Mash Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Signed the petition DW Just read the articke in CCW and it's the most sensibly presented argument against this scheme I've seen to date. Well done, it makes all the right points.Good idea with the Volvo too. I've just had my Sunny MoT'd after being stood for 4 months and it sailed through it's emissions test too despite me doing nothing at all to it apart from start it a few times over winter.Enviro-bollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 How many cars does this affect?Year. . . . . . . . . # cars reg . . . . . . # cars remaining . . . . . . . "% of cars remaining"1980. . . . . . . . . . 1,495,000 . . . . . . . . . . 11,000 . . . . . . . . . . 0.7%1981. . . . . . . . . . 1,482,000 . . . . . . . . . . 10,000 . . . . . . . . . . 0.7%1982. . . . . . . . . . 1,574,000 . . . . . . . . . . 14,000 . . . . . . . . . . 0.9%1983. . . . . . . . . . 1,801,000 . . . . . . . . . . 21,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1.2%1984. . . . . . . . . . 1,749,000 . . . . . . . . . . 25,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1.4%1985. . . . . . . . . . 1,828,000 . . . . . . . . . . 32,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1.8%1986. . . . . . . . . . 1,859,000 . . . . . . . . . . 46,000 . . . . . . . . . . 2.5%1987. . . . . . . . . . 1,983,000 . . . . . . . . . . 69,000 . . . . . . . . . . 3.5%1988. . . . . . . . . . 2,163,000 . . . . . . . . . . 115,000 . . . . . . . . . . 5.3%1989. . . . . . . . . . 2,233,000 . . . . . . . . . . 187,000 . . . . . . . . . . 8.4%1990. . . . . . . . . . 1,921,000 . . . . . . . . . . 241,000 . . . . . . . . . . 12.5%1991. . . . . . . . . . 1,511,000 . . . . . . . . . . 277,000 . . . . . . . . . . 18.3%1992. . . . . . . . . . 1,492,000 . . . . . . . . . . 392,000 . . . . . . . . . . 26.3%1993. . . . . . . . . . 1,650,000 . . . . . . . . . . 647,000 . . . . . . . . . . 39.2%1994. . . . . . . . . . 1,778,000 . . . . . . . . . . 906,000 . . . . . . . . . . 51.0%1995. . . . . . . . . . 1,834,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1,144,000 . . . . . . . . 62.4%1996. . . . . . . . . . 1,944,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1,406,000 . . . . . . . . 72.3%1997. . . . . . . . . . 2,114,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1,691,000 . . . . . . . . 80.0%1998. . . . . . . . . . 2,247,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1,894,000 . . . . . . . . 84.3%1999. . . . . . . . . . 2,246,000 . . . . . . . . . . 1,977,000 . . . . . . . . 88.0%2000. . . . . . . . . . 2,330,000 . . . . . . . . . . 2,106,000 . . . . . . . . 90.4%2001. . . . . . . . . . 2,580,000 . . . . . . . . . . 2,383,000 . . . . . . . . 92.4%2002. . . . . . . . . . 2,687,000 . . . . . . . . . . 2,510,000 . . . . . . . . 93.4%2003. . . . . . . . . . 2,656,000 . . . . . . . . . . 2,484,000 . . . . . . . . 93.5%2004. . . . . . . . . . 2,607,000 . . . . . . . . . . 2,483,000 . . . . . . . . 95.2%2005. . . . . . . . . . 2,447,000 . . . . . . . . . . 2,330,000 . . . . . . . . 95.2%2006. . . . . . . . . . 2,336,000 . . . . . . . . . . 2,190,000 . . . . . . . . 93.8%1980-2006. . . . . 54,545,000 . .. . . . . . . . 27,592,000 . . . . . . . 50.6%To be honest, that's higher than I expected! There must be more shiters around than I thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Nearly 1 in 16 of cars registered in 2006 are off the road already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Dollywobbler, just a note to say the argument in Classic Car Weekly is spot on. Even my Dad thinks so, and he's always on the lookout for an opportunity to wind me up about old cars. I hope the petition is doing good business, it certainly deserves to and I hope there'll be enough numbers to make Mandelson sit up and listen. I hope someone has sent a copy of this week's CCW to No.10, it's crucial that 'they' see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollywobbler Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Wow. There's some stats I hadn't seen. Thanks Gareth!Thanks for the words The Main. We'll have to make sure that Gordon gets a copy to read while he's trying to avoid questions about Jade Goody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat_Pirate Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I can't believe you're still worrying about this pie-in-the-sky idea floated by the motor trade. Do you have any grasp of the current financial situation at all? Start here, and forget these daft petitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollywobbler Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 A fair point - the good times are definitely over - but surely that's all the more reason to tell the government to stop encouraging people to build up ever more debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volksy Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I can't believe you're still worrying about this pie-in-the-sky idea floated by the motor trade. Do you have any grasp of the current financial situation at all? Start here, and forget these daft petitions.This maybe so, however Mr Obama is considering the same in the US (Although he does state its to stimulate the motor industry rather than hide behind the 'green' issue to some extent), so give our governments propensity to jump on any idea proposed by the US congress, If it comes in there, It will probably come here swiftly after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 So government incentives might help manufacturers shift some unsold stock in the short term. What happens when that process is over? Bigger incentives to reward scrapping your 3-year-old car so as they can shift future over-production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtd2000 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Nearly 1 in 16 of cars registered in 2006 are off the road already? Think of how many accidents there are per year - that will get rid of thousands of cars immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I can't believe you're still worrying about this pie-in-the-sky idea floated by the motor trade. Do you have any grasp of the current financial situation at all? Start here, and forget these daft petitions.I agree, I thought it was just a bit of kite-flying from the government. However I've heard it'll be in the next budget so we'll wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 This is going to seem unfair to people who work in the new car industry, but perhaps too many cars are being made and some companies need to either shut down or become a specialist in something, cut back their model range, etc.The market is currently saturated and if the incentive is just given with no changes demanded on their part, it's a big mistake if you ask me - any kind of aid/subsidy should be a temporary measure whilst the car companies change their structure to become profitable on their own, we can't just prop up the car industry on taxpayer money for years to come just to keep people in a job as ultimately it will hurt people more in the long-run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lobster Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 This is going to seem unfair to people who work in the new car industry, but perhaps too many cars are being made and some companies need to either shut down or become a specialist in something, cut back their model range, etc.Not at all unfair, I think thats a very true statement. We currently have (and have had for many years) massive over capacity in car production. This needs to change and a good few manufacturers will have to dramatically slim down their model ranges and cut production to a sensible level and only produce the number of cars they can sell.Manufacturers have also insisted on dealers developing massive retail palaces instead of letting dealers operate premises that thay could afford to operate. A massive number of smaller dealers have gone over the years as manufacturers insisted on 'improving' dealer standards by building ever larger showrooms with increasingly unneccesary facilities. The larger dealer groups have (in most cases) raised huge amounts of finance to keep manufacturers happy but in doing so have now landed themselves with a wholy unsustainable buisiness model and are now really feeling the strain.The thing is, any scrappage scheme is just a sticking plaster - it will temporarily help out dealers and manufacturers short term - but there needs to be real changes to allow manufacturers and dealers to be able to have profitable, sustainable businesses at lower sales volumes for the future. And it seems at the moment that an awful lot of the people involved in new car retail don't understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 There's a big Nissan dealer in Birstall which neatly matches your description, it has been empty for a few years now. No Qashqai for you! I personally hate big dealers, I had to go to a Honda one to get a brochure for my dad and it was all shiny and fancy and full of handsome people in neatly pressed suits - quite an intimidating atmosphere to be honest, I like car dealers to wear threadbare cardigans and smoke rollups whilst looking a bit panicked.I know the old model of seperating your "main" range neatly into compact/intermediate/full-size family/executive doesn't quite apply nowadays, but a lot of niche models just don't need to exist and there's a lot of overlaps - why make the Ka more upmarket if the Fiesta exists? On the other hand, some manufacturers have confusing gaps, like Nissan and their lack of Primera-equivalent - perhaps it wasn't viable to continue making one here, but could they not import something? Baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lobster Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 http://www.am-online.com/news/story/Cit ... e/42899679 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 "The deal applies to Citroen’s C4, C5, C6 and C8 ranges. The deal will not be available on C1, C2, C3, C3 Pluriel, C3 Picasso or Berlingo First Multispace models."Thereby meaning it won't really work, as the cheapest thing they can buy starts at something like £13K. Nice work including the C6 though. Better luck next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lobster Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I would imagine it would be fairly easy to get more than £2k off a new C6 anyway. Infact, walk into a Citroen dealership asking to buy a C6 and you probably get £2k off, a go on the MDs eldest daughter and to sacrifice his favourite pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Perhaps it'd be a bit like when someone on here (think it was ChinaTom?) went to buy a Hyundai XG30 and they politely talked him out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 "Please, for God's sake just buy one or Daddy'll put me on the streets again tonight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 On the other hand, some manufacturers have confusing gaps, like Nissan and their lack of Primera-equivalent - perhaps it wasn't viable to continue making one here, but could they not import something? Baffling.The last generation Primera didn't sell at all. Weird 'styling' and central instruments (god how I f**king hate these on modern cars) -no doubt influenced by their new paymasters at Renault -did not help the cause at all. Need something with a boring image and fairly tedious to drive? - then the Toyota Avensis is the car for you. Mind you there is a new one of these coming out, I believe. The Qashqai replaced it as far as Nissan are concerned. I know they lost some (new purchase) minicab business, but thats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 "The deal applies to Citroen’s C4, C5, C6 and C8 ranges. The deal will not be available on C1, C2, C3, C3 Pluriel, C3 Picasso or Berlingo First Multispace models."Thereby meaning it won't really work, as the cheapest thing they can buy starts at something like £13K. Nice work including the C6 though. Better luck next time!Can't you get a base C4 for £9995? - probably with a rather crap 1400 petrol engine though.Citroen virtually give away their lower range cars anyhow, there was a no VAT promotion recently. They become much more expensive when you want to service or buy parts for one, from a main dealer anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Second part of the scheme is interesting, to say the least....£1,000 - to customers with a vehicle registered between 1st January 2000 and 31st December 2002. (There is no obligation to scrap these vehicles.)This bit sounds like a opportunity to get some part exs at below value, unless the grand is on top of whatever they are offering already? "Hi I have a 02 reg BMW M5 to trade in and would like to buy a new C6, please.""Certainly sir how does a grand for your crappy old Bavarian banger sound?""Great thanks, where do I sign?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 The last generation Primera didn't sell at all. Weird 'styling' and central instruments (god how I f**king hate these on modern cars) -no doubt influenced by their new paymasters at Renault -did not help the cause at all.One unsuccessful generation is no reason to completely pull out of the market with no replacement though, surely? The P10/11 Primeras before that seemed to sell well enough, they could have just dulled up the new one to win the conservative buyers back. Bit like the Sierra MK2. I love the Primera P10 saloon, such a classy car, if I had one I would be the coolest cat in town. Not the hatch though. The hatch can sod off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Case Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 The deal applies to Citroen’s C4, C5, C6, C-Crosser SUV and C8 ranges. The deal will not be available on C1, C2, C3, C3 Pluriel, C3 Picasso or Berlingo First Multispace models. Xavier Duchemin, managing director of Citroen UK, said: ““The Citroen trade-in deal helps reduce the number of older, more polluting vehicles on the roads.†All of the Citroens that produce less than 120gm, except for one C4 that comes in at a premium of £2500 are excluded. I hereby nominate Citroen UK for the Lying Bastard of the Year Award Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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