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Joy of 306. Is this fixed now? Who knows!!!1!111


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#31 OFFLINE   Lord Sterling

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 07:49 PM

...
So, having planted his Corsa into the posterior of our 306, Mr Company Car was no doubt put in a brand new courtesy whip until such a time as his usual steed arrived, all mended and freshly polished, back on his driveway.
 
Meanwhile Nicola was all grumpy and in the miserable position that her beloved Peugeot had been involuntarily restyled and awarded Category-C status...


This.

I can truly relate to. As an old-car owner, we really do get a bum deal just because we decide to drive old cars that we actually like.

Well done Chris_KV6_man for saving this car if nothing else but to make your missus happy and return her a car she actually loves.

One day, I'll get my Mercedes back on the road. It just won't be very soon. :|
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#32 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 08:51 PM

Fantastic, how much of the £350 have you spent and how much will the Cat C affect insurance etc?

 

Including the curry I think the £350 has all gone now, but only about 16 quid went on crash damage repair. Of course, as a Cat C it's now worthless but it was pretty much worthless already.

 

Insurance continues with same firm now it's confirmed as roadable.

 

Waste of everybody's time really.


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#33 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 08:59 PM

Inspirational stuff!

 

I’m also interested in how you get on with the admin side of things.

 

Cheers Nigel.

 

The admin side of things has been thoroughly disappointing. There has been zero signposting, zero explanation, just a load of decisions reached by proxy. There was no report telling us what damage had been found, nor any estimate on repair costs made available to us. In fact we still haven't had it confirmed what category it was written off under; we assume Cat-C as otherwise we wouldn't have been given the opportunity to repair. If it was Cat-U I assume we wouldn't have had to repair it at all!

 

No VIC but we were required to have the car checked out by an MOT examiner, with a letterheaded repair report forwarded to our insurers.

 

The whole thing has been spectacularly pointless, and makes a mockery of "fully comprehensive" insurance.

 

If you're not returned to the same state as you were before your non-fault accident; what is point?


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#34 OFFLINE   TerryWogan

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 09:30 PM

Great save and good to see the damage was minimal overall. My problem with sentimentality is that it normally kicks in after I've sold a car, but not during ownership. Pain really. Well done for keeping it on the road, and not doing what my brother and his mate did when the Pug engine blew...

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#35 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:34 PM

This one goes out to all those who have spent time with one of these fine '90s conveyances.

 

A peculiar glitch has befallen it, and all I can reasonably do is make a guess as to its cause.

 

My wife phoned me to report that the big red "STOP" dashboard light of doom illuminated, along with an unpleasant noise which she has failed to usefully describe. She pulled over immediately and cut the engine, fortunately she was only a hundred yards or so from home, so I strolled off to 'rescue' her, or point and laugh as I found fit.

 

It transpires that, earlier on, the car had refused to start and that her Dad had been called to assist - only for it to fire up perfectly when he arrived. Of course, when I turned up I couldn't find anything obviously wrong with it.

 

We set out in convoy, me in the 306 and she following in the Audi in the hope of the former going wrong to a diagnosable extent. It behaved impeccably. Out of curiosity I pulled over and switched off, and tried to restart.... and it fired up immediately. Left it ten seconds, same thing. However, when I left it for 30 seconds, it spun energetically but showed no interest in firing.

 

A little while after that, it was fine.

 

My immediate suspicion, or hope, is a dodgy inertia fuel cut-off. Unfortunately, despite the combined might of the owner's manual and Haynes finest* I can't find the bugger. The handbook suggests it to be in the "left hand suspension well" and old Haynesy seems not to mention it at all. All I can find is the battery, the ECU and some metal.

 

Here picture:

 

IMAG9390.jpg

 

The rough area I expect to find it is here:

 

IMAG9391.jpg

 

I'm pretty sure I know what to look for, but not where to find it.

 

Once I've fiddled with that I can consider other possibilities such as injector, fuel filter etc.

 

Any suggestions, up to and including recycling or the consumption of Wotsits will be gleefully accepted.

 


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#36 OFFLINE   Felly Magic

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:58 PM

I know Ford normally put theirs in the n/s footwell behind the trim, but knowing Pugrat, it could be anywhere


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#37 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:06 PM

It's prob the main double relay behind the battery playing up
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#38 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:08 PM

It's prob the main double relay behind the battery playing up

 

Good thinking. Is that in the black box immediately east of the battery in the above image?

 

Annoyingly I won't be able to look at it until tomorrow morning, but a relay might respond to some switch cleaner.


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#39 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:20 PM

They are usually bolted to the back of that black box

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#40 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:51 PM

They are usually bolted to the back of that black box

 

Thank you. If my garage wasn't full of bits of house I'd be looking at it right now. Daybreak will herald further investigation.


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#41 OFFLINE   ruffgeezer

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:17 PM

No the double relay is under the ecu and either brown or black depending on the car's age.

Personally I would be looking at the crank sensor which can cause failure exactly as you describe. It is on the front of the engine where it meets the gearbox and usually has a torx bolt holding it in.

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#42 OFFLINE   ruffgeezer

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:19 PM

Looking at the pics again yours looks to be a really early single point injection model, 93-96 age?

In which case definitely check the crank sensor first.

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#43 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:22 PM

Double relay deffo bolted to the back of the black box on our 306 and the last one I sold

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#44 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:43 PM

Looking at the pics again yours looks to be a really early single point injection model, 93-96 age?

In which case definitely check the crank sensor first.

 

Another good point. A very good one, actually. Yea, 'tis a '95. Could a dicky crank sensor throw the 'STOP' warning on?


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#45 OFFLINE   ruffgeezer

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:46 PM

Unlikely I'd have thought unless it had cut out and put it on.

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#46 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:19 PM

Hmm. That has my brain thinking 'fuel supply' again... but then I don't know what the parameters are that cause that warning.


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#47 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 06:43 PM

Yesterday

 

I had a bit of a word with the 306 yesterday, told it that thirty three people on here liked it and generally said nice things to it.
 
Halfords Advanced on standby, as well as my trusty grey-handled BMW screwdriver.
 
 IMAG9393.jpg
 
Cranked it over and it started immediately. Absolutely fine. Left it for a few minutes and tried again - no problem. Locked the door and hid around the corner for a few minutes, and then crept up to take it by suprise... started fine. Bag over my head and cod-French accent to pretend I was somebody else.... started fine.
 
Drove it around a bit, parked it back on the drive and left it. Went back a few minutes later, turned the key... started fine.
 
So I put the symptoms down as a bit of elderly car Hypochondria and left it for the day.
 
Today.
 

Reassured by my confidence that everything would be OK, Nicola jumped in the 306 to go to work today.

 

Would. Not. Start.

 

How tiresome. So I gave her the keys to the 'Posh Car' so she could toddle of to work, and I took a deep breath and set upon the Peugeot again.

 

Halfords Advanced on standby, as well as my trusty grey-handled BMW screwdriver.
 
 IMAG9393.jpg
 

Turned the ignition, spinning sorts of noises but nothing you could call 'starting'.

 

Put my fingers on my temples and attempted to communicate with the car. I made a connection, and then started along what was probably an entirely random thought process.

 

Remembering that - on occasion - I've known a faulty fuel filler cap to cause an engine management light to come on, I unscrewed it, turned the ignition and then screwed it back up again. Now, I know that this was an utter coincidence, but this time extended cranking of the ignition saw it very nearly - but not quite - catching.

 

With the electrical / ignition side of things seemingly OK, I gravitated towards the injection ledger of affairs, specifically the, I dunno, induction manifold? What else would I call it? The bit that air goes through last before fuel is added and the engine noms it up.

 

IMAG9398.jpg

 

I thought I'd open it up and have a look inside. For a start I took the air filter out and gave it a good beating - but it was surprisingly clean. However, having never really looked at it before, I was a bit worried by the throttle body housing.

 

IMAG9396.jpg

 

It was all full of oil and guck, and this has been leaking out of it for a long, long time I also noticed that the wiring to the injector looked suspiciously mucky, so I disconnected it and cleaned it thoroughly with kitchen paper and switch cleaner, before plugging it back in.

 

Although there's no evidence of any oil actually hitting the deck, rather a lot has gone via that 'induction manifold?' and then, presumably, through the engine. There's a line that runs from the rocker cover directly to the 'induction manifold?' which is presumably for ventilation, but it seems to be feeding oil directly into the throttle body.

 

It's also been steadily dripping and congealing all over the throttle body itself, including an electrical multi-plug connector I spotted on the side of it:

 

IMAG9397.jpg

 

This was absolutely caked with vintage oil, so I gave it the same treatment as the injector connector.

 

After giving the surrounding area a cursory wipe over, I got back inside and turned the key.

 

A lot of winding, spinny noises but no engine startie.

 

Tried again.

 

And again.

 

And again.

 

Then, it suddenly occurred to me that reconnecting that multi-plug might be a wizard wheeze. Plugged it in, firmly.

 

Engine started perfectly.

 

I went through my earlier test routine again, only this time I tried to trick it into not starting. I approached it from a variety of angles, using subtly different techniques, and not once did it refuse to play ball.

 

So that's it. Did I fix it? Will it start tomorrow, the next day and then the one after that?

 

Gentlemen, place your bets now.

 

 


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#48 OFFLINE   Danterzza

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 06:49 PM

Of course it will, when has a French car ever been any bother.




Oh yeah....
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#49 OFFLINE   Dirk Diggler

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:36 PM

I'd have to take that to bits and dose it with oven cleaner; then improvise a catch can for that return line; why would it be trying to return oil so high up in the engine?

I'd say cause French, but early 306s really are every bit as good and tough as a post suitcase 205; and probably better
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#50 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 08:14 PM

It does seem an odd design, I can't quite work out what it achieves. Needs a new rocker cover gasket too, so that's on the job list.

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#51 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 08:28 AM

Well, update for those keeping score: This morning... it started perfectly.

 

I'm going to wager that the mucky multi-plug was the problem, and if I'm wrong I'll buy a pint for everybody on here. Bring your own dropping pipette to claim your share.


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#52 ONLINE   Dave_Q

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:18 AM

If the hose to the throttle body is from the rocker cover it's just a breather. Basically small amounts of combustion gas can get into the sump and pressurise it if not vented. As these gases can decimate local nun and kitten populations if vented to atmosphere they are normally fed back into the inlet, although often its further upstream eg near the airbox. Some oil gets brought along for the ride.

I wouldn't worry about leaving it as it is as its taken 20 years to build up enough to cause a running problem, maybe just clean the area with carb cleaner once a year to prevent reoccurrence.
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#53 OFFLINE   RoadworkUK

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:26 AM

If the hose to the throttle body is from the rocker cover it's just a breather. Basically small amounts of combustion gas can get into the sump and pressurise it if not vented. As these gases can decimate local nun and kitten populations if vented to atmosphere they are normally fed back into the inlet, although often its further upstream eg near the airbox. Some oil gets brought along for the ride.

 

I guessed that was what it was. You're right, too... perhaps I shouldn't be too concerned at the amount of sludgy buildup after 22 years! Cheers.


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