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1994 Rover 414SLi - 19/08 Update

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#691 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:47 PM

It's not the only pound coin I've got of that sort, I'll cash them both in one day maybe.

 

---

 

On the left, an original saloon seat brace.  On the right, a cut-down hatchback seat brace.  They're similar enough in the right places that they are interchangable with some jiggery-pokery of the hatchback piece.  The modified hatchback piece also bolts into the existing fixing points in the saloon body, as I hoped it would.

43045158635_38014fff3c_b.jpg20180809-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

With the modified brackets fitted, you'd be hard pressed to see what I've done, which is perfect.

43231788294_f31219c213_b.jpg20180809-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

For the seat back bracket, we had a look under the car and found that two of the captive nut holes are pre-drilled in the strengthening plate which made lining up for the other two holes really easy, especially since we had the piece cut from the donor hatchback to help make sure all the holes were in the proper places.  This was a pleasant surprise as this was potentially one of the more difficult bits to get right.

43231788414_9c826ccc26_b.jpg20180809-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Once drilled out, the bolts could be dropped through from the top, bolted from below (I hadn't welded the nuts in yet, since we were trial fitting) and the seat catches aligned properly.  Everything fell into place with minimal fettling, it was surprisingly easy.

43231787514_6c4dec2a17_b.jpg20180809-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The rear seat base needed two holes drilling for the captive nuts, only afterwards did we realise you can't actually get to the other side of this so instead the holes were made big enough to accept the bolt heads and they'll become captive bolts instead.  Alignment on this was also easy since there's cut-outs in the sound-proofing foam in exactly the right place and the seat base sits in the saloon's seat base location perfectly, probably because my suspicion that the shell is identical up to the rear suspension turrets is correct.

29012612867_06eed67839_b.jpg20180809-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I didn't get as far as welding in the captive bolts for the seat base today, and only three of the captive nuts decided they wanted to stay welded, so I'll go back and do those tomorrow probably.  I also haven't fitted the seat back side pegs yet that serve to allow the seat back to fold down without going all wobbly sideways, but again, that's not too bad a job to do and they look like they'll go straight in on the car easily enough.  However, enough fixing points were secured that the seat could be trial fitted and I can say with confidence that you can indeed fit a hatchback seat in a saloon body and it works rather well.

43231787404_d78cc0a5b2_b.jpg20180809-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


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#692 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:21 PM

Arrived at the unit a little early than planned today which meant I had some time to do some fettling before the windscreen fitters arrived.  They got delayed by an hour so that gave me even more time to fettle, which was fantastic.  When they arrived the only seat fitting left to do were the seat base captive bolts, which were quickly done once they'd left.  Everything was then given a splash of primer and red-ish paint to keep it all protected.  I'm not mega fussed about a beautiful finish on this because it's all covered up and I'd rather it be strong than pretty.

29027127327_e651c506bc_b.jpg20180810-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

As it happens, lining up the seat back dowels onto the bodyshell was really easy.  The four captive nuts for the seat back bracket also got painted, but my upside-down welding is so shamefully ugly I've been forced to censor it.

43965150441_0846a9d239_b.jpg20180810-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I explored the full extent of the rot in the rear arch and it really isnt' too bad.  I noticed a bit of a bubble in the textured stone chip on the sill and found it had holed.  I'm now undecided as to whether to replace the outer arch in one piece, or two pieces, since there's a substantial piece between the rust holes that's actually perfectly solid.

43965150401_824ac9216f_b.jpg20180810-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Finally, I didn't get my windscreen fitted today.  A windscreen for a Rover 400 was supplied, just the wrong 400, so a correct one has had to be ordered.  I've had this issue with other parts on this car, 1994 is the last year before the new shape came out so parts for this car are often listed as parts for that instead.  One of the fitters had been having one of those weeks, so this was just another one of those things for him.  Fortunately, I'm not in a mega rush to get the screen done, time is on my side for once, though it is slightly annoying that the earlier screen is more expensive.  No big deal, it very much needs replacing either way, you can just about make out some of the less bad scratching in this photograph.

43965150321_5742bc7303_b.jpg20180810-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

May not do any more on this over the weekend.  Next job is to clean up and underseal the boot floor, and replace the outer rear arch.  Once those and the associated painting is done, I can re-install the interior.


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#693 OFFLINE   chompy_snake

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 11:28 PM

Are you slowly turning the 414 into my old 216?
I think most of my old car that krujoe had has ended up on this thing?
Glad I made that choice as it saw a few R8's continue living.

P.s you're as mad as a box of frogs

#694 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 11:52 PM

Let's see, I've got your old bonnet, front wing, some of the rear parcel shelves, carpet, steering wheel, gear knob, headlights, a couple of small interior trim pieces, and one indicator.  There might be other things, but that's what I can remember at the moment.

 

This is all perfectly sane things that sane people do with their sub-£1000 car.


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#695 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 05:03 PM

Got busy with the angle grinder today while waiting for the windscreen fitters to arrive.  I decided to chop both the grot and the good metal between the grot out so I could replace the lot in one piece a bit easier.  It also meant I could find out if anything was hiding.  I was impressed at how solid everything was.  The rust at the bottom looks to have been caused where the inner arch (a bit of a mud trap) had rotted through and allowed moisture into the sill.  The bit further up the arch started where the arch trim plugs in so I will probably not drill new holes for the trim here and instead chop the legs off the trim and glue it on.

44053539581_d7b13c8d6f_b.jpg20180815-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I'm not used to the pile of metal cut out to address rust being quite this small.

43147524395_25194c41cc_b.jpg20180815-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

After quite a lot of trimming and checking, over and over, I got the repair panel as close a fit as I could and just before I was due to tack it in place, the windscreen fitters arrived.

29116615297_733e88d620_b.jpg20180815-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Removing the old screen was quite a battle, bonded screens do seem to require an awful lot of effort to remove.  In seemingly next to no time they'd got the old screen out, the surroun cleaned and the new one in.  Instructions are to leave the car alone for 24-72 hours, the longer the better, so the sealant can set properly.  Happiily, there was no sign of water ingress when the old screen was removed and no rust problems.  The new screen really does highlight just how bad the old one was, even with the marks from fitting it, the new screen is easier to see through than the old screen was at its cleanest.

29116614947_c7925f0be3_b.jpg20180815-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I'm going to leave welding the arch up until next week as it means jacking the car up for access, something of a no-no until the screen sealant has cured.  That's fine, I'm not in a rush, and everything is now lined up ready to go for the next phase which is mostly just putting things together at this point.


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#696 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted Yesterday, 06:06 PM

When I got the Rover, you may remember it had a couple of blobby bits on one rear arch.  Perfectly normaly for an R8, they all rust here.  Three years seems like a lot longer ago than it really is.

37408835555_1e19b6811a_z.jpg20150721-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I acquired the panel to fix this quite some time ago and have only now really had both motivation and time to get it done.  Not a terrible job, as it happens, and certainly less stressful with the cabin stripped since I'm in no fear of accidentally damaging any nice interior pieces.  Both blobs on the arch were fibreglass and it had genuinely stopped things getting any worse even though it didn't look the finest repair in the world.  The cause of both of these rust problems are easily resolved, the top blob is down to a design flaw where the legs of the plastic trim trap water where it goes through the outer arch and touches the inner, simply glueing the trim on would prevent this (and is my intention).  The lower blob is caused by the inner arches not getting hosed out, dirt and moisture then gets trapped in the inner arches, slowly rots through and allows moisture into the sill, rotting it from the inside.  It's a credit to Rover/Honda that these problems take a good twenty years to get to a point where they need repairing, the quality of the metal and the factory protection on these cars seems surprisingly good.  At least they do with this car.  Anyway, first job to fix this was to cut out the modest amount of rust, as documented last update, and tidy up the inner arch.  I had one tiny patch to let in at the bottom which took all of ten minutes to do and then the whole lot was cleaned up and doused in weld-through primer.

29177492767_86bb28f4dd_b.jpg20180818-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I checked the fitment on the replacement panel quite a lot since this is a complicated shape and I didn't want to have to try and remake it or order a new panel.  Everything appears to line up quite well.  Since the eye is drawn to the trim line and the sill-to-door panel gap, those were the areas I focused on most for fit and then massaged the panel where required to get it to fit the best with the other points.  It wasn't actually that bad to do, but setting the clamps to hold it without things moving proved quite tricky since there weren't a lot of points you could really hold it in place, especially since I wasn't joddling edges on this repair.

44115476711_732bbbdd98_b.jpg20180818-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Tack, tack, tack.  Wait for it to cool.  Repeat.  Gently tweak where things shifted a little on the door shut part of the arch, tack, tack, tack... this took a while.  The metal is thinner than I've been working with so it gets hot really fast compared to what I'm used to.  The welder seems to be having a bit of an issue keeping its settings too, the wire speed seemed to wander a little and the power level didn't seem very constant.  It has bad days sometimes.  That said, it was nice to not be chasing holes like I was on the Princess, the steel is a much better quality and much more predictable, even with a welder that's playing up a bit.

44115476581_cee2e5db69_b.jpg20180818-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

About an hour and a half later, I'd got the whole piece in, puddle welded to the sill rail and inner arch, and got busy with the flapwheel.  I was very happy that there were no spots I needed to go back over and could see it just needs a little bit of filler before putting the paint down.  Only trouble was, I couldn't find the filler and it was too late to go buy some.  On getting home I of course found my filler, and Mike told me where the spare stuff was, so that can be tomorrow's job.

29177492597_874f6179c4_b.jpg20180818-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I finished off by giving everything a splash of primer so I can see where I need to apply the filler for the final stage.  Once this is all in proper paint I can get the interior back in and then get the petrol tank back on.  After that it's MoT time, which it should sail straight through.

29177492517_c443bf24b7_b.jpg20180818-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


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#697 OFFLINE   320touring

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Posted Yesterday, 06:24 PM

Good progress with that- looks really neat:)
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#698 OFFLINE   junkyarddog

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Posted Yesterday, 08:10 PM

Nicely done.


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#699 OFFLINE   chompy_snake

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Posted Yesterday, 08:11 PM

looks alright that.

 

you have however just cursed it by saying it will sail straight through the MOT 


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#700 OFFLINE   Ben_O

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Posted Yesterday, 08:34 PM

Great work there.

I have a couple of questions about the carpet dye. How good is it and does it seem hard wearing?

 

The reason I ask is I am gathering harder to find parts for the Mini Cooper I am restoring and the carpet in it is tatty. New ones are pretty much obsolete unless an aftermarket multi piece carpet which I don't want.

I have found a brand new genuine molded carpet for the car but it is green, I need black.

Would you say that a black carpet dye would work well enough to give a proper finish that looks and feels original?

The carpet I found is quite expensive and probably the only chance I will have to find one so don't want to muck it up.

 

Cheers

 

Ben



#701 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted Yesterday, 08:43 PM

The carpet dye in the Princess, at least, seems to stand up well to being outdoors in all weathers and puts up fine with my daily use.  However, it is usually only me in the car and I'm not the sort of person who wears interiors heavily or makes them very dirty, so someone with kids and dogs may have different results.  Initially, the dye can leave the carpet feeling a little stiff - the Princess more so than the Rover, but the Princess' carpet was fairly knackered while the Rover's was hardly worn, so different carpets will vary - but after a couple of passes with the vacuum cleaner it softens up again.  No nasty smell hangs around from the dye.  You won't really know if the dye works until you try it, depends what kind of carpet it is and whether it has any sort of stain protection on it.  Going darker is always easier for a uniform finish and there's a lot of blacks on the market, some which may be more suitable than the Simply Spray stuff I used.

 

If you're worried about buggering it up, see if you can live with it being green.  The stuff I dyed I only did because I had back-ups to use so it wouldn't matter as much if it went wrong.  Fortunately, in both occasions it turned out well so I had nothing to worry about.


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#702 OFFLINE   davehedgehog31

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Posted Yesterday, 08:52 PM

That's great work Vulg, well done.


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Chods;

 

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1994 Peugeot 405 GTX 1.9 XUD Turbo


#703 OFFLINE   Ben_O

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Posted Yesterday, 08:58 PM

The carpet dye in the Princess, at least, seems to stand up well to being outdoors in all weathers and puts up fine with my daily use.  However, it is usually only me in the car and I'm not the sort of person who wears interiors heavily or makes them very dirty, so someone with kids and dogs may have different results.  Initially, the dye can leave the carpet feeling a little stiff - the Princess more so than the Rover, but the Princess' carpet was fairly knackered while the Rover's was hardly worn, so different carpets will vary - but after a couple of passes with the vacuum cleaner it softens up again.  No nasty smell hangs around from the dye.  You won't really know if the dye works until you try it, depends what kind of carpet it is and whether it has any sort of stain protection on it.  Going darker is always easier for a uniform finish and there's a lot of blacks on the market, some which may be more suitable than the Simply Spray stuff I used.

 

If you're worried about buggering it up, see if you can live with it being green.  The stuff I dyed I only did because I had back-ups to use so it wouldn't matter as much if it went wrong.  Fortunately, in both occasions it turned out well so I had nothing to worry about.

Perfect. Thanks for taking the time to get back to me.

I'm aiming for a concourse finish with the restoration so it must be black. i was just wondering if dying a brand new carpet would work well enough so that it just looks like a brand new black carpet.

They just don't make the carpets anymore and there is no hope of them being recreated so options are slim. I would imagine that the carpet type is the same or very similar to the one in your Rover.

Cheers

Ben



#704 OFFLINE   matt27

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Posted Yesterday, 09:13 PM

This repair looks great, the arch on our Coupe is heading the way this had, I need to tidy that up before it gets any worse!

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#705 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted Yesterday, 09:33 PM

Ben:  The carpet in the Princess is rubber back tufted, the one in the rover a foam backed tufted type.  I expect the Mini one is going to be like the Rover carpet, which seemed to dye better than the Princess one.  I understand the more modern thin loop pile types tend not to dye very well at all but you can use very light coats of black aerosol instead.


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#706 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted Today, 06:07 PM

I have been jolly busy today and the Rover looks almost like a proper car again.  Very first job was to put the all-important shiny 1994 1p back under the underlay.  Now, I don't want to say I'm a superstitious sort, but later on 20p fell out of one of the seats.

43417347914_389418fe1f_b.jpg20180819-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Bodywork was not going well today.  I had problems with the filler curing far too fast and the paint curing far too slow, so that side of things was rather frustrating.  It's weatherproof and tidy, which is what matters, but it's certainly not the standard I'm capable of.  I'll redo this after I've moved house, I'm not stressing about it now.

29198504417_d2318609b4_b.jpg20180819-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

With the bodywork sorted and the paint eventually dry, I could refit the carpet which was surprisingly easy to do, and the bolt in the back seat which was also very easy to do.  All of the boot trims and things have been reinstated too.  I do need to trim down the moulded boot trims so they fit the new seat opening, I can't use hatchback ones because the boot on the hatchback is shorter so they don't fit.  Rear seat was tested, and it's all functional, and being a 60/40 split-fold will no doubt be handy in the future.  The plastic trims that go over the rear arches to the sides of the rear seat need trimming in a couple of spots to clear the parcel shelf and I may need to make a small slice in the bottom to pull the seatbelt through since the seatbelt lower bolts are stuck pretty fast and I don't want to force those since I haven't got spare relevant bolts, nor a tap and die set of the relevant size.  Much safer and easier to trim a bit of plastic nobody will ever see.

29198504317_c5dc295f32_b.jpg20180819-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The carpet edges clip onto a pressing on the sill edge with some plastic edging that's part of the carpet.  Over the top go the Rover sill trims, and because of the screw placement the fancy higher spec chrome trims are handed left and right.  The rear trims are a plain plastic and look the same at a quick glance but they too are handed with a locating peg on the back that sits in a hole in the sill.

30268660968_24cd4f5fef_b.jpg20180819-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The centre console trim just slots into place and is held by four self tapping screws, two each side.

29198503957_de3fae3405_b.jpg20180819-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

 

The arm rest console is slightly more tricky since that's held down with four bolts you have to remove before sliding it into place, and then bolt it down, and then put the cubby insert back in.  I reseated the handbrake trim too as that had come adrift at some point.  Gearknob was screwed back on, boot/petrol flap release levers reinstated and the foot rest was bolted back down.  All of this helped the carpet sit much more flat.

29198503847_125fcdfc8c_b.jpg20180819-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

43417347844_276460cf0e_b.jpg20180819-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I removed all of the wooden trim from my old door cards and the trim across the top of the dashboard so I can strip off the old cloudy varnish and refurbish them.  This is a job I'm not in a rush to do because they can all be slotted back into place after I've fitted the doorcards, etc. very easily.

43417348334_2d00f59546_b.jpg20180819-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

43417348144_833efb7efe_b.jpg20180819-09 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then on to the tricky job, which was the front seats.  When I got the seats I knew one seatbelt pre-tensioner was missing which wasn't a problem as I had a spare on my existing seats.  It's a purely mechanical system on these and there's a little tab that you use to deactivate them, surprisingly, the one on the new passenger seat hadn't been deactivated.  Anyway, this is the two driver's seats, my worn out velour one on the left and the nicely worn half-leather one on the right.  I needed to undo a torx headed bolt that holds the seatbelt thing on, and a 17mm regular bolt that holds the pre-tensioner tube on.

43417348064_e933020632_b.jpg20180819-10 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

43417348014_f4df385401_b.jpg20180819-11 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

They put up a bit of a fight to remove, as you might expect of safety equipment, but once off it was a simple matter of bolting them up super tight on the relevant seat and job jobbed ready to keep me in my seat in a crash.

29198502707_9b0f681e92_b.jpg20180819-12 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

With that sorted, I could get both seats in the car.  These seats are an absolute doddle to fit even though they're incredibly heavy for their size.

43417347784_95ed3f4e7a_b.jpg20180819-13 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

43417347614_415f5302f7_b.jpg20180819-14 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then it was time to go home because I was very hungry, so I'll likely finish this job off tomorrow since there's not a great deal left to do now.


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