LPG for shiters

[cros]

I'm often hearing how bad LPG is so heres how it was for me. I've put it on a Minor, MGB, Landrover, TE20 and a Sherpa.

  No idea about injected petrols cos I've never had one, but with a carb its easy to fit in a day. I did the MG in 2009 (cost £500) and its paid for itself many times over. Its still as slow as the normal car, so no loss there. It does 26mpg and starts on gas even below freezing. Throttle to the floor it will pull from 10mph in top gear with no hesitation or juddering and runs much smoother than on petrol. Hard to believe but true.

 I used the biggest tank I could get in the boot and turfed out the spare wheel just like a modern car. Hope no-one is offended by the dishevelled condition- its used regularly for towing and proper stuff like going to the tip.

 

[the judge]

Nice one!!

[cros]

You're too kind.

[Alan_Green]

I've had positive experiences with LPG. When LPG became popular in the UK in late 90's I imported an LPG converted Mazda 626 bought from the Car Market in Utrecht. At the time there were no 2nd hand LPG cars and an LPG conversion cost about £1,350 min. But you could buy a 6-year old LPG Mazda 626 or Vectra in the Netherlands for about £2,000! So I did that. Was doing high miles so saved a fortune and no problems. Sold it when I went abroad but happened to see it for sale many years later in Dundee, so was still going strong.  Also had an LPG Previa and that would stall on LPG at junctions (fine on the open road) but it was only a cheap temporary car, so didn't investigate.

Anyone have any experience of these Nicholson-McClaren LPG Citroen Dispatch vans? (Silver ones are ex-Clear Channel. White ones are ex-Interserve). I seem destined to buy one of these.  Came close 3 times.

[forddeliveryboy]

I can't see much dishevellment! I've wondered about introducing gas into n/a diesels for extra oomph and fast, easy starting in cold weather when on veg. Isn't the shiter's approach to buy a scrapper with a gas installation in it and use lots of ptfe tape?#

 

Anyone have any experience of CNG? I seem to remember Volvo bringing CNG cars into the UK a few years ago, but it didn't take off. Since there's a supply network already piped around the country and in future excess renrewable energy will probably be turned into gas and introduced into the pipes, this would seem to make sense.

[Taff]

61.4 pence per litre, on average. & a station 2 miles from my house

 

Interesting

[gordonbennet]

We've had three, two we had converted we still have, a W124 Merc coupe and  Scooby Outback we bought last year for a song, wouldn't hesitate to do it again, i'm not up to DiY conversion and choosing the right converter is the real question....flashlube fitted to both, MB doesn't really need it but belt and braces does it for me.

 

We bought an already converted from new by the importer's contracter Mitsi Outlander 1, that hadn't had a flashlube kit from new and my LPG man fitted it for us and also adjusted the valve clearances which were tighter than spec (causing poor running) so possibly first signs of VSR valve seat recession.

 

The Mitsi never endeared itself to us, even on gas it was heavy on fuel (20mpg) but didn't give enough oomph or pleasure for the fuel used if you get me, it wasn't Toyota/Subaru durable/reliable either and main dealer parts prices were simply scandalous with poor aftermarket due to short model run, having said that it had Subaru style permanent AWD with a superb auto box and it could be hustled along slippery twisty roads at a ridiculous speed just point and it went there.

 

Wouldn't hesitate to LPG convert again, you can run proper engined old school motors for the fuel cost of a miserable modern piece of shit fitted with spunky satans gearbox from hell.

 

Currently wondering whether to get the recently bought  95 series Landcruiser converted,  i can't decide if it's permanent with me till it dies (will convert) or whether i shall keep it say three years and then grey import a late 70 series which is my preferred choice of LC...if i convert its an expensive job as i don't want the tank inside the boot, so on these it means replacing the normal 90 litre petrol tank with a jerry can sized one and putting the gas tank beside it just in front of the back bumper...difficult choice, the motor is 15 years old now, has done 111k which is sod all and its been well cared for, i've fully rustproofed it this week, changed every oil and cambelt, and it runs perfectly, should make very old bones but unsure what to do...suggestions are welcome.

 

I'm always wary of used LPG cars, especially those that people have had converted, why sell such a relatively cheap to run motor.

 

 

LPG prices vary, for national database go on Filllpg.co.uk...currently paying 60ppl bit its round 50ppl at Leicester and some other hotspots.

[sierraman]

It does worry me when I see a Range Rover converted to LPG, if they were struggling to afford to put fuel in it then I can see the rest of the car being run on a shoestring.

 

On the other hand, its a way to run a Jag or whatever on Focus money.

[gordonbennet]

For me part of the reason is i'm a dissident, i absolutely hate what recent governments of the last 40 years have done to our country ie given the bastard away.

 

They fritter the nations wealth and increasing the national debt to 1.5 trillion in 5 years is what is currently lauded as fixing the economy.

 

So, mild rant over,..

 

the less fuel tax they get from me the better, even if i don't make a 'profit' as it were by running LPG over my time of ownership the fact that they get far less fuel tax from me every time i fill up goes some way into doing my bit not to help them to destroy our country further.

[forddeliveryboy]

Mr Bennet, I suggest buying filtered, used veg for 29ppl and running an XUD-engined something on it. And looking out for good quality free waste oil, which can be had for 10ppl or less. My friend with the Merc C124 has a six-pot diesel bolted to the manual box and fails to get the mpg under 43 even though he often sits at 90. He is supplied with rapeseed oil by an Indian chain, for free. That's beating the system, a gorgeous car which cost £38,000 new with one of the most pleasant diesels ever made for cars (revvy and barely louder than the petrol), still looks almost new, running on tax-free, free fuel.

[cort16]

His car smells of chips/pakoras though, which could be seen as a plus or negative point.

[mat_the_cat]

I'm always wary of used LPG cars, especially those that people have had converted, why sell such a relatively cheap to run motor.

 

This. Nobody ever seems to sell an LPG converted car when it's working well. Although many sell them with the gas "just needing a fill up"...

 

Done properly it just works, simple as that. The problem IMO happens when you're doing something primarily to save money, the temptation is for corners to be cut. E.g. If you get it done professionally on a budget, the actual installation may be adequate but how much time will they spend on mapping the system? So your fuel trims may be out when you're in closed loop mode and worse, running lean at WOT. So you have a car that illuminates the management light on gas, and maybe blows the HG after a few years, you tell your mates down the pub that LPG is a waste of time etc...

 

We've got it on the green Discovery at the moment and no problems now, although the original BRC system was both badly installed and obsolete. And when a welding spike (I think) damaged the ECU, we had to use an installer as the software/interface wasn't easily available. We had a catalogue of bad experiences with them so went for a full replacement system fitted by me, which has been faultless ever since.

[Asimo]

If I did convert, I would want to get shot of the entire petrol system, tank to cats.  I can't see any benefit to dragging a redundant fuel system around. LPG Availability seems fine around here.

 

Are there any insurance penalties? Are LPG cars allowed in tunnels, on ferries etc?

[NorfolkNWeigh]

If I did convert, I would want to get shot of the entire petrol system, tank to cats.  I can't see any benefit to dragging a redundant fuel system around. LPG Availability seems fine around here.

 

Are there any insurance penalties? Are LPG cars allowed in tunnels, on ferries etc?

Not in the channel tunnel, they're not. Seems a bit odd but I noticed just last week that there's new signs warning not to take cars with LPG on. No mention of gas cylinders in campers or caravans though.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

This story made me laugh in 2008, it's still got one of the funniest lines ever in it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082088/Blast-All-I-wanted-quick-ciggie-Drivers-lucky-escape-liquid-gas-car-explodes.html

 

"They told me to expect a smell of gas after filling up"

Followed by

"I fancied a ciggie......"

Genius

[andy18s]

Just for the record,my Disco's lpg is working just fine............

[panhard65]

I have been thinking about LPG on the Rolls does anyone know a good convertor in the south west ? It is running on carbs so should be fairly easy ??.

[gordonbennet]

If I did convert, I would want to get shot of the entire petrol system, tank to cats.  I can't see any benefit to dragging a redundant fuel system around. LPG Availability seems fine around here.

 

Are there any insurance penalties? Are LPG cars allowed in tunnels, on ferries etc?

 

They always start on petrol even when up to full running temperature, normally changeover occurs within a minute or two, and almost instantaneous change when already hot.

 

Most people leave the standard system in, some cars where there is limited room sometimes have the standard petrol tank replaced by a smalley one, but i've never heard of a car system being LPG alone...must be possible cos fork lift trucks run solely propane.

 

One thing to be aware of is that LPG fuel gauges are hit and miss at best,  best to to zero the trip meter when you fill up and learn approx how many miles you can go between fills.

 

A 70 litre LPG tank will only hold about 60 litres, the filler will cut off leaving room for expansion.

 

Insurance has been no problem for me with no extra charges but some companies won't quote at all (as you'll find on the comparison sites when lots vanish...they will all want to see either a certificate of conformity (older systems) or be able to look the conversion up online (later conversions)

 

couple of bonus's, your emissions are ridiculously low, and your engine oil will stay clear for thousands of miles, very clean running.

 

You need top quality spark plugs, NGK now make LPG specific plugs, which i haven't bought, i run NGK platinum/Iridium, you an run normal plugs but the hot burn will soon eat 'em, and it take about 3/4 hours of cussing and swearing lying on your back to put 6 new plugs in the Outback, once every couple of years is enough, no cheap shit plugs for me.

[mat_the_cat]

couple of bonus's, your emissions are ridiculously low, and your engine oil will stay clear for thousands of miles, very clean running.

 

 

This is a RV8 after 140k miles running on gas, albeit with regular oil changes too although it's known for being a bit of a dirty engine. It'll pass the emissions test without the cats fitted - I removed them on the blue Discovery as I (wrongly) thought they were blocked and it used to sail through.

 

Good point about the ignition system, I *have* to change plugs every 12k...no leaving them till the next service as by 15k or so you start to get running issues. Someone had fitted Magnecor leads in 2003 which are still going well 90k miles later, so maybe they are worth the premium? I'd consider LPG specific plugs if they were a bugger to change, but I just change the normal NGKs a bit more frequently as they are a doddle.

[gordonbennet]

Why does it do you so much good to see a nice clean engine inside, can't stand to see poor neglected engines caked in filthy black carbon, feel sorry for 'em.

 

Funnily enough after i'd changed the Subaru plugs last year, and whilst the umpteen scars on the back of me wrists and hands gained doing it were still stinging, i realised that i hadn't changed the spark plugs on the Merc since it was converted so near enough 4 years, oops.

So bagged another set of NGK iridiums and changed them (doddle), could find no wear or deterioration on the old ones at all, must say the conversion on the Merc has been nothing but a complete success...my indy did the OMGCHG on it last year and despite him hating LPG with a vengeance he had to admit everything was as good as new inside and all valves good.

[brickwall]

Sam here on the RR. Seems to be fine, but I might want to service it and get it checked for safety as I've had it three years. What's the cost of doing this?

[gordonbennet]

My LPG chap charges me £30 to £45 to service the MB's system depending on whether it needs a new filter or not, he rechecks the calibrations at the same time and tweaks if necessary, i'm very lucky he's only 1/2 an hour away and i can go past his place on the way home from work.

[twitcherman]

This story made me laugh in 2008, it's still got one of the funniest lines ever in it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082088/Blast-All-I-wanted-quick-ciggie-Drivers-lucky-escape-liquid-gas-car-explodes.html

 

"They told me to expect a smell of gas after filling up"

Followed by

"I fancied a ciggie......"

image.jpg

image.jpg

Genius

 

"There has been a boom in LPG vehicles"

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082088/Blast-All-I-wanted-quick-ciggie-Drivers-lucky-escape-liquid-gas-car-explodes.html#ixzz3aEOziEyv 

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[brickwall]

My LPG chap charges me £30 to £45 to service the MB's system depending on whether it needs a new filter or not, he rechecks the calibrations at the same time and tweaks if necessary, i'm very lucky he's only 1/2 an hour away and i can go past his place on the way home from work.

 

Thanks. I should get it seen to.

[michael1703]

Good, this thread reminded me I need plugs for mine.

 

I bought a v8 RR p38 from scooters of this parish and I've had it about 12k miles on the plugs that were in it when I bought it.

 

Mine won't start on gas, it needs to be 40c and about 1800rpm to switch over, it's got a 90 litre tank, I get about 280 miles from a full tank

[sheffcortinacentre]

have had an F350 truck was great drove better on gas. I fitted kit. start/run on gas.

 

have it on my 5.0 5 speed Cortina same mpg as it was on petrol with 3.2 V6 5 speed low 30's. as above.

 

also run a 54 plt falcon ute 4.0 S6 4 speed auto factory lpg (no petrol at all) will do low 30's on a run  can't fault them.

[Lacquer Peel]

Is that low 30s MPG cost equivalent?

[sheffcortinacentre]

sorry yes.

 

the F350 was 5.0 S6 3 speed auto weighed 21/4 tonne (avg house was prob more aero dynamic), would do 70 mph flat out but cruise happily 50-60.only minor prob with this one was a flat spot on hard acceleration?

 

 Cortina 5.0 V8, 5 speed weighs 1100kg  70 mph is 2300 rpm.

both on simple gas ring systems with carbs.

although converting V8 to efi petrol, still with gas ring type lpg for now.

 

the falcon ute is the ford factory fitted system with twin lpg tanks where petrol tank was & appears to be a single outlet pipe behind the throttle body.

very smooth & responsive to drive.

[Junkman]

Gas is the default propellant for internal combustion engines.

Petrol was used as a makeshift, because in the childhood of motoring, it was easier to transport and the fuelling process was simpler.

Since technology progressed so that gas can be transported easily and the fuelling process has been simplified, petrol is in fact obsolete and only used due to fascist business interests.

Gas comes from Russia and the Wall Street is in New York. Nuff sed?

 

Technically, it actually takes quite some doing to make petrol suitable to work in internal combustion engines. Not only is it necessary to add lethally poisoneous additives,

but the engines have to be built to be able to run on that shit. One of the biggest problems is that petrol has to be gasified in complex devices to even become combustible,

which it isn't in its natural state. It's merely flammable.

 

Hence, to run an internal combustion engine on gas properly, it needs to be engineered to do so. For this, all mixture making devices need to be removed, or at least disabled

(and only reactivated in emergencies, for example when gas is temporarily not available).

Then the compression needs to be increased significantly, to about 15:1. Then the ignition advance curve needs to be corrected.

Once the engine is fully adapted to run on gas, it will run more efficiently, have more power, and have significantly cleaner emissions.

Those commercially available gas conversions of engines that are castrated to run on petrol are nothing than a foul compromise.

We built proper gas engines when I was still in Belgium. How does a Small Block Chevy generating 634 bhp while delivering 30+ MPG in a 2WD K5 Blazer sound to you?

Having said that, all OMGMPG is nonsense anyway, the real relative figure for consumption is Grams per Kilowatt-Hour.

 

Gas that's combustible in engines can literally be fermented from shit. How's that for renewable energy? If you think this through, you could create heat and electricity for your house

with an internal combustion engine running on your own and your beloved ones excrements. The only reason you don't do this yet is because the information that this works is carefully withheld from you and you are brainwashed into believing that there is no alternative to throwing money at big corporations.

[Lord Sterling]

I've had LPG on 2 cars:

 

 

I always found LPG to be a bit 'meh', nowt special. Both cars had similar set ups, though the 2nd 827 Fastback had a single-point set up so there was a small dip in power when switching to LPG.

 

I don't think it saved me much money to be honest, it served almost mainly as a second fuel tank.

 

The Fastback was twatted some years ago and spent its remaining life as a breaker sadly, the 827 Coupe has happily gone to a good home last weekend.