Exceeding BXpectations - Now With Added Renault 4

[artdjones]

Fantastic buy. I don't remember seeing one on the roads in the UK for at least 5 years. So is it a monocoque, how easy would it be to replace the grotty bits on top?

It's got a punt chassis rather like a 2CV,but with torsion bar suspension.A lot of the panels bolt on.That includes the rear wings,so it should be fairly easy to repair.

[Dave_Q]

RIP lil'Sirion, a truly noble steed that did sterling work taking us to a mystery lane in the general vicinity of Rugby to buy that Alfa 156.

[chaseracer]

It's got a punt chassis rather like a 2CV...

 

Closer in concept to a VW Beetle, but with the oily bits at the right end.

 

[Junkman]

I've been full with envy since you rocked up with it out of the blue at Chodmolestly.

Although my dream is a 6 Volt three speed with Quillery translucent controls and spectacle grille.

The GTL is way too good a car for me.

[Junkman]

it should be fairly easy to repair.

 

Yeah, right.

"Just" needs...

[Ghosty]

I want a 4GTL... preferably in a pale solid colour but I'll take what comes, as you can't be too picky with these things. A 4GTL is what will take the place of my 416GSi, once it sells and everything comes together, hopefully in a few months' time. Between that and my 416GTi, I think I'll have all bases covered.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Fantastic buy. I don't remember seeing one on the roads in the UK for at least 5 years. So is it a monocoque, how easy would it be to replace the grotty bits on top?

 

Aside from that bit on the boot floor much of the rest of the rust can be sorted by unbolting panels and throwing them away, which is definitely the best kind of rust repair.

[Cleon-Fonte]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:54 PM, Dave_Q said:

RIP lil'Sirion, a truly noble steed that did sterling work taking us to a mystery lane in the general vicinity of Rugby to buy that Alfa 156.

 

Happy days. I remember it performed amazingly well on the journey south, then I realised why on the way back when the almighty Storm Doris-induced headwind left me no chance of keeping up with the awesome power of a 2.4JTD.

 

 

It was a proud, valiant little car, the Sirion. Despite having led a life of abuse and neglect before I bought it, it never let me down, provided me with three and a half years of near faultlessly reliable service and took me all over the country without complaint (from the car at least). If I'd had somewhere to store it I'd have kept it while I stockpiled parts and welded it up but real life ruined that dream.

 

Sadly it was killed by its maker: not only did they build it from steel even the Alfasud quality control people would have rejected, they then priced all the parts way beyond the bounds of sanity. This was OK when there was a decent supply of reasonably priced parts elsewhere, but this had dried up in the time I owned the car, especially once the Daihatsu parts specialists started closing down.

 

At least I know its good bits will go on to keep other Daihatsus alive.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Although my dream is a 6 Volt three speed with Quillery translucent controls and spectacle grille.

 

When's the collection thread happening?

 

I want a 4GTL... preferably in a pale solid colour but I'll take what comes, as you can't be too picky with these things. A 4GTL is what will take the place of my 416GSi, once it sells and everything comes together, hopefully in a few months' time. Between that and my 416GTi, I think I'll have all bases covered.

 

Good luck, get yourself on the R4 forum which is possibly the best place to find one. They perfectly complement good all-round 80s/90s midrangers like the R8 or my BX.

[mat_the_cat]

Ooh, an R4! Do you have any more photos of the dash - there seems to be a surprising amount of warning lights for a basic car?

[Ghosty]

 

Good luck, get yourself on the R4 forum which is possibly the best place to find one. They perfectly complement good all-round 80s/90s midrangers like the R8 or my BX.

 

Sounds good. Junkman and I might have a plan to get one to pay for itself though...

[wuvvum]

Although my dream is a 6 Volt three speed with Quillery translucent controls and spectacle grille.

I briefly had a 1967 4L in maroon.  It had all of the above, plus a medium-sized hole in the passenger side front floor.  It was completely different to drive to a later 4, felt like it was from another era.  I did like the gearbox, especially the whine in first (non-syncro), but I found it hopelessly slow in modern traffic - the chap I got it from was obviously made of sterner stuff than I, he'd driven it to Le Mans the year before.

 

The one I'd really like to try (more out of masochism than anything else) is a Renner Three.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

Tuning four

 

 

[captain_cal]

Is the 16 four times the car of the 4?

[somewhatfoolish]

I briefly had a 1967 4L in maroon.  It had all of the above, plus a medium-sized hole in the passenger side front floor.  It was completely different to drive to a later 4, felt like it was from another era.  I did like the gearbox, especially the whine in first (non-syncro), but I found it hopelessly slow in modern traffic - the chap I got it from was obviously made of sterner stuff than I, he'd driven it to Le Mans the year before.

 

The one I'd really like to try (more out of masochism than anything else) is a Renner Three.

A candidate for the "cars I didn't know exist..." thread, the R3 sounds utterly miserable; when can we expect an LBC-tastic kollekshun extravaganza?

[Cleon-Fonte]

Anybody remember this? Where were we up to?

In the last BX update LHM was escaping from somewhere around the front subframe subframe due to a suspected leaking octopus, replacement of which sends dread into the most hardened and world-weary mechanics at the mere prospect. Fortunately the octopus was deemed leak free, unfortunately the leak was then discovered to be a T-piece further down the system which was definitely put in a very stupid place and definitely did require engine removal to access (the replacement part itself was a mere £1.20).

So the inevitable happened...

 

 

And since I had no desire to remove the engine every time a bit of pipework sprung a leak or a T-piece split I decided to do what Citroen should have done at the factory and move the pipework somewhere accessible. Further inspection of the octopus itself reveals it to be merely three T-pieces combined in one unit (see above), so at the same time I decided I may as well replace it with three proprietory T-pieces and some lengths of silicone tubing, thereby saving myself the £160 or whatever for a replacement when it eventually, inevitably fails.

And here's the end result. Much better, I think you'll agree.

 

In the next post we'll go through the other jobs I did while the engine was out and I had plenty of access.

[brownnova]

BXcellent! Looks like a fascinating project, I look forward to reading about it! How’s the R4 getting on? 

[Cleon-Fonte]

For some time the BX had suffered with knackered fuel injectors, however I'd held off replacing them as I'd have to change them again when swapping over to a Bosch pump from Lucas anyway. Whilst the engine was out and I had reasonable access to the cambelt side of things I decided now was the time to swap the pump and a cheap Bosch VE was sourced with a view to dismantling it, cleaning it up and replacing the various internal rubber seals.

 

 

BX pumps are pretty rare these days so this is a later 405/ZX item with a few differences, mainly surrounding the various mechanisms used for cold starts, although this isn't too much of a problem.

These later VE pumps also have a fair amount of electronic shit fitted to them which can safely be disposed of.

 

Otherwise it'll bolt straight on.

 

Before going any further it's perhaps best to give a rudimentary description of the Bosch VE pump's inner workings, otherwise much of what follows will make precisely zero sense to anyone not already familiar with them.

 

 

The driveshaft, driven by the cambelt, turns the feed pump which draws in fuel, in addition to the cam disc (or plate) and the pump plunger. The plunger contains outlet ports which deliver fuel to the delivery valves and onwards to the injectors. As the plunger rotates it must also move back and forth to pressurise the fuel, which is acheived by lifting the cam plate off a set of rollers. The more fuel is required in a given situation, the higher the RPM and longer the back and forth movements (effective stroke) of the plunger.

Fuel is metered by the flyweights and governor. As driveshaft RPM increases, the flyweights (driven off the driving gear) are forced open, creating tension in the governor spring which in turn operates the governor lever. The pump plunger contains a spill port (through which the fuel escapes) which is variously covered and uncovered by the control sleeve, the governor lever's job being to operate the control sleeve. Effectively, all the driver is doing with their right foot is to set how much of the spill port is covered at any one time. Put your foot down and the governor lever moves to cover the spill port, allowing much less fuel to escape; release the accelerator pedal and spring pressure generated by the flyweights will force the governor lever to completely uncover the spill port, stopping all fuel delivery.

It all sounds relatively complex but is in practice fairly simple and quite DIY friendly, the only special tools required are a set of £15 Bosch VE sockets, everything else can be dismantled with pliers, screwdrivers, allen keys and torx sockets (use of a vice is also relatively helpful).

Anyway, with the technical lecture out of the way I'll save the stripdown of the pump for another post to stop this turning into an opus.

 

 

 

[Cleon-Fonte]

Any hope of this being a simple re-sealing job went out of the window when I removed the timing advance piston cover and found considerable crustiness. At this point I tried turning the pump over on the driveshaft to be rewarded with no movement, complete pump seizure. Bugger.

 

Further inspection required taking off the top of the pump and the distributor head/plunger assembly, both of which unbolt fairly easily, leaving only the main body of the pump and its contents.

The advance mechanism works by forcing the piston to move side to side depending on fuel pressure, this in turn forces the roller holder ring to rotate slightly clockwise or anti-clockwise, changing the position of the rollers in relation to the cam plate and advancing or retarding injection timing as needed. With most of the pump's innards removed you can see the pin for the timing piston sticking up through the bottom of the roller ring.

 

 

I don't appear to have taken any picture of the rollers and cross coupling in situ so have this borrowed internet pic.

 

 

This is the cam plate that moves on the rollers, not only was the old one the wrong part for this pump, as you can see it was in pretty bad shape, with considerable burring suggesting it had become rather too warm at some point and plenty of scoring too. The new one on the left is the colour it should be. A good cam plate is essential, this kind of damage can cause considerable wear on the rollers and render the pump unusable. Fortunately my rollers had escaped unscathed.

 

 

The pin on the front face of the cam plate fits in the slot on the front of the plunger, seen below (in another borrowed pic, sorry) inserted into the distributor head with its springs in place and the control sleeve attached. On the bottom of the governor lever there is a ball stud attached which fits into the hole on top of the control sleeve.

 

 

This is how the plunger looks on the other side of the distributor head, with the four outlet ports clearly visible. In my case the plunger was seized solid into the head, however a good night's soaking in Plusgas and a few gentle taps with a socket and a copper mallet and it was free.

 

[Cleon-Fonte]

The next stage was to remove the roller ring. It too was in a bit of a state.

 

 

Fortunately the condition of this is less critical and with a fair bit of cleaning it could be reused.

With the driveshaft slotted out things only got worse. This is the cover for the feed pump.

 

 

And here's the feed pump itself. Three of the four vanes were seized and it was clear they weren't going to unseize. Rust had also eaten large chunks of it so even with unseized vanes it was scrap.

 

 

And with that I was left with the bare shell of a Bosch pump, seen here after all the rusty crap had been blasted away in readiness for final finishing.

 

 

And here it is with a Renault 5 carburettor for entirely pointless comparison purposes.

 

 

Next up, reassembly.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Before reassembling one of these pumps there are two things to keep in mind.

1. The major killer of any diesel injection system is dirt. It's therefore essential to keep the pump and all the parts within spotlessly clean at all times otherwise the pump will lead a very short life. Make sure the pump body and all its internal channels are well cleaned out before assembly.

2. The pump uses fuel to lubricate itself but it will take a while for fuel to reach all areas of the pump, therefore all parts must be coated in oil or grease on assembly to avoid damage or seizure. I used red rubber grease designed for braking systems, which will resist water but dissolves rapidly in anything oil or silicone based. Greasing the parts will also keep corrosion at bay if the pump isn't to be used immediately. Don't be afraid of using too much, even if you lathered it on the ratio of grease to diesel will still be quite small once the pump is working.

New parts for these pumps are readily available from Bosch and any number of diesel specialists up and down the country. Fortunately the only major components I needed to change were the feed pump and cam plate, everything else could be reused after a bit of cleaning and sanding. For instance here's the crusty feed pump cover from the last post.

 

 

Reassembly is largely just a case of taking the various parts and dropping them in in the order they came out, then bolting down the distributor head. This picture gives you a clear view of the pump's internal workings, showing (from right to left) the feed pump cover, flyweight drive gear and roller assembly, cam plate and plunger, with the governor lever located on the control sleeve.

 

 

The flyweights were then added...

 

 

Then it was just a case of re-attaching the top of the pump. The top, in contrast to the main pump body, was in very good condition so I left it well alone. Reattaching it is the most fiddly and annoying part of the whole rebuild as trying to latch tiny hooks or springs you can't see onto various bits of the governor lever is not all that much fun. This is probably why I didn't take any pictures in between bouts of extreme swearing.

Anyway, here's the finished article, which now turns over beautifully with strong 'compression' as the cam plate lifts off the rollers.

 

 

The pump originally came with an electronic cold start timing advance solenoid, but none of the wiring for this was present on my engine. I did try and find an original BX mechanical cold start device but naturally it would be easier to find a gold rocking toothed hen, so I've removed the cold timing advance system altogether. XUDs do have a mechanical fast idle device on the cooling system thermostat and I hope this alone should be enough in cold weather, the advance systems only really help above 2,200rpm and I'd never be doing that in a cold diesel, anyway.

Potential cold starting issues aside, this pump should work well.

[Cleon-Fonte]

22 hours ago, brownnova said:

BXcellent! Looks like a fascinating project, I look forward to reading about it! How’s the R4 getting on? 

 

Cheers, I'm glad my ramblings can be of interest. The R4's going well, but I'll save any updates on it until I've brought the BX up to date.

[320touring]

Superb work! Pity I never got to see this in the flesh during my days of meeting the GGG when I was working down that way

[Cleon-Fonte]

Aye, this thing's been consistently broken which has kept it from attending things. When the weather's warmer and the thing's back on the road I'll bring it to Scotoshite.

[320touring]

You and the rest of the GGG would be most welcome!

[Cleon-Fonte]

With the pump and hydraulics done it was time to put the engine in, and this is where it all went wrong. Engine insertion was fairly straightforward, about half an hour to locate the engine and another hour or two of attaching ancillaries and suchlike. The engine fired and then it appears the cam pulley came loose, stopped turning and inevitable valve/piston interface occurred. The XUD is designed to transfer the force of such misfortune through the valves to the camshaft and its bearing caps and resultantly the cam was broken up and the caps shattered (maybe this engine was just desperate to be a quad cam).

New XUD cam bearing caps are available but they need machining into the head, added to the cost and hassle of buying and fitting a camshaft I decided fitting a new head is the easier option in this case. Fortunately I have my regular BX parts supplier on hand and I took a trip to Peterborough to acquire a new old cylinder head. I took away from the experience that if you need a BX cylinder head, removing one from a beached example that's sat in the same spot for 15 years sinking into a bed of nettles is not the most straightforward or painless way to do it. Nonetheless, the head was eventually removed and brought north.

 

 

And here's how it looked after a chemical bath and skim.

 

 

Fitting it has proved less easy. Access is as usual appalling but the main problem is that the various fixtures and fittings on my car are all of a much poorer quality than those that came off the G-reg spares car. Whilst very little was seized and nothing rounded off on the older car, this was a regular occurrence on mine and working on things in the limited space available became a challenge. @chodweaver and I struggled valiantly to remove the head in situ but eventually came up against a turbo oil pipe that refused to let go, making it impossible to separate the head and block even though the head was loose.

You can probably guess what happens next.

 

 

I've been considering replacing my engine mounts with a set of wingnuts.

Once I've made space in the shed work will begin to put everything back together as much as possible, before the engine goes back in again. Hopefully I'll be able to provide updates as I go along. For now, though, that's the BX pretty much up to date.

 

[Cleon-Fonte]

Next up, we'll look at how this thing's been doing.

 

 

[paulplom]

What a bastard re the cylinder head. Top marks for keeping on, keeping on.

[The Moog]

11/10 would read again. Sounds like a right battle

[Dave_Q]

Fair play for tearing into the injection pump, I consider myself fairly brave at taking things to bits but have never touched the inside of a pump for fear of critical things going SPROINGGG and impacting themselves in my forehead as soon as a crack the lid. 

I suppose the days of just picking up a Bosch pump on ebay for £50 are now long gone and this is what life is like now for a dedicated XUD fancier.