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Moog's Motahs - post track problems

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1387 replies to this topic

#1231 OFFLINE   Bucketeer

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 03:46 PM

so not the end of the world and a lesson learnt.


Shit situation but that's defo the best way to look at it.
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#1232 OFFLINE   3VOM

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:27 PM

Luckily I am sworn off roffles at the moment...

Twitches...
Shakes slightly

You could give them up anytime you wanted, couldn't you?


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What's the retail on one of those plumbed in fire extinguisher systems?


#1233 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 07:27 PM

You could give them up anytime you wanted, couldn't you?

Absolutely.... Just after the next one :-)
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1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1234 OFFLINE   dome

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 07:37 PM

Bollocks. Have a beer and forget about it for a while. Go and play with your 4 legged Rover


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#1235 OFFLINE   Dave_Q

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 07:42 PM

The patch bolt is the one with a patch of preapplied threadlock type gunk. You can see it in the HBOL picture.

Yours look like they were patch treated, you can see some of the compound left in the threads.

Just clean the threads up and put threadlock on (guessing that HBOL tells you to put it on plain bolts but not patch ones)
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09 Fiat Multipla

99 SV650

too many pushbikes (apparently)


#1236 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 07:48 PM

Thanks Mr Q - I did wonder what they were on about.


Rimmer's just list exactly the same bolts so I assume stronger thread lock then is used on those patch bolts?
1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1237 ONLINE   Cavcraft

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 07:57 PM

Not successful




Fucksticks

 

Ahh man, feel sorry for you there. At least as you say it can be welded and lesson learnt though.


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#1238 OFFLINE   Dave_Q

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 08:02 PM

Well, there are a variety of patch compounds the same as there are different threadlocks, so it's not necessarily that it's stronger, it's purely for ease of assembly.

 

The bolts come in from the manufacturer with the patch treatment already applied, it's dry until you tighten it up so it's clean and easy to handle, plus you get a controlled amount of compound vs a random size of blob with liquid threadlock.


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09 Fiat Multipla

99 SV650

too many pushbikes (apparently)


#1239 OFFLINE   Isaac Hunt

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 11:53 PM

Simple answer is no.
That sounds like what I have done.
Can't find any heads so will see if I can get it welded up.


Bad luck chap. Well done of the bracket repair though
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#1240 OFFLINE   spartacus

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 05:28 AM

You've already figured this out Moog I think but the camshaft is constantly holding at least two valves open to some extent. You've removed the u/s cam and all the valves have closed. Then you've offered up the new cam and tightened it down, it's begun to depress the cam followers on a couple of valves and started to open those valves. Unfortunately you haven't fitted the camshaft in the correct timed position relative to the crank/pistons and the other cam.
Next go you'll either have to pop the toothed pulley back on the end of the cam so you can correctly line up the timing marks, as if you were carrying out a belt swap, which you eventually will be, or use a dial guage to measure the cam lift in order to find the correct position.
Sincere apologies if I'm going over stuff you've already worked out or been told, I'd hate you to have another unsuccessful weekend!
From memory the head bolts are stretch bolts, which means that the clamping force they offer now that you've re-torqued them will be nowhere near the original, check in the manual, if they are stretch bolts then replace them.
Soz mate.:-(
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#1241 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 08:53 AM

Thanks Spartacus - once it was mentioned i assumed that was what had happened.

In my haste I had removed it all myself and not followed hbol process. Then I followed the hbol process to reinstall which is based on the fact you have followed their steps - #spoiler - I hadn't!

The timing belt was next on list. I had thought about doing it first but hadn't got the water pump yet.

Good point about headbolts. Will check a few get them changed. Better to find out now rather than later.
1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1242 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 11:01 AM

Ever since I have got the 406 I have found it glacially slow. Serviced it, had a check of egr etc couldn't find anything.

Ordered a new MAF as mentioned above -£30 from eBay. Arrived today
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Two minute job to swap it over. Always remember to swap the o ring
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Took it out for a spin and flipping heck it goes. Result and virtual pint for those that said MAF de170cba568a355c52f5315e6b9464cc.jpg

It feels like I have a new car.

Also in the post were the new rubber mounts for the engine cover. This quietens the diesel down a fair amount.

The old ones had the rubber shear from the nut. £2 delivered from hong Kong.

You can see the old ones on the end

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Screwed in
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Cover on and quiet again
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  • barefoot, Shep Shepherd, RobT and 12 others like this
1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1243 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 08:37 PM

Nothing on TV so instead decided to crack on with rover.

Got the crank times correctly first.

I have mainly used this socket set - I think it is a Screwfix jobbie but does 99% if the jobs I need
de289aad0d863f9658838e4d377563fa.jpg7b12c565128a566640d700d2d8368da3.jpg

Car up and on stands
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Wheel arch liner to come off
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Yum crispy. But just comes undone
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Sump supported
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Engine mount off
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Then drive belt off - will need a new one after this.

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Then timing covers off before reaching an impasse. The tensioner bolt just won't come undone. Even with rattle gun or breaker bar.

It is a Torx 50 head but won't budge.

Ran out of light and ideas. Gave up and going to Google.
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1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1244 OFFLINE   spartacus

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 08:51 PM

When you say it won't move with a breaker bar do you mean it won't move with you heaving on it as much as possible, or you stop because you think it might break?

#1245 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 09:17 PM

I probably was a little easy on it. It definitely is tight. I think whatever I do to get it off then it will need replacing.

Google seems to show that the tensioner pulley bolt is a pretty common one to be an arse to get off.
1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1246 OFFLINE   spartacus

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:17 AM

Get a length of thick wall tube on the end of the breaker bar, obvs if something breaks then it wasn't my fault...
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#1247 OFFLINE   Isaac Hunt

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:49 AM

Three things that often help, heat and force and impact.

Before you try more force, try some impact. If it is countersunk, give it a whack in the head with a hammer and punch, but not enough to close up the hex key sloct if it has one.

If it is a next head bolt, try the whack on the head with a hammer and punch. Try the whack on the side with a hammer and chisel to try and get it to turn.

Heat might not be an option.

Then try more force.
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#1248 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 09:00 AM

Will give it all a go when get a chance.

Another question

This is the timing belt tensioner Rimmer bros list for the car (and what I have bought)
4c77424d74bad98fd1f47e8e384d2fc7.jpg

this is what is on the car

b2e5aedf661d3238fbf9916834fc85bb.jpg

And in Haynes
34ad8f184e2a8b382dae43b04dbfc86e.jpg


They are quite different. Trawling eBay yields similar to RM tensioners. Am I missing something?
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1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1249 OFFLINE   spartacus

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 10:10 AM

Is that a torx on yours, or just a fucked up allen head? No wonder you don't feel like leaning on it much, it looks pretty shonky.
Sorry to be on such a downer Moog!

#1250 OFFLINE   Noel Tidybeard

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 05:34 PM

isn't the one in your pic a spring loaded one? and you use allen key clockwise to take off tension from belt then relase anti-clock to add tension to belt?


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#1251 OFFLINE   DeeJay

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 05:37 PM

All 3 look different.



#1252 OFFLINE   Matty

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:15 PM

Moog if it's hex not torx it will round off with too much force. Heat is always the answer get this shit with capheads at work all the time. Heat the head up cherry (if you've only got a blow torch this will take fecking ages!) As it cools crack it with a hex socket on a strong arm. The heat will do two things. If it's corrosion on the threads the heat will make the bolt expand then contract as it cools breaking the bond of corrosion. If it's thread lock the heat will melt it. Either way it'll piss out after warming

#1253 OFFLINE   Matty

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:17 PM

Edit just looked back and seen its torx. Even better cos they don't round as readily. Still warm it though

#1254 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:22 PM

Today I went to pick up my new MGF.

A kind gent called hairnet offered his services. When I accepted I didn't realise he was going to start the day in the south of England, before travelling up via Catsinweder to Hairnet towers before chez Moog.

The plan
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couldn't argue with that and thus plan went into action
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Journey was uneventful and before too long reached Warninglights abode in beautiful scenery.

Car collected and headlining fixed*
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Set off with just a pez stop on the way.
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M6 was chocka so went back via a roads getting give the new car the beans. It is a really composed drive and handles reasonably well.

On way home this also occured
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stopped at some lights and got a cryptic message
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I looked up to see
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Back home in about 2 hours the car performed perfectly. We passed a horrible accident on the way home. Looked like it had just happened with the car on its roof - hope everyone is ok.


It is pretty quiet at 70 with the hard top on and a lot less shaky than the mx5.

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So that takes me to 6 cars which is two too many - the mgf just doesn't have a role into be fleet.

It's already on gumtree and will be going on eBay in a day or so.

Any shiters want a great two seat sports car with a hard top, wave £350 in my direction and it is all yours.
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1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1255 OFFLINE   hairnet

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:25 PM

sell it without the hardtop for more ££££

 

much like the mx5 ones theyre worth coin

 

did you tell them about the seicento you couldnt get round on the a65 :lol:


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#1256 OFFLINE   hairnet

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:29 PM

And this is what he meant about Friday and sat

 

didnt take 9.5 hours either

 

7.5 if that :D

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#1257 OFFLINE   warninglight

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:53 PM

Good to meet you both today!

 

And glad it made it back in one piece, I was starting to count how many hours it had been since I had heard from you, with the previous owner's "ALWAYS CHECK THE COOLANT" ringing in my ears.

 

It's not the worst little car, but, like you, I'd be keeping the Mazda.


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#1258 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:08 PM

Good to meet you both today!

And glad it made it back in one piece, I was starting to count how many hours it had been since I had heard from you, with the previous owner's "ALWAYS CHECK THE COOLANT" ringing in my ears.

It's not the worst little car, but, like you, I'd be keeping the Mazda.

Sorry I should have rung three times! I ended up coming back and going to the gym (just to take missus Moog out in it - she said it was better than the mx5)

Provisional dibs has been called on the little sports car.
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1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz

#1259 OFFLINE   Bucketeer

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:17 PM

I'm loving the new Autoshite Laurel and Hardy.
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#1260 ONLINE   The Moog

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 10:34 AM

Dibs have been uncalled on the MGF so any interested parties feel free to send carrier pigeon or PM.
1999 - 406 2.0 hdi 90
1991 - Eunos Track beast
2003 - Getz





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