^ no filler, just a coat of epoxy primer.

 

^ coarse rub down with 240 grit.

 

Next.. required a bit of work with the welder, as the return flanges of this front wing were cracked in two places and buckled in others (so back to hammer and dolly).  Likewise the car's front (grille) panel.

 

^ work in progress

 

^ This was dented / buckled straight in perhaps 1/2" but very locally. The grille was undamaged so either it's been replaced or we were lucky.  Above I've straightening it perhaps half way.. another 1/4" to go I'd guess.

 

There were so many dents, cracks, bend and otherwise buckled edges, that I can't show even a small percentage of them, but each have / are being addressed with welded repair and hammer n' dolly as required..   Until . . .

 

^ shaped without any filler (..yet)

 

 

And of course, the insides of both front wings and the inner panels have now been painted in the 2-pack polyurethane . . .

 

So not a great deal of progress for a whole month, but then as I say I have been doing other things too. 

 

Hope that is of interest,

 

Bfg.

14,836 views

[500tops]

Great to see further (quality) progress. I love this thread!

[Bfg]

.

^  Big Thanks

 

And now you might well ask.. What the xxx* is he up to now ?   

 

^ with even the sound deadening removed ?

 

..the answer lies somewhere here . . .

^ Never seen such a rats nest of cables in my life. And this is much tidier than when I bought the car. 

 

If you've ever had reason to grumble about Lucas electrics, then I'd strongly recommend you never get this close to Citroen's wiring.  Logic can only be presumed to be found near the bottom of a carafe of deep red wine, as it really begs belief that a Frenchman rather than demented squirrel actually designed this loom. 

 

There are just so many examples of going back and forth that one couldn't possibly list them all ..but just for example : The brake light switch wires come into the engine bay through the bulkhead in the main bundle, immediately branches off, and then go back through the bulkhead via another hole ..to get back to the pedal box inside the car.   And the earthing wire from the heater blower is almost 2ft long, because it goes around the houses to the battery lead terminal ..rather than earthing to the bolt holding the blower on - just 2" away !  

 

Just for fun it seems.. other wires suddenly change within the loom. They do this via crimped connectors ..where either three or four cables of different sizes and colour are crimped together with a piece of insulating tape around them, before being hidden away inside the bundle of loosely wrapped loom. 

 

I guess one cannot fault it too much because it has lasted well., and aside from being a bear to work on, Citroen wiring doesn't have anything near as bad a rap as Lucas.

 

 

..And this little diversion into wiring started out - why ? ...simply because I wanting to paint the bulkhead.

..just a couple of (dozen) little things need moving, but then decided to alter the location of these . . .

^ the two fuse boxes are 'normally' situated under / behind the spare wheel, which rests on that bulkhead bracket, on the bracket inboard of the master cylinder, and otherwise on the inner wheel arch.

 

There are already plenty of holes through the bulkhead  (most of which I hope to blank off), but I needed to drill two large holes through the side of the steering column brace.  See arrows below

^ yes, it was a sod to get in there ..in the back corner of a small parcel shelf, behind a bracket.

 

And this is where I'm at .. at close of play today. . .

^  So far none of the wires needed extending, and the fuse boxes with their loops of cable are no longer on the engine side of the bulkhead. Instead they are being tucked (will be neatly) into the back of the small parcel shelf (with easy access through the open driver's door).  The second fuse box is going in besides this one. 

 

We'll see how well it works out tomorrow

I just love it..

Bfg.

[spartacus]

I'm liking the thread too Bfg, loads of detailed preventative work going on.

I've got a load of really good exercises and tips for tennis elbow, although you may know them already, drop me a pm if not and I'll send them over.

[RayMK]

A Frenchman's logic is often charming, usually unorthodox, and amazingly when applied to engineering design somehow gives a reliable product.  This statement is of course based on a small sample*. I have owned a 2cv6, Dyane, GSA, CX GTi Turbo 2, Renaults 12 and 20, Peugeot Moped and a Peugeot 205 Automatic. All were tolerably reliable (205 still is) and a joy to drive, partly because they felt different and ...errr.. French.  None suffered electrical problems.  

 

Nevertheless, shifting those fuse boxes inside is a sensible mod.  

 

* I have not owned a Goona. Despite some determined individuals on here who have managed to keep them mobile, I suspect that, if I bought one, my view of French logic would be suitably scathing.

[Bfg]

.

^ Thanks, ..can't deny most of what you say. 'Charming ' might be stretching the point though

..when you face an unfathomable issue !? 

 

 

Hallelujah.. I mighta just seen the coloured light !  

 

..peeking again at one of the pictures above (the one showing the open fuse boxes on the engine bay side of the bulkhead) with its just light-grey (perhaps once white ?), green, and yellow wires ..And then from the stirring of my grey matter "wires suddenly change within the loom. They do this via crimped connectors ..where either three or four cables of different sizes and colour are crimped together with a piece of insulating tape around them, before being hidden away inside the bundle of loosely wrapped loom" 

 

"..different sizes and colour".   Yes.. yellow wires are thicker than the grey, and green wires are of a smaller size.  Perhaps in French - the wire's colour simply represent its electrical load capacity. 

 

I had noted that there's also a heavier blue wire to and from the alternator. But I'll have to check to see what the brown, black and very-light-grey (as opposed to white) wires are.?      

 

Amazing.. and perhaps a little worrying, to think that I might begin to understand French logic  

 

Bfg

[dollywobbler]

Ah yes. The colour-changing wiring really does make life interesting. I'm so glad the 2CV has so little wiring...

[forddeliveryboy]

A Frenchman's logic is often charming, usually unorthodox, and amazingly when applied to engineering design somehow gives a reliable product. This statement is of course based on a small sample.

I too scratched my head in disbelief when first encountering old Citroen wiring, it does have a logic all of its own which leaves Brits a bit flustered, but in my experience it's reliable and tough, much better than that on German or Italian cars of the same age. It's the colour-coded sleeves which distinguish the wires, not the insulation colour.

 

Two exceptions - the positioning of relays on CXs which are vulnerable to salt spray (but easily accessed to be treated with protection), and the addition of dim-dip to the 2cv's ancient switches and wiring which showed traditional French contempt for The English, but which can be easily dispensed with.

 

Keep up the good work, BfG, I look forward to the MoT pass and first hoon!

[Bfg]

Hey FDB where have you been ? ..not seen you around these parts lately.. hope you've been well.. 

 

I'm glad you are back.

 

Bfg

 

.

..little over a month after getting the car here .. then a really busy morning doing last minute jobs, before a 35 mile round trip to the garage.

MOT : Pass  (albeit with advisory for worn a tyre) and a verbal warning that I should have a rubber on the throttle pedal 

 

The car clearly needs a lot of tweaking to carburation, gearbox, clutch, handbrake, lights, steering, suspension, seats & seat belts, et cetera, et cetera...but she made it there and back without incident.  (sort of just )

 

..next task will be to apply for UK registration. I hate filling in forms - but at least I have the pleasure in knowing that I'll have no road-fund-license to pay. 

 

Sorry no garage photo, as I rushed out without taking the camera. but fwtw here's a couple from when I got back.

 

P1230507a.JPG

 

P1230504.JPG

 

Now I'm going to take the rest of the day off  

Bfg.

12,322 views

 

379 replies

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[forddeliveryboy]

Hey FDB where have you been ? ..not seen you around these parts lately.. hope you've been well..

 

I'm glad you are back.

 

Bfg

 

 

 

379 replies

Landmark : 15,057 views

Pete, bin around all the while, and since I'd liked the post mentioning the test pass I've obviously since forgotten she'd got through! So obviously the brain's fading but the rest is good, thanks.

 

What's the score with that steering pinion? Tyre choice? I must've missed a few posts in this long-running thread, mefinks. Seem to remember not wanting to get involved with whether or not to balance wheels at some point...

 

Are you painting her yourself, perhaps? One of the best paint jobs I've seen on an obscure old Cit was on a GS which had been amateur-sprayed on someone's drive - think that was someone in the Home Counties.

[Bfg]

.

hey good buddy - you're incognito with a new avatar (most likely since 2016 ?)

 

Likewise this ol giffer's brain is not as sharp ..as it would be if I had a much needed six weeks of all expenses paid holiday.. but dream-on Pete.. life is as it is !

 

Money's been / is tight since I got back from Slovene and got a bollocks-kicking bill for crummy workmanship on my Sunbeam's engine.  Add to that the cost of transport and cross ferry shipping (sensible but still costly) to get the car back here before Christmas (..as it was otherwise standing outside, and the insurance was going to be cancelled). And so I'm living with the steering pinion for the time being (with my priority moving to preventing the car from dissolving in winter / spring-time humidity).

 

Hopefully another pinion will crop up at sometime, but £100 a pop to try and find a good used one isn't a possibility.  Likewise for lack of budget reasons I've not yet bought tyres  ..and am faced with painting the car myself. .  Obviously the time scale on this car has gone out of the window, but at least by the time it's done - someone will be glad to inherit it 

 

Dollywobbler says no need to balance these wheels, and surely he's done enough miles (tyre changes) to know.   Isn't logical to me but I'm glad to try it without and learn, and only resort to balancing if required on this particular car.

 

 

Today I tackled a bit more wiring, not important stuff, just a little more re-routing.

I also dislike wires of the wrong length and twisted jumbles . . .

^ I did a little tidying earlier in the year when I had the dashboard out,  but that was just to make things secure (neither pinched nor chafing).

 

So this time I've been running through 'ordering things', in anticipation of reassembly. . .

^ some would say ship-shape, others (most !) would say this sort of thing is pretty anal, but either way I'm checking its condition, and then it also helps me achieve something that I can make sense of  ..and therefore am able to live with should I be faced with an electrical fault. 

 

Then I moved on to the bulkhead. This is 'as was' (below)...

 

with details like..

^ a man may spray rubberised paint over crud, but at the end of the day.. it's still crud and it'll rot out of sight.  (btw ..it's a recess in the bulkhead for the bonnet hinge). The flat panel to the left of the picture is a divider between this hinge recess and the fresh-air intake plenum (with its open grille facing upwards). The bottom of this panel is not sealed, and so any moisture in the plenum could seep / sit under this.

 

and..

^ Janez might have been kind enough to fit a shiny new nut & bolt  ..but I do wish he'd repaired the cracked bulkhead while he had easy access and his welder in hand.  This bolt holds the floor gear-change box in place.. Strange how that is fitted three quarters the way over the large hole ..without even a blanking grommet in it.

 

Anyway I duly pulled it apart and welded the crack up (with a thick penny-washer behind it). And then decided to turn the battery through 90 degrees ..so it didn't protrude so much / restrict access over the brakes (cutting 2" (55mm) off  its support bracket). This also rotated the battery terminals to a more friendly orientation for its leads. 

 

I then set about cleaning up the bulkhead and, eventually this evening, repainting it with the two-pack (top half only so far) . . .

 

 

 

Bfg

[Bfg]

.

...Not very interesting work today, in fact a bit of a rotten job - which was to clean out, check and paint the scuttle vent plenum.  It looked like this . . .

^ I thought that's in pretty good shape considering.. A couple of pin holes through the bottom but just a couple.  In typical Shitroen fashion any drips from those would go inside the car    

 

However, I was particularly interested in the bits I couldn't see.. ie. up in the ends where the end plate divides this plenum off from the recessed bonnet hinge pockets.  So I removed the vent elbows (which are normally hidden under the dashboard).  Again not too bad at all., just full of crud which would hold moisture...

 

  and . .

 

So I cleaned them up, with wood-chisel, wire brush, and ss wire wool (held in a pair of plumber's slip-grips because I couldn't get may hands up in the ends). . .

^ Thankfully both sides were still intact   ..but as I mentioned before - the original sealing mastic around it had dried up, cracked and now did nothing useful at all. Likewise much of the mastic along this panel's bottom seam, which is even more vulnerable to rotting through.

 

Anyway, I repainted the plenum with epoxy primer ..which I applied thick enough to seal the pin holes through the bottom.  Good stuff this epoxy but I really don't get on with its vapours, esp. when painting from inside the car. .

  and. .

 

 

Thereafter, I switched to the 2-pack and finished a bit missed on the inner wings (deliberately missed I might add ..as it was the face I rested the panel on while painting the rest of it ), and then did the Aussie bit of bulkhead (down under) . . 

 

That's it for this week. Have a pleasant day off tomorrow.

 

Bfg

15,180 views

[RayMK]

"Not very interesting work today...."

 

I find that cleaning the grotty bits for inspection, then painting with something that will resist corrosion for years, is quite satisfying.  The interesting bits usually turn out to be more expensive to restore to satisfactory working condition.

 

It's coming on very nicely.

[stuboy]

coming on nicely

[Bfg]

.

Yesterday evening, I sat myself down and gave myself a talking to.. 

 

^ Citroen GS instruments  .. um ?

 

.. to the effect of   "if you ever want to get anything finished Bfg, (car, bike, boat, etc.,) then you've really got stop modifying everything ! ..just put it back together and then..  if and when you have the time (and energy)  .. then you can come back to such Tomfoolery"

 

"Yes Bfg  ..if you say so Bfg"  

 

"..if you don't - you'll end up going crazy ! " 

 

"you mean like talking to yourself Crazie ?"

 

              . .  " Well, OK then  "

 

So today I'm resolved to get it put back together again ..pretty much as is.  Before I reassembled the dashboard & electrics though - I wanted to 2-pack the inside of the scuttle vent plenum, as just the thought of  English winter weather tends to dissolve A-series Shitreons . . . 

^ how to paint where you cannot even see. Here I've painted what I can see with my usual 1" brush (no roller today) but this heat-bent toothbrush is to reach around where a straight paintbrush just doesn't want to go.

 

I then set about sorting fastenings and repainting various brackets n' things, and at the same time filling unwanted screw holes through the bulkhead.  I knew for example that the fastening holes for the two fuse boxes weren't going to be used again, and likewise those for the regulator (which I'm also bringing inside).   And then there were a couple which I didn't know what they were for, but they weren't original.  

 

And after lunch I set to applying anti-drum sheet ..predominantly inside the scuttle vent plenum as that is both directly piped to the engine ducts and of course is also in direct line between the engine and the car's occupants.

 

^ being applied inside / behind the LH side face vent.   The round hole seen inside the vent to the right is an access hole from the engine bay ..to be able to get a 1/4" drive socket to the back of the vent's elbow fastening.  So here I've stuck the anti-drum almost to the hole ..before fitting the elbow ..and reaching in through the scuttle top vent, to finish sticking the anti-drum down - which covers the two access holes (their blind grommets were missing anyway).

 

 

I'm actually using 'pseudo lead' bitumastic household flashing here. I bought two rolls x150mm wide off ebay ..at a quarter of the price of car branded anti-drumming.  It sticks very well onto the fresh two pack paint.  NB. I was keeping it warm  (in 'the other car' which is parked in the sun) before measuring & cutting individual pieces off. 

 

I've applied it to the underside of the scuttle panel too, as that was a bit tinny to tap.  Had to stop though because the evening air turned very cool tonight ..and I thought that's no good for sticking this stuff in place. This is as far as I got..

 

Slowly but surely..

 

Bfg

15,264 views

[stuboy]

keep up the great work

[Bfg]

.

^ Thanks .. I'm trying

 

Though I really didn't feel like doing much today, I did drag myself out to check the handbrake adjustment and the pads. The Ami Super uses the Citroen GS 1220 inboard brakes, which are mounted onto the GS 1015 gearbox with short (specific to the Ami Super) bell housing.  Accordingly the brakes on this lighter-weight car should be good. 

 

These handbrakes act on the main brake's discs, and are fitted behind the main calipers ..But as the hydraulic brakes are a single circuit system - this bowden-cable operated handbrake is the back-up should they fail.     

 

I've never worked on these cars brakes before ..as I'd asked Janez to change the calipers & their brake-pads for new ones I'd bought ..and at the same time to replace all the brake pipes, while he had the engine out for body work and chassis restoration.

 

I'd guessed the old handbrake pads were not worn out on a 43,000 km car, so he reused these ..reporting back that they were still well within wear tolerance. However, the MOT tester picked up on the handbrake being at the end of its adjustment ..so I sought to investigate, and to see how many miles of life they might still have left in them ..and at the same time learn how to do the job ..while access was still half decent with the front wings off the car, the heater box being out, and the rat's nest of cables not being everywhere.

 

So with the camera in hand I stepped over the abyss..

 

 

Doing this when everything under here is black with gritty dirty oily shit everywhere (ie. like it was when I bought this car) - would not be a job to look forward to ..not least because access is so bad as might reasonably regarded as bloody stupid.  In fact despite the clear access - you still cannot see the handbrake pads, nor two of the four cam adjusters. 

 

I fiddled n' farted around, including checking the three workshop manuals I have - one of which told me to undo the caliper to get them out (the calipers are made in two halves and their mounting bolts also hold the two parts together, and therefore are crucial to the seal from one side to the other !)

 

I got the first (easiest access) one out, and that taught me how it went together ..and therefore how to remove the two hidden-from-view brake pads. Reassembly as they say is the reverse procedure (..blind).

 

^  A photo taken where the camera fitted but my head wouldn't !  Red arrow shows the cam adjuster. This one was the easiest of the four to get to (with heater box and it's bracket removed, otherwise down below the battery).

 

New handbrake pads are said to have 3.65mm of wearing material before it gets down to steel. The worst of those fitted was worn by 1.25mm and another was hardly worn at all.  So one-third worn, and will probably need changing in another 40k miles.  In doing the task,  I noted Janez had used plain washers under the lock bolts, which aren't illustrated in the manuals, so during reassembly I omitted those.  Conversely, these brakes and their operating arms had been assembled dry of any grease, so I added that. 

 

^ Another photo taken where camera fitted but my head (even if not attached) wouldn't !  But It does clearly show how it goes together.  NB. the 14 is the bolt head size.  Getting the clip off and understanding how it was then meant to re-fit was something the workshop manuals ..didn't help with.

 

The cam adjuster has a 24mm hex head on it. Problem on the LH side is that it's so close to the gearbox that you can't get a 24mm spanner on it, less even to turn and adjust it. A socket is no use because you need to hold the adjuster at the same time as doing its locking through-bolt up.  Perhaps there is a special tool akin to a cranked ring spanner to do the job more easily. ?

 

Adjustment is via a cam at the bottom. Turn that until there is 0.004" clearance between the pad and the disc ..hold that and tighten the lock bolt.  Then adjust the operating cable at the top of the lever arms (held apart by the spring) with a pinch of seasoning to taste.

 

^  This is the view down between the master cylinder and the spare-wheel support bracket (which is not removable). The red arrow shows the feeler gauge. The cam adjuster and its locking bolt are down under somewhere.  Imagine what you can see when you have a hand and tools in there too !

 

^  This is the view from the other side of the spare wheel support bracket. It's a better aspect but that blurry grey oval at the top of the photo is the gear change gaiter .. on the car's centreline. Again the red arrow shows the feeler gauge.

 

Now why didn't the designer put the handbrake in front of the caliper, where you could see what's what ?     

 

Anyway.. I got that done and adjusted the cable to now pull the brakes on hard with three clicks on the handbrake ratchet.  Took me the best part of two hours (this was my first time, but it was also a sod!)  ..but Job done.

 

 

Thereafter I finished off the sound deadening / anti drum sheeting in the scuttle vent, and some more on the inside of the bulkhead, lower down below the vent plenum.  So again not exciting reading, but necessary never-the-less. And however modest I did achieve something today.

 

Bfg  

[Louise2cv]

There is a special tool. It's been a long long time since I did it but I think the 2cv is a 24 eccentric adjuster too so check out Ecas or 2cv city etc for the tool. My dad made one for me iirc.

 

E.T.A. http://www.ecas2cvparts.co.uk/handbrake-eccentric-adjuster-tool-stock-notes-p-143.html

[Louise2cv]

I used to faff around for ages doing the 2cv handbrake but once you get the knack it's ok. I think putting a 2p behind the pads was another trick!

[dollywobbler]

Yup, the special tool makes life a lot easier, even on a 2CV, which has far better access than that! Had to nip mine up on Sunday. Should be fine for a while. By which I mean a couple of weeks...

[Bfg]

.

does the cam need adjusting every few weeks ..or even months (with a feeler gauge) or just the bowden cable ?

[dollywobbler]

.

does the cam need adjusting every few weeks ..or even months (with a feeler gauge) or just the bowden cable ?

 

As far as I know, the cables should rarely need adjusting, with the cams needing a tweak a couple of times a year (or just before the MOT perhaps!).

[RayMK]

Many cars have access problems which suggest to me that the design departments for bodywork, engine, suspension and brakes were entirely separate and forbidden to talk to each other.   Citroen appears to have taken this bloody irritating philosophy a stage further by making everything as unconventional as possible.  It is all wonderful while it keeps working.  I remember when I came  to service my CX Gti Turbo 2 for the first time that I could not spot the oil filter.   Eventually, after 5 minutes of searching whilst lying under the car with a torch, I found it.  I never did discover how one was supposed to get tools to it and replace it - I took the car to the dealer instead.

 

Anyway, well done, and another job ticked off.

[Bfg]

There is a special tool. It's been a long long time since I did it but I think the 2cv is a 24 eccentric adjuster too so check out Ecas or 2cv city etc for the tool. My dad made one for me iirc.

 

E.T.A. http://www.ecas2cvparts.co.uk/handbrake-eccentric-adjuster-tool-stock-notes-p-143.html

 

Thanks, that looks like it would be a great help and for 12.50 plus postage it would certainly be worth having in the car's toolkit.   

[forddeliveryboy]

I think kingpins and handbrakes were designed to keep dealers busy, back in the day. The 2cv was so tough and long-lasting the company probably thought long and hard how to do the equivalent of the Peugeot back axle, but without making a car dangerous to drive. They even marked parts with special paint, to try and combat worn out parts from someone's previous car being swapped to their new one, ready for free replacement.

 

Thrifty French farmers, who having found out how much disc replacement was when their cheap* mechanic got it wrong, soon realised it made sense to have someone who could do the job right first time while ordinary users were simply reminded that their car needed a service once the handbrake ran out of travel. If they're done right, you remember not to leave the handbrake on, don't drive like a maniac and the discs aren't worn out, they can last for a couple of years before 5 minutes adjustment is needed. But a year/10k miles is more realistic, in the real world.

 

Kingpins were the killer 'cheaper to buy a new car, Madame' when after six or seven years they were a little worn' (dealer prices to change them was outrageous, even in France). Something like a quarter of the price of a new car, ffs.

 

Those handbrake pads are very soft and wear out fast if done wrong, yet hard enough to score a disc if they bind in the slightest. After two or three times adjusting, it gets easier. I remember once being asked to look at the points on a Fiesta, total nightmare even to get the dizzy cap off - horses for courses!

[Bfg]

.

Many cars have access problems which suggest to me that the design departments for bodywork, engine, suspension and brakes were entirely separate and forbidden to talk to each other.   Citroen appears to have taken this bloody irritating philosophy a stage further by making everything as unconventional as possible.  It is all wonderful while it keeps working.  I remember when I came  to service my CX Gti Turbo 2 for the first time that I could not spot the oil filter.   Eventually, after 5 minutes of searching whilst lying under the car with a torch, I found it.  I never did discover how one was supposed to get tools to it and replace it - I took the car to the dealer instead.

 

Anyway, well done, and another job ticked off.

 

Most car designs are both a parts bin and a compromise to styling, legislation, and costs.  More so when the product is relatively cheap, the company is struggling, &/or the volumes of production are low (or uncertain).

 

The car designs I've been personally involved in have each taken their mechanical train and substantial parts of the chassis from an already established source and then re-clothed them - either for an alternative use, or as an update.  That happened from the very earliest days in the motor industry ..when engines were manufactured by one company, various elements of their drive train by other companies, and the body work added by coach-builders, before going off to the trimmers. 

 

Nowadays..,  both individual parts and complete assemblies are similarly brought in from one manufacturer to be used by another.   ".. the design departments for bodywork, engine, suspension and brakes were entirely separate and forbidden to talk to each other."  Nope they simply have never met, nor will they. They probably work for different companies and speak a different language ..of their own continent !

 

In-house designs are no better.. In fact it's almost unheard of to have an engine / mechanical train designed together with the body. The resources within any company generally don't manage to get the new bodywork geared up for production in the same month (or year) as the engine is ready to go.  And then components for each have come from the 'parts bin' because it's rarely cost effective to tool up everything anew.

 

Of course computer aided design (like Catia) should help with design unity, but.. from what I've experienced - the CAD technician takes computer modeled parts and assembles them (..without either hand or tool in the way) in their colourful but sterile clean, nine decimal point accurate cyberspace ..which can be flown through like a demented helicopter pilot through high-rise city-scape bellowing at the top of his voice as if in 'Nam   (..all done by someone who has never used a torque-wrench in his or her youthful life).

 

Add to these factors of the car's style &/or crash protection and things get even more out of hand.  Possibly one of the most accessible car's engine bay ever was the Triumph Spitfire with its fully opening bonnet.  This of course was derived from the Herald ..which later developed into the six cylinder GT6 and Vitesse respectively. Inbetween times there had already been a number of engine size changes, gearbox options, and ancillary upgrades. 

 

In my view it was a brilliant style ..but I wonder how these cars would cope in a contemporary crash test ?  And if still OK., then is the separate chassis (..or sub-frame in the case of the E-type Jag) an economical way to build a car.?  Bolt on panels are a blessing when major work is necessary, but it is really far cheaper and more accurate to spot weld them together. And they then become part of the vehicle's structure.

 

Of course pretty much everything built into a car also has to have 'approval',  from most humble fastening (being strong enough that bits don't fall off) to the air vent on the dashboard not finding your passenger's face in the event of a crash. The cost of retooling any part, and then retesting 'for approval' (across different international markets) is bad enough, but then the testing authorities need that part to be tested 'in place' with its overall design too - then things get really expensive.  So, for example a seat may be used in one model of car, but it's mountings are questioned when placed inside another (even similar) vehicle.  Likewise something like a rear lamp lens may be fine on one car but its angle of visibility needs to be checked for the new car.

 

As a consequence when I was in car design we had to (by force of economy) use already approved parts ..and in such a fashion as to not alter their geometry or loading at all.  An example of this was the chassis ..it retained exactly the same engine mounts, and front & rear suspension mounting structure, along with the steering & brakes, fuel tank mountings, etc - to avoid the excruciating cost of testing ..to destruction. We did alter sections of the chassis though, and that needed new 'type approval'.  But we avoided 90% of those costs and the inevitable delay into production. Things like the electrics though still had to be tested with the finished car.. for radio interference, because their position in and the type of body shell was different. Once the design & specification had been approved we could not change it (in any significant way).

 

No, we will rarely see a 'unified' car design.  Perhaps just one or two as the industry moves across to electric, but still.. things like the suspension, steering and brakes are likely to be adapted from what already exists. 

 

Bfg  

 

p.s.  motorcycles when designed around a new motor are somewhat different, but even then the criteria of one department (engine design versus chassis design for example) are often conflicting..  "Where else can the damn thing go !?" says the engine designer who needs to keep it oil tight, compact, lightweight, and affordable to produce ..and so the chassis designer has to accommodate it.  Some time thereafter a chap is called in to do the wiring ! "Oi., you can't drill a hole through there mate !" 

15,431 views

[forddeliveryboy]

You've got me wondering just what bits of which cars you're responsible for, Pete...

[3VOM]

There was a video I think someone put on here but I'm not sure, in which it was being discussed that BMW? had built a plant to make carbon fibre bodywork for only $100m-120m. The going rate for a car manufacturing plant being $450m. I have an internet mate who has something to do with a gearbox plant which cost $900m. The point being that with those costs you can't make a body, engine, gearbox etc. all on your own because the cost would be prohibitive.

[Bfg]

.

^  Does make me wonder where so many millions go.?  Certainly even when working with GKN ..as a contractor (suspension appraisal & design) and was earning mega money (well it seemed like that at the time !) ..it would have taken an army of us to tot up a million quid.  

 

That number of zeros must go to the senior Directors ..who were responsible for the collapse of manufacturing and pension funds in this country.

 

 

Anyways up.. Yesterday evening I gave the LH front & rear wings a skim of epoxy filler ..which I hope is still OK., despite being lumpy and a few years old now.  This morning it wasn't hard enough to rub down, so decided to do a little more mechanical work while access was still good. 

 

To n' from the MOT station (..which is still the only time I've used the car in this country) the engine started just fine and ran at slow speed with no problem, but was running pretty awfully when I tried to pick up the pace a little.. Once through the zombie zone ..given a lengthy stretch of country road and no very-inconsiderate other car driver (..being in front of me ) the engine felt a little better, but she needed choke to get up there.  

 

This to me suggested either a blockage in fuel getting through ..anywhere from tank (which was in the rear foot wells when the car was bought), through the limiting one way valve and filter, through the old (unknown) pump, and into / through any of the jets or fuel cut off valve.  Or else these symptoms of poor running might have been an air leak directly into the manifold.  I might add that I've only set up the ignition timing statically - so that might be contributing to the dire effect.  Also., the car had no auto-advance vacuum when I drove in Slovenia.

 

So today I set to checking the carburettor.  Bearing in mind the car had sat for 16 years before I got her, and then has been in workshop hibernation for another 15 months (yes it really has been that long !). Then has only driven slowly around the houses in Slovenia, onto and off transport, and then (with auto advance now fitted..) the 25 miles around trip to the MOT station.  I really wouldn't have been surprised to find a swallow's nest tucked inside the carb.

 

I duly pulled the carb off and gave it an external scrubbing ..as there's little point in struggling to keep the insides clean ..when the outside case & its fastenings, and my own fingers n' tools are filthy.  I found a tray (actually a hot-plate cover) as somewhere clean to work on and catch the bits + drips of cleaner. . .

 

I squirted carb cleaner through each jet I found, but was a little concerned about this kinked rubber . . .

 

The tube itself was fine insomuch as it allowed air through but it was hard and not sealing well on the pipe fittings into the carb.  One pipe fitting I slipped a piece of rubber tube over to check that its jet was clear, and in removing the tube the jet came out ..very easily.   NB. After cleaning and checking the rest of the carb., I put this back in with Locktite. 

 

Took a few bits off ..,cleaning and checking as I went..

^ Before cleaning.. No swallows nor anything else's nest inside there. In fact the carb was cleaner than I had honestly expected it to be ..and no sign of corrosion anywhere (which is v. common with the motorcycle carbs I've worked on).  Naturally I checked the fuel level's float and its the needle valve. 

 

The purpose of the exercise was to clean (particularly to blast through each jet), to check things (for example spindle or other wear, and the aforementioned rubber tube) and to rectify as required. It was not to strip the carb into every single part for no particularly good reason. 

 

In checking I noted that the gasket face was bowed by about 0.010" (due to being bolted at its ends only).  I suspect an air leak through this to be the cause of the running problems.  I carefully redressed that with a sharp hand file ..as best I might without dismantling everything.   NB. There are no paper gaskets under this carb, only the heat insulator.

 

^ work in progress. The still dull gasket face is bowed so the file, laid flat, is only cutting the ends away.  Despite not dismantling the carb (where I could have used a flat surface to true it up) given time and due care to keep the file flat ..it leveled up fine and not twisted.  It then took a bit more care in cleaning to ensure that no filings were inside.

 

 

Satisfied that each of the jets were clear and that everything was now in decent working order (nothing has been adjusted), I lubricated springs, pivots and any swivel with aerosol chain lube or copperslip..

 

The heat-insulator spacer-gasket likewise needed to be leveled / redressed. I checked its shape for fit against the carburettor venturi and the manifold holes, and the manifold was smaller ..which resulted in as much as a hard 2mm step.  I marked this with a black felt pen - ready to cut . . 

^ Again, not wanting to dismantle more than necessary ..I worked it in-situ.  So, to avoid aluminium filings from going into the manifold / engine ..I caked the inside of the orifice with grease and stuffed it with a carefully folded clean tissue.

 

I did my rounding of that hard-edged step, which imo is a fair compromise considering I didn't take the manifold off.  Very carefully cleaned around the manifold, equally carefully removed the tissue with bits of aluminium filing stuck to it, and then wiped out the grease with more caught bits.  As you can see straight into the bottom of the manifold I'm happy that nothing got by. . .

 

While with the manifold I looked to find the drain hole (which is there to stop a flooding carb draining straight into the cylinders).  It was totally and absolutely blocked ..which made me question whether the black dot I was looking at / probing was in fact a drain hole.?  However a piece of 0.6mm wire started to find a way in, and with repeated doses of carb cleaner eventually poked through the dried crud to the underside. . .

 

That sorted, I applied 'Wellseal' gasket goo to the manifold to sit the fibre insulator-spacer on, and then a smear around the venturi outlets on the carb ..leaving it ten or more minutes before reassembly. I've only just pinched it down at this conjuncture, using a 10mm spanner held in finger tips just about 40mm from the nut.  That's plenty tight enough until the gasket goo sets (otherwise it just squeezes out).

 

 

Job done, and the carb is labelled to remind me to tighten it sometime. I finished early ..to sit in the sunshine and enjoy a cup of real coffee

 

Have a good weekend.

Bfg.

 

p.s. the epoxy filler on the car's wings is going off nicely thank you very much ..with the warmth of the day.

15,544 views

     

[Bfg]

.

Good'ay..

 

dull, cool, windy and wet today.. so when better to do painting.. ! ?

 

As of midday.,  'twere like this . . .

 

Unfortunately, the single pack paint I used before, which was an oil/spirit based gloss, takes a jurassic age to go off ..and at the same time softens the seam sealer Janez used. As a result the seam sealer / paint just collected dust and then looked shit (rather than autoshite). . 

 

..so,  as I yet needed to paint the passenger footwell and luggage space of the car - I thought I'd quickly go over this section again too, in two-pack. That won't hurt because it's likely to get the most big-foot trampling anyway. 

 

After sweeping up and then three hours of continuously sucking in vapours . . 

^ Looks as if its 12 foot long inside there, its actually about 8'-6" from the bulkhead to the boot shut, more if one were to measure up the slope of the foot well.  _v

 

It'll need a second coat in places because this new compound Hemple's Polygloss is not nearly as thick as it used to be (so I can only apply it thin, otherwise it runs).  But it's a job I've wanted to see done for a long time. And I'm happy to loose the dull grey and see this warm white gloss in there instead  

 

Bfg