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Moogs Motors - drippy drip drip

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1104 replies to this topic

#1081 ONLINE   gm

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:58 PM

looks good as new - nice work :)

there are captive nuts in the chassis rails which should correspond roughly to the mounting brackets, I think I just looped the ends with a bit of fuel hose and clamps when I removed the old leaky one - hopefully will be fairly obvious where it goes.

#1082 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:46 PM

looks good as new - nice work :)

there are captive nuts in the chassis rails which should correspond roughly to the mounting brackets, I think I just looped the ends with a bit of fuel hose and clamps when I removed the old leaky one - hopefully will be fairly obvious where it goes.

Is it in front of radiator or behind it?
1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1083 ONLINE   gm

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:21 PM

in front of the radiator (other side from the fans) just inside the nosecone, next to the horns
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#1084 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 04:40 PM

So some steps forward but many back.

Took opportunity to try and fit Pas cooler today. I couldnt see how it is going to mount so thought it would be easier to remove the rad.

This is becoming a common sight.
4cd1f65dbfae7035450727f9bae669f9.jpg

One of jubilee clips was fun* to get at 1a3904ed7826b4f9ddc2b7b81f752663.jpg

Once off the car I noticed that one of the hoses had been leaking and they are all past best.
9c89c793b32beeb0d476dd688b84f871.jpg82f1ddd7de84240d64e91355fe0a3bdb.jpgc95d19dae272b97c094fba4fcd830c14.jpgea7752c233434e150298cedf74819d0f.jpg
04e4fad0bb7c9e57b8d6e7c5c006161c.jpg

New hoses ordered - will need to get some new clamps as well.

Flushed rad whilst it was off 3cd44caec0be024d85045201947dcc55.jpg

It's not in bad shape
71efb3ee3ff61f1aadc20a4589a2a876.jpg

Cleaned up metal pipe and sprayed as last time.
68b9b9d2b0d4469e2813f8f6ea3510a5.jpg

With it all out I still can't work out how the cooler mounts. There are some captive nuts either side but don't seem to close to how it should fit.

Laid out
2cb02ea96578a0afe1a606cff3524502.jpg

Captive nuts
6434250816911e5384f664a9c1c0ae1c.jpg

Having a Google there is a dearth of pics online to show how it fits.

What am I missing?
  • WilsonWilson likes this
1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1085 OFFLINE   hairnet

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 04:45 PM

TUBULAR!!!!!!!



#1086 ONLINE   gm

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 07:49 PM

I'll have a look at mine when I get in from work and post a few pics - those coolant hoses are probably 5-6 years old so ready for a change.
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#1087 ONLINE   gm

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 02:03 AM

I suspect the reason there aren't many photos of this is that it's a bugger to take them in such a confined space :)

It looks like you need to move the cooler nearer to the front of the car, the brackets should line up with the captives shown here

IMG_1498.JPG

The cooler passes underneath the chassis rail and attaches on the wheelarch side of the rail, passing back through on the diagonal to the area in front of the radiator (blue line represents the chassis rail)

IMG_1496.JPG

The tricky bit is getting the open ends diagonally through the gap in the corner

IMG_1495.JPG

One end of the cooler attaches just under the reservoir

IMG_1499.JPG

I can't see where the other end attaches without crawling underneath but it must be pretty close by

As you can see, mine is pretty shoddy but doesn't leak so is being left alone for now :)

IMG_1491.JPG

IMG_1492.JPG
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#1088 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 06:28 AM

Thank you very much - your a gent. Will have another poke and prod today.
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1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1089 ONLINE   Christine

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 07:15 AM

Mmmm , scalped knuckle day then !


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#1090 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:34 AM

The sun shone, the rain stayed away and with mild cold I cracked on this morning

GMs pictures were an inspiration as I had been looking too far back to mount the cooler.

First things first off with the undertray. Bolts and screws are rusty but being Japanese they still unscrewed
c1697412172fc696c01aaec435df2b9f.jpg
8b7dc6a7737c44c57232e159c3d863ca.jpg

Located the mounting points and where it had to thread through the chassis rail. That was a fiddly job threading it through.
039ec010531a5ff0766bdb2ea628b03e.jpg

Boom - it fits. I gave the nuts a quick spray to stop them rusting . 91445cb3efcd7a325aa0f5e9673d0eb1.jpg

The cooler was sort of rubbing on the metalwork
4e5a050bb596cb5ed1c8c1b1a606240e.jpg
So improvised shield created
ed5214ef5c13a92dece55aa6dee5fc98.jpg

Pipes popped out in engine bay
00aebbcb5af298b2a03101910c4d6601.jpg
After some fiddling and putting pipes on different parts it is all plumbed in.
45eeeafa3c623849644fecfa3a05c38a.jpg

That looks like it will rub on alternator belt but when the PAS reservoir is bolted down it gave a fair amount of clearance.

I have taken to using hose clamps which are great - much less hassle than jubilee clips and less likely to over tighten.

The cheap hose clamp tool I bought hasn't fared well. Probably worth splashing out for a good one.

1eaca54c38c92b264938fa2a32bb2c1c.jpg

So just waiting for new coolant hoses before fluids (should be wednesday) and then test run.


EXTRA INFO

This is for anyone thinking of fitting a PAS cooler to MX5

Mounting points on front cross member.
Easiest way is remove radiator
Drop undertray including side wheel trim
Thread the pipes through the chassis rail at the side - bit fiddly and need 3 long arms
The coolant pipes will pop out straight under the PAS reservoir
Bolt to front cross member and also at side of chassis rail by reservoir
Connect pipes to steering rack and refill
Reattach radiator and undertray
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1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1091 ONLINE   gm

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:48 AM

nice one, glad that the pics were of use.

imagine the fun* you would have with the radiator still in place :)
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#1092 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:20 PM

My new cool hoses turned up today
79dcde4a8c0e6525cf24bd54736369d3.jpg

I was very excited as it means I could put the car back together before autotesting on sat.

First off to Halfords for coolant and clamps.

Back home and all hoses wrangled on, radiator back in. Something was leaking - tightened all the clamps but then spotted this

4a01e5a690112d41c04537591dcd343e.jpg

Everything undone and yep little hole IMG_20180517_102554.jpeg

After many swear words expoxy applied and left to cure
41f3b81ec9670378a3b187d525046c4a.jpg

Will attempt to get it all back together after work tonight
1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1093 ONLINE   Stanky

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:14 PM

Is there enough slack for you to push the pipe further into the silicone hose and cover up the pinhole/ push the hose on extra far so the epoxy is held in place by the hose?


1996 Nissan Almera GX (departed)
2003 Toyota Yaris
2004 SAAB 9-3

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#1094 ONLINE   gm

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:29 PM

blue hoses ?

what a pain in the arse but at least it's an easy fix. you could cut a ring off the old hose and clamp it over the hole if the epoxy doesn't work ?

#1095 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:30 PM

Nope sadly not. I am hoping a day in the sun will make it rock hard!  If not tape will be applied - it only needs to hold for saturday. 


1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1096 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:17 PM

Well the poxy expoxy didn't work. I think it was a bit old.

Of course I only found this out once the car was back together and filled with coolant.
30453184b6e0cc14a8ca124842a6658c.jpg

So all back apart and tape applied to fix it (getting good at this)
e7ba62d419253cb1fdfaae4e0c2eea15.jpg

Fill up with coolant and start car..... And yes ... Another leak appears a bit further up in pipe.

Nothing for it but all apart again and judicious use of tape to seal it.

After letting it idle there aren't any drips.

80f93864eb952f86dd808c1071289321.jpg

Took it for a run - the power steering cooler is getting warm and no leaks obvious there.

Fingers crossed that is it ok for tomorrow.
1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1097 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 03:40 PM

Crossed fingers isn't enough.

Day started well enough with this
76cc8b3121950029a80e69f8b53f8c8f.jpg

Get to Autotest and we have a nice bunch of mazdas.
afd661aa21d70e30e8a928d6d6ac50c3.jpg

Oh what's this
ba59a4fbe8a5d13aa37c0315e9b55f8b.jpg
Pipe still leaking so that wasn't a great start to the day.

Add to that about 2/3 through the day PAS started making funny noises it wasn't great.

Topped it up at NJGLeeds garage and steering back to normal.

Although by time got home this had started happening.
1f0441b3aa86c5fad2f77ef712fc5bb5.jpg

It is suspiciously coming from the PAS Cooler.

I am hoping that it is user error and I haven't tightened something but I think it might be a hole.

Rad will have to come out - new coolant pipe and then potentially remove the cooler or find alternative.

On flipside managed to get from a start time of 1.04 down to 58 seconds over the course of the day.

Only issue was that stopping on the line at the end was a challenge - might need to take a look at brakes sooner rather than later.
1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1098 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 07:40 PM

Not user error - cooler has sprung a leak and this was masked by coolant leak.

55c13962d0b42015a1c4f8c5a1e64d7a.jpg
8ef2698bd8fabc8a032e460af6ea789f.jpg
1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1099 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:56 PM

Ugh...this perfectly exemplifies why when I took the entire engine bay apart on the Lada, as soon as I ascertained that all new pipework and fittings were available at no massive cost from the factory, that I was just going to replace the lot. Just saves so much hassle in the long run.

Metal coolant pipes were the single biggest thing I had trouble with on the Cappuccino as well. Seem to recall a lot I wound up pulling off and replacing with 10mm copper microbore heating pipe, which I established was "close enough" to do the job. It was that or pay ludicrous prices for pre-formed steel.
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Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate. 1975 AC Model 70. 1985 Sinclair C5.


#1100 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:58 PM

Ugh...this perfectly exemplifies why when I took the entire engine bay apart on the Lada, as soon as I ascertained that all new pipework and fittings were available at no massive cost from the factory, that I was just going to replace the lot. Just saves so much hassle in the long run.

Metal coolant pipes were the single biggest thing I had trouble with on the Cappuccino as well. Seem to recall a lot I wound up pulling off and replacing with 10mm copper microbore heating pipe, which I established was "close enough" to do the job. It was that or pay ludicrous prices for pre-formed steel.

Funny you say that Mr Njgleeds suggested that I replace the cooler with copper pipe as quicker and a known quantity.
1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1101 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:07 PM

Especially as stuff like this is now readily available.

Link here

Fully copper versions exist too. The sort of thing I keep in the toolbox as it's a bloody lifesaver occasionally!

Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate. 1975 AC Model 70. 1985 Sinclair C5.


#1102 ONLINE   gm

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:49 PM

That sucks - but at least it held out during the autotest, did you take any video of the runs ? Ive only done a few but they have all been immense fun, I really should make the effort to do more.

That flexi pipe that zelandeth links to might be a good plan, would you need to make a flare on the ends though ?

#1103 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 04:02 PM

Didn't do any videos as they always look slow and quite boring.

A new mx5 cooling pipe is about £150 which is silly. So copper maybe the way forward.

Mr Tickman said that the one pointed out above may suffer from work hardening so probably best to stick to copper.

I can then use the mounting points in the front (and the p clips) - running hose from resorvoir and feed from pump. Mr Njgleeds might even have the pipe for me.


As a displacement activity from marking dissertations I took all the gubbins out again. Hoses stuff full and then rubber gloves for protection.

bb0b35d8ba30b4397a7b20f05d43e2a0.jpg
1997 - 406 2.1 TD estate
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1104 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 05:09 PM

Flare on the ends is probably a good idea - bit I never had any issues on any of the cars I've done this with. Just make sure you use decent hose clips and you should be fine.

Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate. 1975 AC Model 70. 1985 Sinclair C5.


#1105 OFFLINE   rainagain

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 10:21 PM

That sucks - but at least it held out during the autotest, did you take any video of the runs ? Ive only done a few but they have all been immense fun, I really should make the effort to do more.

That flexi pipe that zelandeth links to might be a good plan, would you need to make a flare on the ends though ?


I replaced a low pressure pipe on my OH’s pas system with copper tubing, I soldered an olive on each end to give the pipe clamp something to grip onto.





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