Milford Cubicle Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Are there any places that hire these out? I have nearly bought some very slow, very boxy un-MOT'd shite and would rather not drive it the 180 miles home on the basis of an MOT appointment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogweasel Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Buy one! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EXTENDABLE-CAR-RE ... 0312281548 Only have to use it a couple of times and it's paid for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milford Cubicle Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 Would be properly handy, but I don't have £170 to spare! If it works out cheaper than paying for transportation I'll consider it.Or I could just drive it home along the back roads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58classiccars Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Hi I wanted to buy an A frame, but I could not find out if you can tow a car with no tax or m.o.t, the police did not seem to know, so is it legel ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milford Cubicle Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 You can drive a car without MOT to a testing station you've booked a test at, as long it's insured.I guess you'd need trade plates for the lack of tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lobster Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 In theory, if the car has its wheels on the road - so if its being towed or on an A frame / dolly then it should be fully road legal. However thats not always the case is it and the Police don't seem to know / care...You can drive an unMOT'd and untaxed car to a prebooked MOT appointment but it still has to be insured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milford Cubicle Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share Posted November 27, 2008 I don't need to worry about it now, my chance to lord it up over Ford Granada 2.1D drivers with my superior performance got a bit pricey. £460 with no T&T! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Cripes. Those things do suffer their own SCENE TAX though. Still, way quicker than a 200D, although I don't believe any of those were imported - probably the only thing (bar a milkfloat or Motability scooter) a Granada 2.1D can out-drag.HSS do trailer hire BTW, but it's about a ton a day by the look of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milford Cubicle Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share Posted November 27, 2008 I thought a 240D would be one of the least desirable W123s. It did look quite tidy though.I'm still on the lookout for one. Old + reliable + good parts backup + veg oil friendly is all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 I'd say one of the most desirable myself - got to be the cheapest to run of the lot, plus the veggie capability. Perhaps the 300D is better regarded, I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 In theory, if the car has its wheels on the road - so if its being towed or on an A frame / dolly then it should be fully road legal. However thats not always the case is it and the Police don't seem to know / care...You can drive an unMOT'd and untaxed car to a prebooked MOT appointment but it still has to be insured.This is what I was told too. I'd be keen to make sure any vehicle on an a-frame was taxed, tested and insured 'just in case'. Incidentally I would imagine a dolly would be different as they suspend the front wheels so therefore not all four wheels are on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Bo11ox Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 This is what I was told too. I'd be keen to make sure any vehicle on an a-frame was taxed, tested and insured 'just in case'.Surely if the car's taxed MOT'd and insured you might as well just drive it rather than fanny about with an A-frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2_craig Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Two years ago I hired an A-frame from HSS for about 15 notes, have they stopped doing them? In hindsight I wish I'd bought one, would have saved me paying 39 quid to get a mk3 Fiesta towed down the scrappy in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortinaDave Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 A frame only legal to use for recovery purposes after a breakdown... otherwise its classed as an unbraked trailer and any car (even a mini) is over the acceptable weight.Mate of mine got stopped for it a couple of months ago and given a warning and made to leave the towed car where it was.Not sure if its endorsable!I only a frame a car that looks road legal.. something covered in moss or whatever and you're asking for a pull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2_craig Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 From http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/default.htm I have a motor home and want to tow a Fiat Seicento behind it using an A-frame. This car has a kerb weight under 750 kg so am I legal with this outfit? Sorry no is the answer. The law regards this as an unbraked trailer and you are allowed to tow up to 750 kg Gross Trailer Weight, not a car’s kerb weight. The figure you have to use is the car’s Gross Vehicle Weight or Maximum Permitted Weight. This is usually at least 300 - 400 kg more than the kerb weight. We have no knowledge of any car sold in the UK that has a GVW under 750 kg. The only vehicle we know that is completely legal to tow with an A-frame is the French Aixam small "car". This is a full four seater and details can be obtained from Aixam UK on 01926 886100. An A-frame or dolly can only be used to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. Transporting a car is, therefore, illegal. A-frames may be offered with a braking system that applies the car's brakes. These do not conform to the law as the car then becomes a "braked trailer" and has to conform to European Directives contained within the Construction and Use Regulations. It does not conform to the European Directive 71/320/EEC and amendments regarding braking requirements in any way. The use of this A-frame for transportation is illegal. It is still OK for use to recover a vehicle to a place of safety.Well, that sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortinaDave Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Its a silly rule.. they'd rather you hauled something on a rope! mentalist brussells as usual.In practice i think you have to be quite unlucky and run into a particularly evil plod to be huckled for it, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2_craig Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Just fit a roofrack to the towed car and hang a garden shed over it. Voila, plod-proof disguise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 From http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/default.htm I have a motor home and want to tow a Fiat Seicento behind it using an A-frame. This car has a kerb weight under 750 kg so am I legal with this outfit? Sorry no is the answer. The law regards this as an unbraked trailer and you are allowed to tow up to 750 kg Gross Trailer Weight, not a car’s kerb weight. The figure you have to use is the car’s Gross Vehicle Weight or Maximum Permitted Weight. This is usually at least 300 - 400 kg more than the kerb weight. We have no knowledge of any car sold in the UK that has a GVW under 750 kg. The only vehicle we know that is completely legal to tow with an A-frame is the French Aixam small "car". This is a full four seater and details can be obtained from Aixam UK on 01926 886100. An A-frame or dolly can only be used to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. Transporting a car is, therefore, illegal. A-frames may be offered with a braking system that applies the car's brakes. These do not conform to the law as the car then becomes a "braked trailer" and has to conform to European Directives contained within the Construction and Use Regulations. It does not conform to the European Directive 71/320/EEC and amendments regarding braking requirements in any way. The use of this A-frame for transportation is illegal. It is still OK for use to recover a vehicle to a place of safety.Well, that sucks.Eh, why should you have to consider the max loaded weight of a car? That's daft! Its like saying that I can't tow the little 3 x 4 trailer I'm sorting at the moment in case I fill it with several Chrylser Hemi motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew353w Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I have an A-frame, which I'd be happy to use to help out a fellow autoshiter. Email me if you want some help! I can also tow any reasonably sized vehicle, if that would help!Andrew353w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 This is what I was told too. I'd be keen to make sure any vehicle on an a-frame was taxed, tested and insured 'just in case'.Surely if the car's taxed MOT'd and insured you might as well just drive it rather than fanny about with an A-frame.Correct so probably only useful if the other car has broken down.Regarding th train weight thing it's another thing they could do you for if they wanted. It would appear most people get left alone but wrong copper/VOSA person wrong day and you could be in the shite. Maximum train weights are something I've always struggled with tbh which is another reason I've not bothered towing much at all. Maybe a braked towing dolly would be the answer?Incidentally there were whispers a year or two back of spec lifts becoming illegal at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Braked towing dolly is no good because the trailer has to be braked on all wheels.Train weight is just the total weight of the whole outfit. I think there's a problem if your train weight goes over 3500kg, I'm not sure what but I've seen it mentioned on caravan websites. Apparently some 4x4s can't tow very much because they already weigh close to 3500kg. I believe stock cars used to be towed to and from the track on a rope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogweasel Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 It's all getting a bit fraught really. I can't understand why A-frames are not as good as a huge trailer / wobbly dollies / a bit of orange string you found in the shed.I mean firstly you have a much more stable wheelbase, a trailer has the wheels in the middle, not as good as one at each corner, surely. Plus a trailer alone weighs 500kgs ++, so you are pushing your luck with most tow vehicles. A dolly, well they just look downright dangerous with the front of the motor perched over some piddly little tyres in the middle of it all, and as for string....The unbraked bit is the only gripe really, but as long as you aren't using a 1972 Marina 1300 to drag with, then it's not such an issue, modern motor with decent brakes put the anchors on and it pulls up still well within what is acceptable. And clearly as long as you recognise the limitations and stay within them, plus check, check and check again you can't really go too far wrong.I will concede that an A-frame in highly urban environments is no bloody fun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I've never used an A frame but I've used a dolly and it scared the shit out of me. It was under 3 miles and that was enough for me. I've done an epic rope recovery too, but I was younger then.I don't know for sure but I don't think you're allowed to tow on a rope any further than you have to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortinaDave Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Rope towing is horrendous especially if its with someone clueless. End up with the arse ripped out of the towing car courtesy of overzealous braking from the towee.A frame much better.Someone else doing it for you better still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogweasel Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Someone else doing it for you better still.Well, yes, but at minimum of £50 it could start getting pricey quite quickly. Primary reason for having the frame has always been shuttling grot between home (for timkering) & storage (for...er..storing) - imagine lobbing out £50 every time I wanted to move an old clunker less than a couple of miles. Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel bickle Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Completely with Pog on this one. Adding weight (dolly/trailer) whilst raising the centre of gravity doesnt make it safer -completely the opposite.Putting the wheels into the corners- rather than central -as a trailer -helps stop snaking too.I'm happy to help out -around the south coast for fuel/wine -as regie will testify. A frame, dolly or trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Someone else doing it for you better still.I will concede that an A-frame in highly urban environments is no bloody fun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Bo11ox Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 I A FRAMES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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